God’s Method of delivering messages, is it flawed?

[rational experiences]

Everyone who is not a scientist, knows that in their natural human living self presence, science the theories of, are thought upon, a research, an imposed human condition and a human choice.

The human does exist first, is natural to the masses of variations in all creative history that can be described....yet describing them is just using words.

So if you do an imposed thesis, a human who can think you would ask the reason to describing multi Gods/Goddesses versus One....as a teaching to self in science advice.

O one planet, one mass, one fusion historically in space, sealed in the highest female inferred, but not a female womb of space.

So first of all you are notified as modern science had, using male and female titles when no male or female self is present, it just a thesis either reviewed as a male human or a female human in the sciences, then self inference was dangerous.

For it constantly placates a human presence, when the human, natural bio organism is not there. We only live in ONE place, inside of water/oxygenated mass atmospheric life continuance. One place in one mass as nearly a water bio life form. Holy Water One place.

So variations to the teachings about One was stated to be holier by inference....do not break the seal of the ONE O God planet or else, you cause a reaction....like the Sun had. Yet the reaction was just a reaction as a state conversion.

Earth O the one planet was no longer being converted. Why the One God theme was the only agreed holy statement. For multi Gods meant science was reviewing themes for conversion and reactions to do it again by machines.

Why it was taught and agreed upon, by Christ Revelations, historically. And it was a male science agreement, for historic information quotes. When India got irradiated blasted with the vimanas/radiation causation, they stopped using their Temple to pyramid sciences. Learnt their lesson.

The Muslim science brothers however had not. Rome stopped their abuses of human life and pulled out from the pyramid Temple science historically. The Muslim brothers owners of the Temple science and pyramids in Egypt during that time, refused to have it stopped. Took over Jeru salem where the Temple circuit turned, meaning of jeru...to re own and operate that Temple science trans mutation science.

As a historic aware known reasoning. So life was still being irradiated attacked by the stone releases. Born approximately 570 CE (Year of the Elephant)

600 AD....outcomes, male adult aware psychic wisdom, the Messages/Messengers. The old users of the Temple pyramids of ancient times attacked in modern times same temple pyramid historic reasoning....as events of causes. Life in it sacrifice

• Loma Caldera (El Salvador) erupts, burying the Maya village of Joya de Cerén (approximate date).
• The Hopewell tradition (North America) ceases to be the dominant culture (approximate date).
• The city of Teotihuacan (Central Mexico) begins to grow unstable, as they exhaust their resources until their inevitable collapse (possibly caused by the Toltec) circa 700.

Extreme weather events of 535–536 - Wikipedia

• Moche culture ends in the Andes (approximate date).
• Nazca culture ends in the Andes (approximate date).
• The Wari Empire is established in The Andes (approximate date)

History in its male aware science/radio wave/radiation attack on our Holy gas spirit Heavenly body. It was known.

Why the Holy wars were fought to take back control of Temple ownership and have it dismantled. The reason itself.

Eventually due to life attack, which is descriptive idealism to being a God war. Meaning radiation that is released out of the stone seal, arises out of the ground, is cooled in the bio life using the water/oxygen...the radiation unnaturally cools at the ground state. Involved in atmospheric conditions also...what is falling out.

To have the human life bio body cell cut in metal radiation conditions that gave the Christ Revelations symbolism such as swords or axes. Why it is difficult to determine if an actual human war was being waged....or if the documents were quoting, the bio life was being "metallic irradiated implanted attacked" as a radiation whipping/cutting effect.

Animals attacked in the UFO phenomena today exhibit that cause. When I was irradiated it felt like my legs were being cut and whipped. I saw black flashings emerge. My ankles only swelled. Only once in that attack did I bleed unnaturally as an activated instant cell change (from my womb). A human living experience.

How do you convince a scientist that he is wrong, when he quotes that radiation began life, when we were taught that if not for the Immaculate not burning gases, we would not even own a life. How the relativity of scientific evidence was once taught....a radiating body conditions eventually kills us, ages our cells and forces the life to die.

The relativity of a scientific observed human teaching, and thesis....a warning actually to self denying self that no human is any God.

 

[Trailblazer]

Even his pen is resplendent. Does it shine in dark? To what heights can ego go!
What I see is only that your Iranian preacher wants to avoid giving any proof for himself or his Allah. It may have worked with Iranian people 200 years ago, it will not work with educated people of 21st Century.
Yes, I know. To see the Emperor's new clothes I have to get my nose cut.
Yes, I would not be satisfied with your quotes from what your Iranian preacher had written or what his son and great grandson tried to explain.

Baha'u'llah was not talking about Himself in that passage, He was talking about God, the Pen of God.

We know that if we look at the context:
"Thus hath it been ordained by the all-glorious and resplendent Pen…”
Baha'u'llah was not God so He could not ordain anything so we know the passage is about God.

 

[Jos]

I cannot post all the non-vague prophecies on this forum, but I will post you one example and explain why it is not vague. Then maybe later I can post some others if you are still interested.

There are so many prophecies but Micah 7:12 is a good example of a prophecy that is not vague..

Please note that Baha’u’llah had no control over His own destiny for the last 40 years of His Life after He declared His mission because He was deemed a prisoner of the government He was banished and exiled from place to place. The following prophecy was fulfilled by these exiles and banishments.

Map of Baháʼu'lláh's banishments

View attachment 43020

Micah 7:12 In that day also he shall come even to thee from Assyria, and from the fortified cities, and from the fortress even to the river, and from sea to sea, and from mountain to mountain.

He shall come from Assyria: At that time Assyria was a large area. Baha’u’llah and His family lived in the part that was Persia, now Iran, in the city of Tihran.

and from the fortified cities: Baha’u’llah was banished from city to city: After being released from the Black Pit dungeon in Tihran in 1852, His family and companions had only a short time before being sent to the fortified city of Baghdad. While living in Baghdad, He gained such a large following that the enemies where shocked. Right away He was banished again, this time to the fortified city of Istanbul.

The Governor of the city refused many times to fulfill the orders that he received to banish Him again. Finally forced to follow orders, Baha’u’llah was banished again to the fortified city of Adrianople. He was honored and praised, and shown respect everywhere, until He was finally sent to the most horrific of all places, the fortress of Akka, where it was expected that He would succumb to the terrible conditions.

and from the fortress even to the river: It was while in Baghdad that the Tigris river became a special place, as Baha’u’llah crossed it to the Ridvan Garden. April 21, 1863 was the fulfilment of prophecy, as that was when Baha’u’llah declared to those around Him His Station as the Manifestation of God.

and from sea to sea: After His banishment in Baghdad, His exile was by way of the Black Sea. Still a prisoner He crossed the Black Sea from Sinope on His way to Constantinople. After the banishment in Adrianople, He crossed the Mediterranean Sea from Gallipolis in Turkey, embarking at Alexandria, Egypt, then on to the fortress of 'Akka, the most desolate of cities.

and from mountain to mountain: The time in Baghdad was turbulent with opposition. To protect His family and companions Baha’u’llah went to the Kurdistan mountains. There He lived in poverty, but the area was magnetized by His presence. After two years, He was persuaded to return to Baghdad.

The other mountain was in Israel, Mount Carmel, where He had docked before His final journey to Akka. Later He had a chance to return to Mount Carmel, to pitch His tent. Here He wrote the Tablet Of Carmel, surrounded by pilgrims looking for the return of Christ to descend from heaven. Mount Carmel is the headquarters of the Baha’i Faith.

From: William Sears, Thief in the Night

It is vague in who it is referring to and also vague in the areas it references apart from Assyria like the seas and fortresses, those areas should have specific names and another thing is that the Jews have a different interpretation of that passage.

 

[Trailblazer]

It is vague in who it is referring to and also vague in the areas it references apart from Assyria like the seas and fortresses, those areas should have specific names and another thing is that the Jews have a different interpretation of that passage.

Jews can have a different interpretation of that passage, but that does not mean their interpretation is correct.
Besides, it is not about what one prophecy means, we have to look at all the prophecies and if they all point to one man, the Jews will have to explain why.

Bible prophecies do not name the person they refer to, that is not how they are written.
If the man to whom the prophecies refer that will come in the future has not been named yet, how could the prophecy name him?

Revelation 2:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

Revelation 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

Bible prophecies also do not name places with specific names, although sometimes they do:

Isaiah 35:1-2 The wilderness and the solitary place shall be glad for them; and the desert shall rejoice, and blossom as the rose. It shall blossom abundantly, and rejoice even with joy and singing: the glory of Lebanon shall be given unto it, the excellency of Carmel and Sharon, they shall see the glory of the LORD, and the excellency of our God.

"In that same year (1890) Bahá’u’lláh’s tent, the “Tabernacle of Glory,” was raised on Mt. Carmel, “the Hill of God and His Vineyard,” the home of Elijah, extolled by Isaiah as the “mountain of the Lord,” to which “all nations shall flow.” Four times He visited Haifa, His last visit being no less than three months long. In the course of one of these visits, when His tent was pitched in the vicinity of the Carmelite Monastery, He, the “Lord of the Vineyard,” revealed the Tablet of Carmel, remarkable for its allusions and prophecies. On another occasion He pointed out Himself to ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, as He stood on the slopes of that mountain, the site which was to serve as the permanent resting-place of the Báb, and on which a befitting mausoleum was later to be erected." (God Passes By, p. 194)

Micah 7:14 Feed thy people with thy rod, the flock of thine heritage, which dwell solitarily in the wood, in the midst of Carmel.

My records showed that when Bahá’u’lláh was released from captivity in the final years of his life, he pitched his tent in a small wood in the midst of Carmel. Seated in that tiny clump of cypress trees on the side of that stony, barren mountain, Bahá’u’lláh pointed out the spot where the Shrine of the Báb, his herald, should be erected. From there, he poured out his teachings to his followers. He fed his people and his flock with his words of love and kindness:

http://bahai-library.com/pdf/s/sears_thief_night.pdf

 

[ppp]

That is true, logically speaking. I mean I cannot expect to drive to the grocery store in a car unless I have a car.

Which is the best type of speaking.

If you talk about God as if He is real what am I supposed to think?

If I ever do so, I'll let you know. ‍

Have you ever noticed how much time atheists spend talking about the hypothetical god?

Yeah! Sure have. Always loved folklore and mythology. In my primary school library, there was a 16ish volume set of what the editor considered to be the world's most significant mythologies. Read through them at least a dozen time. That interest branched towards two types of modern folklore: world religions and sf/fantasy I talk spend a lot of time talking about the characters, themes and archetypes of both.

What I often say when I observe this phenomenon is that If I was an atheist I would not be talking about god; I would be off sunning myself on a beach somewhere.

Are you not allowed to sun yourself on a beach somewhere as a theist?

That reminds me of some lines from a favorite movie of mine.
It is funny while at the same time it is not funny.... No offense, but instead I am here with you.

I'm the one with the scotch. Guess that means you are the... other guy. But hey! Cheer up. At least its not the last legal drug anymore!

 

[Jos]

Jews can have a different interpretation of that passage, but that does not mean their interpretation is correct.

That's true but I think the Jews would probably know more about their prophecies than everyone else and that they would have the authority regarding how to interpret it. I mean you could be right and the Jews could be misinterpreting it but I think they should know best how to interpret their prophecies.

Besides, it is not about what one prophecy means, we have to look at all the prophecies and if they all point to one man, the Jews will have to explain why.

Bible prophecies do not name the person they refer to, that is not how they are written.
If the man to whom the prophecies refer that will come in the future has not been named yet, how could the prophecy name him?

Why can't prophecies be specific? Wouldn't a prophecy be more trustworthy if it specifically detailed and named who they were referring to rather than having people guess and attempt to interpret what it means? Specificity would clear up all the confusion surrounding prophecies.

 

[Trailblazer]

Are you not allowed to sun yourself on a beach somewhere as a theist?

I am allowed, but I would never have time.

I'm the one with the scotch. Guess that means you are the... other guy. But hey! Cheer up. At least its not the last legal drug anymore!

Yes, I am the moron pushing God.
But I am also the guy with the scotch who is in the bar instead of with in bed right now with a woman who, if you make her laugh, you got a life, because I could be sunning myself on a beach, but instead I am here with you.

No, it's not the last legal drug, not where I live. I live in Washington State where the other one is also legal now, and there is a store right down on the corner. That is where I should be, but instead I am here with you.

 

[ppp]

I am allowed, but I would never have time.

And you would have the time if you were an atheist? Please dish!

 

[Trailblazer]

And you would have the time if you were an atheist? Please dish!

If I was an atheist I would have all kinds of time.
In fact, if I went back to being a nonplussed Baha'i I would have all kinds of time.
My problem is that I take God and the Baha'i Faith very seriously.......

And now you opened the door to more lines from the movie As Good as It Gets

I can't get back to my old life. She's evicted me from my life!...

Melvin Udall: I can't get back to my old life. She's evicted me from my life!
Simon Bishop: Did you really like it all that much?

After that Melvin says "Well it was better than this!"

Granted, I cannot remember what my life was like before the Baha'i Faith evicted me from my life almost 8 years ago, but I think it was better than this.... However, my afterlife will be much better than it would have been had I remained in my old life.

 

[ppp]

If I was an atheist I would have all kinds of time.
In fact, if I went back to being a nonplussed Baha'i I would have all kinds of time.
My problem is that I take God and the Baha'i Faith very seriously.....

Oh. Well there has nothing to do with atheists. Just you.

 

[Trailblazer]

Oh. Well there has nothing to do with atheists. Just you.

True.

 

[Trailblazer]

That's true but I think the Jews would probably know more about their prophecies than everyone else and that they would have the authority regarding how to interpret it. I mean you could be right and the Jews could be misinterpreting it but I think they should know best how to interpret their prophecies.

I disagree that the Jews would know more about their prophecies than everyone else and that they would have the authority regarding how to interpret them. I do not believe that they know how to interpret them because if they did they would have recognized Jesus and Baha'u'llah. Moreover, nobody gave the Jews any authority to interpret those prophecies.

All humans have their interpretations and many interpretations might be correct even if they differ, or they could be incorrect. The reason there are so many sects of Judaism and Christianity, indeed of all the older religions, is because of the different interpretations of scripture among the followers. How can we ever know which interpretation is correct or how correct they are? This brings to mind the following passage:

“Know assuredly that just as thou firmly believest that the Word of God, exalted be His glory, endureth for ever, thou must, likewise, believe with undoubting faith that its meaning can never be exhausted. They who are its appointed interpreters, they whose hearts are the repositories of its secrets, are, however, the only ones who can comprehend its manifold wisdom. Whoso, while reading the Sacred Scriptures, is tempted to choose therefrom whatever may suit him with which to challenge the authority of the Representative of God among men, is, indeed, as one dead, though to outward seeming he may walk and converse with his neighbors, and share with them their food and their drink.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 175-176

I believe that Baha’u’llah was the Representative of God among men and He appointed interpreters through His Covenant, so Baha’is have guidance as to what the Bible means.

Why can't prophecies be specific? Wouldn't a prophecy be more trustworthy if it specifically detailed and named who they were referring to rather than having people guess and attempt to interpret what it means? Specificity would clear up all the confusion surrounding prophecies.

If God had wanted them to be more specific they would have been written that way. There are not specific because God wanted us to use our own minds, do the research, and come to our own conclusions. It is a pass/fail test. Those who pass will know who the Messiah was.

 

[Jos]

All humans have their interpretations and many interpretations might be correct even if they differ, or they could be incorrect. The reason there are so many sects of Judaism and Christianity, indeed of all the older religions, is because of the different interpretations of scripture among the followers. How can we ever know which interpretation is correct or how correct they are? This brings to mind the following passage:

This is probably gonna turn into a pointless discussion because if I ask you to provide evidence that shows that your interpretation is correct and the Jews' own is wrong you'll probably make an appeal to faith just like the Jews would.

If God had wanted them to be more specific they would have been written that way. There are not specific because God wanted us to use our own minds, do the research, and come to our own conclusions. It is a pass/fail test. Those who pass will know who the Messiah was.

Well people are fallible and come to different conclusions and an allknowing God would know that so that test doesn't make sense. This whole thing just makes no sense and it's pointless.
People come to different conclusions because of a lack of specificity... clearly we all have different abilities and strengths and weaknesses and some of us just wouldn't be smart enough to pass the test, so why God be considerate and be specific in order to avoid all the confusion while being completely aware of our limitations?

 

[Trailblazer]

This is probably gonna turn into a pointless discussion because if I ask you to provide evidence that shows that your interpretation is correct and the Jews' own is wrong you'll probably make an appeal to faith just like the Jews would.

How could I ever prove that my interpretation is correct?
How could the Jews ever prove that their interpretation is correct?
I believe that Baha'u'llah was the Messiah so I see how He fulfilled the prophecies.
Jews do not believe that Baha'u'llah was the Messiah so they do not believe He fulfilled the prophecies.

Well people are fallible and come to different conclusions and an allknowing God would know that so that test doesn't make sense. This whole thing just makes no sense and it's pointless.
People come to different conclusions because of a lack of specificity... clearly we all have different abilities and strengths and weaknesses and some of us just wouldn't be smart enough to pass the test, so why God be considerate and be specific in order to avoid all the confusion while being completely aware of our limitations?

One reason people come to different conclusions is because of a lack of specificity, but what makes you think that God would want everyone to come to the same conclusions? If God had wanted it to be easy He would have made it easy. Easy is what humans want, not what God wants.

An All-Knowing God knows that is impossible for everyone to come to the same conclusions because all humans think and process information differently; so only a few will figure it out, at least in the beginning, but more people will come on board as time goes by.

Matthew 7:13-14 Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

 

[CG Didymus]

Jews can have a different interpretation of that passage, but that does not mean their interpretation is correct.

And have you ever bothered to find out what their interpretation is?

That's true but I think the Jews would probably know more about their prophecies than everyone else and that they would have the authority regarding how to interpret it.

Yes, and there is always something about Hebrew words that get twisted around when translated. As I recall I think one Jewish interpretation had "They" instead of "He" shall come from all those places. So it is the Jewish exiles returning and not a prophecy about the Jewish Messiah coming from Assyria. And I don't know if the Assyrian Empire extended all the way over to Teheran. But how close do vague prophecies have to be to be totally accurate?

 

[CG Didymus]

And you would have the time if you were an atheist? Please dish!

And I wonder what proper beach attire is for Baha'is?

 

[Trailblazer]

And have you ever bothered to find out what their interpretation is?

No, not of that particular verse. I imagine that all Jews would not have the same interpretation

Micah 7:12 In that day also he shall come even to thee from Assyria, and from the fortified cities, and from the fortress even to the river, and from sea to sea, and from mountain to mountain.

I do not even know if Jews believe that verse is about the Messiah.

 

[ppp]

And I wonder what proper beach attire is for Baha'is?

Microkinis and polo helmets. Just guessing.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

Show me where I EVER threatened anyone or called anyone intellectually remiss.

Egads... I just wish you could sense the level of internal sighing and eyerolling that is going on inside my brain at this very moment. You are delusional. Where did you EVER (hahahahahaha!) call anyone intellectually remiss? Why... in this EXACT reply no less. Here... let me jog your memory:

Argument from ignorance asserts that a proposition is true because it has not yet been proven false or proposition is false because it has not yet been proven true.

Claiming that I made a logical faux pas because I dismissed your claims out of hand (due to complete lack of evidence, which even you admit you are working within) IS claiming that I have been intellectually remiss. And the implication of all of this "you do not know for sure that there won't be consequences" is a form of threat. Albeit an extremely tepid and sort of cowardly threat, that's what it is. I don't care what there "might be." Hell... YOU don't know that you won't be rejected by the gods from entering Valhalla because you didn't die honorably on the battlefield. Do you walk around worrying about THAT your whole life? I guarantee you don't... and yet that sentiment is epistemologically equivalent to your own. You better start getting into some battles... you don't want to be found to be committing an "argument from ignorance" now, do you? Hahahahahahahaha!!!!! What a joke. Please embark on a quest of self-examination. You have no idea what you are doing, and it shows.

I make no claims. I only pass along the claims that Baha'u'llah made.

If this is all from "Baha'u'llah," then I give him absolutely zero credit. Name-dropping does nothing to impress me. NOTHING. He didn't have the goods either. In my opinion, he never possibly could have. Do I KNOW that for sure? No. But that idea maps 1000 times better to the reality I experience than anything you've put in front of me from "Baha'u'llah."

 

[IndigoChild5559]

@Trailblazer

God's message is filtered through ordinary men.
These men may be inspired by God, but the words they choose are necessarily influenced by their culture, the times, and their personal experiences and views.