CG Didymus
Veteran Member
Which messengers have we seen?
So you looked at what Krishna, Adam, Noah, and Abraham have done? And "judged" them to be true messengers? Okay, what did they do?
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God’s Method of delivering messages, is it flawed?
- Thread starter Trailblazer
- Start date
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
And that was the question. Our "true" self is spirit. The body is only a temporary thing that God made. God also made bodies for his messengers. Were their bodies different and their brains different than regular humans? Was their spirit more pure than the spirit of regular humans? Now God, so he is spirit. He made bodies for regular humans and bodies for his messengers, but he can't make a body for himself? Even though that's what Krishna was... the God Vishnu incarnated into a body. But, although Baha'is believe in Krishna, they don't believe he is an incarnation of the God Vishnu? And how about Vishnu? Is God Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva? Of course not, Baha'is believe God is one. So where did these Hindus get these ideas about a three part Godhead and people being incarnations? If the Baha'is are correct, then there seems to be a flaw in what some Hindus believe.
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
Vinayaka, I miss you. You're the special one.
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
Find common ground.
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
Maybe in theory, maybe it's not supposed to be, but some Baha'is are more equal than others.
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
Both these concepts have no base, no evidence, just like the Iranian preacher being an avatara of Allah.
Well, not just Hindus. Bahais think that people following all other religions are at fault. Only Bahais are correct (a common Abrahamic monotheist trait). That is how they going to spread peace and unity in the world.
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Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
Answer CG's question, Trailblazer. Include Zoroaster, Moses, Buddha and Jesus. What did they do? Why do you consider them to be "manifestations" of Allah? We know something of what what Mohammad did though not all.
CG, there is no agreeable way to say that "What you believe is wrong and only what I believe is correct". It only leads to conflict.
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We have discussed this.
The Messenger is born of the holy spirit and in our reality in the form of a human. This is the virgin birth to me. They have life given of God as the Most Great Spirit (God) has sent out the Holy Spirit, we can say it was created. The Messengers are the cause of creation, but all we can know of God.
They are the self of God to us in this world, but we now know they are not God in Essence, the Messengers reflect the Attributes God wants us to know. God can not be defined by those attributes either.
We are born of the Human Spirit, I see the human Spirit enimates from the Holy Spirit, we gain life through the Holy spirit. That is what Jesus calls being born again.
God never enters creation, the Holy Spirit enimates from God, like the rays of the Sun. We can step into that light when we accept the Messengers and as we clean the mirror of our heart we too can project that light to others.
Regards Tony
I tried that.
Thing is then people ask more questions, so we give more answers. Then when they decide it is not compatible, there is a time when we try to explain how it could be.
Then we agree to disagree.
Regards Tony
Maybe only to those that are yet to understand the Message given by Baha'u'llah.
Regards Tony
rational experiences
Veteran Member
In life the human family unity has long since been expressed in the very same conditions that you impose is just Church or organization owned. Males are a family man first you know. Abuse is everywhere by a male/man and men choice plus the women who agree with this type of human behaviour.
But you have to be living as a human to own the behaviour, studied and discussed by other humans. And in no information is there not a human.
So the man/male preaching self superiority ancient clause, scientist. Observed by a natural mind and self. Who thinks whatever they thought and how they behaved in a group, a cult agreement which is a false group theme....against all other naturally owned and naturally expressed human family unity.
As a real teaching, where and how it began. Why we claim our brother the Satanist caused all human group organization problems...because he did, the science self.
Humans quote....I think self in person the highest form of anything else. To even give names to other planets, just as that human. So is it any wonder you would personally claim to be a God? When discussing the spiritual self present ownership human is also a science quote to say I personally own the God O planet history my own self.
I never began self in a big bang or a Sun theory about burning hot gases...where the science human owning natural life placed mind falsely into cosmological theories first.
Whilst he lived on a natural planet, he quotes is O one, where I live and own life, but I will compare the Earth to forms that the Earth does not own in the spatial body and try to destroy us all.
Which includes today a mentality of trying to attack any human who tries to be spiritual or positive. Ego aside, everyone has a problem in human life in the want to be considered special and acceptable, due to the history of the abuse of life in human memory for as long as we can all remember.
So we then seek to be a spiritual or positive leader for the want of trying to motivate our family to seek it their own selves also.
In the past because of bad human social behaviour it became social law....which is still demonstrated today, just because humans would not give up on their self destructive brain/mind inanity.
PAUL MARKHAM
Well-Known Member
The reasons I don't believe in messengers is on an investigation of the evidence they all come up short.I closed my mind to the possibility that others are right about my religion being wrong, because as far as I am concerned it is not possible that it could be wrong.
I did not come to this conclusion in a few days, months or years. I have been a Baha'i for 50 years. If I am not certain after all those years, I never will be.
Many of the messengers you spoke of we know nothing or know it's false. Adam, Noah, Moses for instance.
Some of the later ones can't get anything right, some have written so many vague texts then fit the vague texts to fit modern times.
Then there's the statements theist make, as if we should accept these statements as fact without any proof. Susan and Tony are very fond of this.
The problems with masturbation. Why shouldn't people masturbate? Give me a good reason for not masturbating and I'll consider it. There are good reasons it's pleasurable, makes one calmer, feel good and natural. Same with anal sex, sex outside marriage, gay sex, etc.
PAUL MARKHAM
Well-Known Member
What does that mean, where is the scientific proof?
Just saying something doesn't make it true.
PAUL MARKHAM
Well-Known Member
What does that mean, where is the scientific proof?
Just saying something doesn't make it true.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
No, Bahais do not believe that. We simply believe that the dispensations of the older religions have been abrogated by the Revelation of Baha'u'llah. Personally., I consider it an utter waste of time to talk about the older religions. Other Baha'is have different viewpoints on this to which they are welcome, but I do not live in the past.
Dispensation
- the divine ordering of the affairs of the world.
- an appointment, arrangement, or favor, as by God.
- a divinely appointed order or age:
Definition of dispensation | Dictionary.com
That means by an arrangement of God the divine ordering of the affairs of the world is now according to the Revelation of Baha'u'llah, not according to any other religion.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Do you really want to know what I believe? Please bear in mind that in the following excerpts written by Shoghi Effendi (the Guardian of the Baha'i Faith from 1921-1957) he was addressing the Baha'is, and that the Baha'i standards are not imposed upon non-Baha'is.
'The Bahá’í Faith recognizes the value of the sex impulse, but condemns its illegitimate and improper expressions such as free love, companionate marriage and others, all of which it considers positively harmful to man and to the society in which he lives. The proper use of the sex instinct is the natural right of every individual, and it is precisely for this very purpose that the institution of marriage has been established. The Bahá’ís do not believe in the suppression of the sex impulse but in its regulation and control.'
"In response to another letter enquiring if there were any legitimate way in which a person could express the sex instinct if, for some reason, he were unable to marry or if outer circumstances such as economic factors were to cause him to delay marriage, the Guardian's secretary wrote on his behalf:
'Concerning your question whether there are any legitimate forms of expression of the sex instinct outside of marriage: According to the Bahá’í Teachings no sexual act can be considered lawful unless performed between lawfully married persons. Outside of marital life there can be no lawful or healthy use of the sex impulse. The Bahá’í youth should, on the one hand, be taught the lesson of self-control which, when exercised, undoubtedly has a salutary effect on the development of character and of personality in general, and on the other should be advised, nay even encouraged, to contract marriage while still young and in full possession of their physical vigour. Economic factors, no doubt, are often a serious hindrance to early marriage but in most cases are only an excuse, and as such should not be over stressed.'
"In another letter on the Guardian's behalf, also to an individual believer, the secretary writes:
'Amongst the many other evils afflicting society in this spiritual low water mark in history is the question of immorality, and over-emphasis of sex…'
"This indicates how the whole matter of sex and the problems related to it have assumed far too great an importance in the thinking of present-day society.
"Masturbation is clearly not a proper use of the sex instinct, as this is understood in the Faith. Moreover it involves, as you have pointed out, mental fantasies, while Bahá’u’lláh, in the Kitáb-i-Aqdas, has exhorted us not to indulge our passions and in one of His well-known Tablets ‘Abdu'l-Bahá encourages us to keep our 'secret thoughts pure'. Of course many wayward thoughts come involuntarily to the mind and these are merely a result of weakness and are not blameworthy unless they become fixed or even worse, are expressed in improper acts. In 'The Advent of Divine Justice', when describing the moral standards that Bahá’ís must uphold both individually and in their community life, the Guardian wrote:
'Such a chaste and holy life, with its implications of modesty, purity, temperance, decency, and clean-mindedness, involves no less than the exercise of moderation in all that pertains to dress, language, amusements, and all artistic and literary avocations. It demands daily vigilance in the control of one's carnal desires and corrupt inclinations.'
"Your problem, therefore, is one against which you should continue to struggle, with determination and with the aid of prayer. You should remember, however, that it is only one of the many temptations and faults that a human being must strive to overcome during his lifetime, and you should not increase the difficulty you have by over-emphasising its importance. We suggest you try to see it within the whole spectrum of the qualities that a Bahá’í must develop in his character. Be vigilant against temptation, but do not allow it to claim too great a share of your attention. You should concentrate, rather, on the virtues that you should develop, the services you should strive to render, and, above all, on God and His attributes, and devote your energies to living a full Bahá’í life in all its many aspects."
(From a letter of the Universal House of Justice to an individual believer, a copy of which was sent to the compiler with a letter dated March 8, 1981)
Lights of Guidance/Chastity and Sex Education - Bahaiworks, a library of works about the Bahá’í Faith
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Please note that I never said I did not care about people.
I said: "I do not care what you or anyone on this forum thinks. Opinions don't matter, the truth will always be the truth." That does not mean I do not love others and respect their beliefs. It simply means I have personal boundaries, so I can respect others without agreeing with what they believe.
Moreover, what Baha'u'llah wrote is the standard I am supposed to live by.
"If your hearer respond, he will have responded to his own behoof, and if not, turn ye away from him, and set your faces towards God’s sacred Court, the seat of resplendent holiness."
"turn ye away from him" means stop conversing with that person, so if I was really going to follow what Baha'u'llah wrote I would have walked away from this thread a long time ago.
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Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Paul wanted me to stop talking about Baha'u'llah and I was trying to respect his wishes, but if you or others keep talking about Baha'u'llah, what am I supposed to do?
PAUL MARKHAM
Well-Known Member
Is that a declaration to run the world?
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Yes, and I direct you towards this post I got on another thread which might broaden your perspective of the NT; it broadened mine:
#255 joelr, Today at 2:41 AM