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God’s Method of delivering messages, is it flawed?

PAUL MARKHAM

PAUL MARKHAM

Well-Known Member
Trailblazer said:
Do you really want to know what I believe? Please bear in mind that in the following excerpts written by Shoghi Effendi (the Guardian of the Baha'i Faith from 1921-1957) he was addressing the Baha'is, and that the Baha'i standards are not imposed upon non-Baha'is.

'The Bahá’í Faith recognizes the value of the sex impulse, but condemns its illegitimate and improper expressions such as free love, companionate marriage and others, all of which it considers positively harmful to man and to the society in which he lives. The proper use of the sex instinct is the natural right of every individual, and it is precisely for this very purpose that the institution of marriage has been established. The Bahá’ís do not believe in the suppression of the sex impulse but in its regulation and control.'

"In response to another letter enquiring if there were any legitimate way in which a person could express the sex instinct if, for some reason, he were unable to marry or if outer circumstances such as economic factors were to cause him to delay marriage, the Guardian's secretary wrote on his behalf:

'Concerning your question whether there are any legitimate forms of expression of the sex instinct outside of marriage: According to the Bahá’í Teachings no sexual act can be considered lawful unless performed between lawfully married persons. Outside of marital life there can be no lawful or healthy use of the sex impulse. The Bahá’í youth should, on the one hand, be taught the lesson of self-control which, when exercised, undoubtedly has a salutary effect on the development of character and of personality in general, and on the other should be advised, nay even encouraged, to contract marriage while still young and in full possession of their physical vigour. Economic factors, no doubt, are often a serious hindrance to early marriage but in most cases are only an excuse, and as such should not be over stressed.'

"In another letter on the Guardian's behalf, also to an individual believer, the secretary writes:

'Amongst the many other evils afflicting society in this spiritual low water mark in history is the question of immorality, and over-emphasis of sex…'

"This indicates how the whole matter of sex and the problems related to it have assumed far too great an importance in the thinking of present-day society.

"Masturbation is clearly not a proper use of the sex instinct, as this is understood in the Faith. Moreover it involves, as you have pointed out, mental fantasies, while Bahá’u’lláh, in the Kitáb-i-Aqdas, has exhorted us not to indulge our passions and in one of His well-known Tablets ‘Abdu'l-Bahá encourages us to keep our 'secret thoughts pure'. Of course many wayward thoughts come involuntarily to the mind and these are merely a result of weakness and are not blameworthy unless they become fixed or even worse, are expressed in improper acts. In 'The Advent of Divine Justice', when describing the moral standards that Bahá’ís must uphold both individually and in their community life, the Guardian wrote:

'Such a chaste and holy life, with its implications of modesty, purity, temperance, decency, and clean-mindedness, involves no less than the exercise of moderation in all that pertains to dress, language, amusements, and all artistic and literary avocations. It demands daily vigilance in the control of one's carnal desires and corrupt inclinations.'

"Your problem, therefore, is one against which you should continue to struggle, with determination and with the aid of prayer. You should remember, however, that it is only one of the many temptations and faults that a human being must strive to overcome during his lifetime, and you should not increase the difficulty you have by over-emphasising its importance. We suggest you try to see it within the whole spectrum of the qualities that a Bahá’í must develop in his character. Be vigilant against temptation, but do not allow it to claim too great a share of your attention. You should concentrate, rather, on the virtues that you should develop, the services you should strive to render, and, above all, on God and His attributes, and devote your energies to living a full Bahá’í life in all its many aspects."

(From a letter of the Universal House of Justice to an individual believer, a copy of which was sent to the compiler with a letter dated March 8, 1981)

Lights of Guidance/Chastity and Sex Education - Bahaiworks, a library of works about the Bahá’í Faith
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So if we stop masturbating and having sex outside of marriage we will stop doing evil things. LOL
 
PAUL MARKHAM

PAUL MARKHAM

Well-Known Member
Trailblazer said:
Please note that I never said I did not care about people.
I said: "I do not care what you or anyone on this forum thinks. Opinions don't matter, the truth will always be the truth." That does not mean I do not love others and respect their beliefs. It simply means I have personal boundaries, so I can respect others without agreeing with what they believe.

Moreover, what Baha'u'llah wrote is the standard I am supposed to live by.

"If your hearer respond, he will have responded to his own behoof, and if not, turn ye away from him, and set your faces towards God’s sacred Court, the seat of resplendent holiness."

"turn ye away from him" means stop conversing with that person, so if I was really going to follow what Baha'u'llah wrote I would have walked away from this thread a long time ago, as Tony finally did.
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So science trumps opinions every time. Even the opinions of Persian preachers.
 
Trailblazer

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
CG Didymus said:
Is our true self the physical body or our spirit?
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John 3:5-7 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

1 John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
CG Didymus said:
Did God make our physical bodies, but he can't make one for himself? Yet, he makes special bodies for spirits of the manifestations to live in?
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If God had a physical body God would be a man, not God.
 
Trailblazer

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
CG Didymus said:
God making moral laws that most people, not you, can't follow is one of the flaws.
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It is not a flaw of God. It is a flaw of the humans who cannot follow those laws.
Most people are flawed according to God's standards.

“My captivity can bring on Me no shame. Nay, by My life, it conferreth on Me glory. That which can make Me ashamed is the conduct of such of My followers as profess to love Me, yet in fact follow the Evil One. They, indeed, are of the lost.

When the time set for this Revelation was fulfilled, and He Who is the Day Star of the world appeared in ‘Iráq, He bade His followers observe that which would sanctify them from all earthly defilements. Some preferred to follow the desires of a corrupt inclination, while others walked in the way of righteousness and truth, and were rightly guided.

Say: He is not to be numbered with the people of Bahá who followeth his mundane desires, or fixeth his heart on things of the earth. He is My true follower who, if he come to a valley of pure gold, will pass straight through it aloof as a cloud, and will neither turn back, nor pause. Such a man is, assuredly, of Me. From his garment the Concourse on high can inhale the fragrance of sanctity…. And if he met the fairest and most comely of women, he would not feel his heart seduced by the least shadow of desire for her beauty. Such an one, indeed, is the creation of spotless chastity. Thus instructeth you the Pen of the Ancient of Days, as bidden by your Lord, the Almighty, the All-Bountiful.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 117-118
 
Trailblazer

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
CG Didymus said:
Which messengers have we seen?

So you looked at what Krishna, Adam, Noah, and Abraham have done? And "judged" them to be true messengers? Okay, what did they do?
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I do not care because I do not live in the distant past.

If you care I suggest you research them.
 
Trailblazer

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
PAUL MARKHAM said:
Is that a declaration to run the world?
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No, absolutely not....

I said "That means by an arrangement of God the divine ordering of the affairs of the world is now according to the Revelation of Baha'u'llah, not according to any other religion."

I said nothing about running the world.
 
PAUL MARKHAM

PAUL MARKHAM

Well-Known Member
Trailblazer said:
It is not a flaw of God. It is a flaw of the humans who cannot follow those laws.
Most people are flawed according to God's standards.

“My captivity can bring on Me no shame. Nay, by My life, it conferreth on Me glory. That which can make Me ashamed is the conduct of such of My followers as profess to love Me, yet in fact follow the Evil One. They, indeed, are of the lost.

When the time set for this Revelation was fulfilled, and He Who is the Day Star of the world appeared in ‘Iráq, He bade His followers observe that which would sanctify them from all earthly defilements. Some preferred to follow the desires of a corrupt inclination, while others walked in the way of righteousness and truth, and were rightly guided.

Say: He is not to be numbered with the people of Bahá who followeth his mundane desires, or fixeth his heart on things of the earth. He is My true follower who, if he come to a valley of pure gold, will pass straight through it aloof as a cloud, and will neither turn back, nor pause. Such a man is, assuredly, of Me. From his garment the Concourse on high can inhale the fragrance of sanctity…. And if he met the fairest and most comely of women, he would not feel his heart seduced by the least shadow of desire for her beauty. Such an one, indeed, is the creation of spotless chastity. Thus instructeth you the Pen of the Ancient of Days, as bidden by your Lord, the Almighty, the All-Bountiful.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 117-118
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The flaw is we're made to enjoy masturbating, sex outside of marriage, etching. So the flaws are the responsibility of what made us.
 
PAUL MARKHAM

PAUL MARKHAM

Well-Known Member
Trailblazer said:
No, absolutely not....

I said "That means by an arrangement of God the divine ordering of the affairs of the world is now according to the Revelation of Baha'u'llah, not according to any other religion."

I said nothing about running the world.
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So what does it mean? What will it run, how will it enforce it's directives?
 
PAUL MARKHAM

PAUL MARKHAM

Well-Known Member
Once again theists display a flaw in their rules. Their failure to point out the dangers of doing things they claimed are wrong opens them to ridicule.

Such as.

Masturbation
Sex outside marriage
Gay sex
Rules on menstruation
Not believing
And more.
 
Trailblazer

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
PAUL MARKHAM said:
No the quotes said that.

So what benefits are there? In a language we can decipher.
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Benefits of not masturbating?

One of the benefits is that it takes one's mind off one's selfish desires and focuses one's mind on something more beneficial to his character. Another benefit is that it allows one to exercise self-control, which is a laudable quality.
 
TransmutingSoul

TransmutingSoul

One Planet, One People, Please!
Premium Member
Aupmanyav said:
Well, not just Hindus. Bahais think that people following all other religions are at fault. Only Bahais are correct (a common Abrahamic monotheist trait). That is how they going to spread peace and unity in the world.
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I see that peace will spread when people of all Faiths and those of no Faith follow God given virtues.

I see no difference in the Message given my all Avatars, Messengers, Prophets that gave their Message from the One God.

I see what hinders us from finding that unity is men that think they know more than God, or make God's of their own thoughts.

So if all people are willing to live the virtues, then peace can be found in that diversity of names, or one who chooses no name.

If people are not willing to find a unity for the good of all, then it is only just and fair that someone stands up to show it is possible and take the lead. If that is what has God has willed, then it will be.

As you do not think there is a God, then it is not so black and white for you, but for me it seems 100% logical that we have to find unity as one race of men, for the good of all.

Regards Tony
 
Trailblazer

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
PAUL MARKHAM said:
Their failure to point out the dangers of doing things they claimed are wrong opens them to ridicule.
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The danger is to your soul, as Jesus said:

Matthew 16:24-26 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

Those who do not recognize the dangers in this life will find out what the dangers were after they die and realize how they wasted their life on their selfish desires.
 
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