God and his free will

[uss_bigd]

So far all the debate on free will v. determinism has focused on we folks, but how about god. It's almost a certainty that Christians will declare their god has free will, but what do the determinists here say?

As a determinsist I say

1) God has free will

2) God does not have free will
​

What made you think he doesn't have free will?

 

[Me Myself]

I don´t find the option "both 1 and 2 are correct"

 

[Skwim]

What made you think he doesn't have free will?

Because everything (some subatomic events excepted perhaps) that happens has a cause, and that cause determines what a person, god included, will do. The alternative is that what he does is an utter random event.

I don´t find the option "both 1 and 2 are correct"

Then I suggest you take a Correctol or two.

 

[CynthiaCypher]

If God is omni-beneficent then it's impossible for God to have free will. If God is omniscient then it's impossible for God to have free will.

 

[uss_bigd]

Because everything (some subatomic events excepted perhaps) that happens has a cause, and that cause determines what a person, god included, will do. The alternative is that what he does is an utter random event.

My reply to your post is "caused" by MY decision to reply, in the same way that GOD's love for the gentiles came before the gentiles could do the same...

That is the manifestation of GOD's free will.

1 John 4:19

We love because he first loved us.

 

[uss_bigd]

If God is omni-beneficent then it's impossible for God to have free will. If God is omniscient then it's impossible for God to have free will.

GOD is not Omniscient as he does not know if you will decide to follow him or not

2 Kings 18:32

until I come and take you to a land like your own—a land of grain and new wine, a land of bread and vineyards, a land of olive trees and honey. Choose life and not death! “Do not listen to Hezekiah, for he is misleading you when he says, ‘The LORD will deliver us.’

Prophets asked the people of Israel to choose life and not death...

 

[Thief]

Sorry I got here late....

God has the will to create. That would literally be...phenomenal.
I don't think there's anyone else, twisting His arm.

He had the will to create Man.
He has the will to stand back and 'let it be'.

Seems He has a lot of will.

 

[Quantrill]

GOD is not Omniscient as he does not know if you will decide to follow him or not

2 Kings 18:32

until I come and take you to a land like your own—a land of grain and new wine, a land of bread and vineyards, a land of olive trees and honey. Choose life and not death! “Do not listen to Hezekiah, for he is misleading you when he says, ‘The LORD will deliver us.’

Prophets asked the people of Israel to choose life and not death...

God is omniscient. And He knows who will decide and follow Him. Gods omniscience doesn't remove from man the exercise of his (man's) will.

God alone has 'free will'. That is a will that is not influenced by any outside interference. He acts according to His will alone.

Man has a will, but his will is exercised always due to outside influences. It is not free, it decides based on what its given. For example, a man and his two children are captured by terrorists. The terrorists give the man the option of one of his children living as they will kill the other. The man must decide one over the other. His will is really that neither would be killed. But his will won't be fulfilled. Its not free. But he will decide because he has a will.

Quantrill

 

[Willamena]

Because everything (some subatomic events excepted perhaps) that happens has a cause, and that cause determines what a person, god included, will do. The alternative is that what he does is an utter random event.

No, the alternative to determination is self-determination. There is nothing "random" about it.

And they're not necessarily mutually exclusive.

 

[CarlinKnew]

Free will is too broad a term to discuss. The compatibilist view is self evident and the libertarian view, well, not even its supporters understand it.

 

[PolyHedral]

No, the alternative to determination is self-determination. There is nothing "random" about it.

And they're not necessarily mutually exclusive.

All decisions must either be based on some decision-making process (and be determined by it) or random. There aren't any other options.

 

[idav]

All decisions must either be based on some decision-making process (and be determined by it) or random. There aren't any other options.

There is more to randomness that would allow for real choice. I would call it an un-caused choice.

 

[Nakosis]

'K. God's larger than infinity. God goes beyond our logic.

Good luck with that argument.
How you going to explain that when all humans want to do is analyze things?

God can't be analyzed but God can be experienced? :yes:

Any attempt to analyze God is going to fail. I'd like to. I'd like to be helpful. All we can do maybe is describe what we've experienced. However when one tries to breakdown that experience, there is nothing immanent of which the individual can relate to.

 

[PolyHedral]

There is more to randomness that would allow for real choice. I would call it an un-caused choice.

What could that possibly be?

 

[uss_bigd]

God is omniscient. And He knows who will decide and follow Him. Gods omniscience doesn't remove from man the exercise of his (man's) will.


Quantrill

’

read this verse again sir

2 Kings 18:32

until I come and take you to a land like your own—a land of grain and new wine, a land of bread and vineyards, a land of olive trees and honey. Choose life and not death! “Do not listen to Hezekiah, for he is misleading you when he says, ‘The LORD will deliver us.


now are you saying that the encouragement to choose life and not death is a stage play?

 

[Quantrill]

’

read this verse again sir

2 Kings 18:32

until I come and take you to a land like your own—a land of grain and new wine, a land of bread and vineyards, a land of olive trees and honey. Choose life and not death! “Do not listen to Hezekiah, for he is misleading you when he says, ‘The LORD will deliver us.


now are you saying that the encouragement to choose life and not death is a stage play?

No, I am saying God is omniscient and knows all who will follow Him. That doesn't remove man's will being exercised, and living and dying by the direction of that will.

Life and the world and the events that occur, is not a stage or play from our view. But indeed it can be from God's. It is all of Him and set in motion by Him and He knows the begining to the end. Which is why you have the complete revelation given from Genesis to Revelation.

Quantrill

 

[uss_bigd]

No, I am saying God is omniscient and knows all who will follow Him. That doesn't remove man's will being exercised, and living and dying by the direction of that will.

Life and the world and the events that occur, is not a stage or play from our view. But indeed it can be from God's. It is all of Him and set in motion by Him and He knows the begining to the end. Which is why you have the complete revelation given from Genesis to Revelation.

Quantrill

I see...

If i say GOD wouldn't know until the person decided in his heart, do you agree or disagree?

 

[Quantrill]

I see...

If i say GOD wouldn't know until the person decided in his heart, do you agree or disagree?

I would disagree. God knows who will come because He chooses who will come.

John 6:37 " All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. "

Quantrill

 

[Skwim]

My reply to your post is "caused" by MY decision to reply, in the same way that GOD's love for the gentiles came before the gentiles could do the same...

We're going a bit deeper than that. I'm looking at what caused one to come to a decision, and to just say "I did" is ignoring the decision making process.

No, the alternative to determination is self-determination. There is nothing "random" about it.

Not "determination" but "determinism." And I agree, randomness doesn't figure into it.

And they're not necessarily mutually exclusive.

Yes they are. Polyhedral said it very well, "All decisions must either be based on some decision-making process (and be determined by it) or random. There aren't any other options."

Free will is too broad a term to discuss.

While I have yet to see a good definition of "will" and "freewill," I usually take a working definition of the term to mean "I could have done differently if I had wanted."

 

[CarlinKnew]

While I have yet to see a good definition of "will" and "freewill," I usually take a working definition of the term to mean "I could have done differently if I had wanted."

But then I would ask, "Could you have wanted to have done differently?" If so, what would have made you want to do so, and etc. Free will is just too broad a term, open to too many objections to coherently defend.