Where did I say that God doesn't need anyone to receive his message?
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God’s Method of delivering messages, is it flawed?
- Thread starter Trailblazer
- Start date
PAUL MARKHAM
Well-Known Member
One only has to look at the world to see that the only honest thing about Baha'ism is it will take a new race of Men to get their version of utopia.
Because the race of men we've had for many thousands of years will keep competing in politics, wars, murders, genocide, etc.
Look at the US election, America is split down the middle, EU is a fine example of how it won't work. A united Europe is something some politicians want to foist on their people, the problem is the people want to remain German, French, Italian, etc. Should the UK do well outside the EU, the EU is doomed and we revert to a Common Market trade deal.
Now look at the world, will Iran love Iraq, Syria love ISIS, etc? No, we're a tribal race from the sports club you support to the country, race, gender we are.
Because the race of men we've had for many thousands of years will keep competing in politics, wars, murders, genocide, etc.
Look at the US election, America is split down the middle, EU is a fine example of how it won't work. A united Europe is something some politicians want to foist on their people, the problem is the people want to remain German, French, Italian, etc. Should the UK do well outside the EU, the EU is doomed and we revert to a Common Market trade deal.
Now look at the world, will Iran love Iraq, Syria love ISIS, etc? No, we're a tribal race from the sports club you support to the country, race, gender we are.
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ppp
Well-Known Member
Then I don't see how your use of the word "forcing" applies to a god delivering a message.
PAUL MARKHAM
Well-Known Member
You're using an impossible example to prove a point that is obvious to most is wrong.
If your mythical God wants everyone to receive His message. He would send it in a way that everyone understands. Then people can use their free will. Don't say god can't do that because it limits your mythical god.
The present method only suits fake and false messengers with their fake and false take on what this god is.
You say it's one thing and others say it's another thing, both can't be right. Both can be wrong though. Saying different messengers get different messages at similar times is just to cover the truth. The number of messengers is in the 10,000s.
PAUL MARKHAM
Well-Known Member
There is no god.
Theists need people to get their messages, whatever message they are selling.
PAUL MARKHAM
Well-Known Member
A god isn't forcing anyone to take a message. The messengers are. All of them with different messages.
Muffled
Jesus in me
No, He got it from God. Baha'u'llah had no Bible to refer to when He was writing His Tablets.
What Baha'u'llah wrote came from His own mind.
Besides, everything does not come from the Bible.
The Bible is not the only Holy Book that was ever written....
I don't believe there is any way to verify what influenced his thinking. I can only verify that wrong thinking means it didn't come from God.
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe if the writings were on the subway wall they would read Covid-19.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Where did God say that He needs anyone to receive His message?
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
It would be an intrusion. God would be forcing the message on people who did not want it, just like a burglar would be forcing his way into your house if you did not want him there. You cannot assume that everyone wants a message from God.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
God wants everyone to receive His message, but only if they get it from the Messenger. God does not communicate directly to humans and there is no reason why He should. If people want the message, they can get it from the Messenger.
God does not need anyone to get His message, since the message is ONLY for the benefit of humans, not for God's benefit. God has no needs, so it does not matter to God if anyone gets His message.
No, there have only been a dozen or so true Messenger of God that we know of.
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Trailblazer
Veteran Member
The true Messengers NEVER forced their Messages on anyone.
Only false messengers do that and that is one way you can tell the difference.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Please tell me how you can verify that it did not come from God.
Do you have a direct line to God?
ppp
Well-Known Member
I don't get why you say that. It's no more an intrusion that my new neighbor saying, "Hi! I'm John. We just moved in here." That is nothing like a burglar breaking into my house. Again, Trailblazer, giving a message does not constitute "force".
Messages do not stop me from being able to choose my actions. There is no reasonable circumstance where someone demonstrating their existence would ever rise to the level of "force".
Can you explain why you think otherwise without using an analogy?
PAUL MARKHAM
Well-Known Member
You cannot assume a god is sending messages. You can only believe your messenger is telling the truth.
PAUL MARKHAM
Well-Known Member
Messenger need people to follow them. There are no gods sending messages.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Forget what I said about force. That is not the point. The point is that God does not want to give everyone a personal message or demonstrate His existence. If God wanted to do that God would have done that long ago, since an omnipotent God could do it.
Why should God give everyone a personal message or demonstrate His existence? That is the hundred dollar question.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
That is correct.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
No, a Messenger does not need people to follow Him, but some people do follow Him.
ppp
Well-Known Member
That is not the point you were making. The point that you were trying and failing to make is that if your god gave a message to everyone that they would be forced to do something and their free will would be abridged. That is quite obviously a bad, bad argument.
You are now switching to a different argument. From claiming that your god cannot provide his message to everyone (because of freewill impingement) to and now just claiming that your god does not want everyone to believe he exists or that he has messages.
Not my problem.