Wow! Here is a suggestion. READ the entire Bible. God hates no one. It is sin He hates. The first chapter of Romans explains this if you can force yourself to stop proof-texting and start letting scripture speak. Christ died for US while we were still sinners! You don't need fingers to identify sinners, only a mirror.
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God and his hatred of homosexuality
- Thread starter Skwim
- Start date
Maya Kaath
Mage
I hope this has been noted before, but prescriptive scriptures are crystal clear about our responsibility to each other. We are to love first. It is one of the two great commandments given by Moses and Christ; it is the heart of the teachings of Krishna and Buddha, who said, "Hatred does not cease by hatred; hatred ceases by love...". Love and kindness are the core of Muhammad's teachings and the writings of both Bahá'u'lláh and His son, Abdu'l-Bahá.
Since I was raised in the Christian faith and because so many of the "Kill the Gays" "religious" rhetoric is coming from professing Christians, I'd like to consider this from the perspective of Christ's teachings.
Frankly, Christ leaves no wiggle room in His commandment to love. First, He is clear that our connection to God depends on our obedience to His commandment. Then, He says: “This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.” (John 15: 12) I ask the reader to appreciate the context in which this commandment was given—Christ is speaking to His disciples knowing He will very soon be going to the cross. This is His final message to them before this happens. He chooses to repeat this commandment, with supporting logic, three times.
Christ notes, in His “sermon on the mount”, that this ability to love is not easy. “Therefore, all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets. Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.” (Matthew 7:12-14)
Christ also cites the love of one's neighbor as one of two commandments upon which all others depend. (Matthew 22:35-40)
What does that mean? It means that all other commandments must be understood in the light of these two (to love God, and love one's neighbor). All other laws are subordinate to these. All. Other. Laws.
Lest we misunderstand, Jesus covered quibbles about who our "neighbor" was with the story of the Good Samaritan, which makes the point that your neighbor is not just the person who shares your religion, or your ethnicity, or your point of origin, or your language. It may be someone you find “other” in some way—inferior, wrong, wicked, different, not US. (He also famously said that those of us without sin could cast the first stone at someone we found sinful.)
For those who see gays as "the enemy", Christ also has words: “Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven…” (Matthew 5:43-48)
Look at the teachings above. They cover our fellow believers, our neighbors, people not like us in some way, our enemies. These are all people we are commanded by God to love. Christ leaves no wiggle room for hatred.
“Verily I say unto you, inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it to me. … Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.” (Matthew 25: 40 & 45)
In all ways, Christ taught that love for our fellow human beings was the spiritual touchstone, the hallmark of the believer, the means of maintaining a connection to His Divine Father and abiding in His love. What does it mean that we are willing to break this greatest commandment in favor of adhering to any subordinate clause in our covenant with God?
The Bahá'í scriptures are eloquent on this theme as well because the unity of the human race is the pivotal teaching of Bahá'u'lláh. As His son, Abdu'l-Bahá expressed it:
“We must be loving to all the people of the world. We must not consider any people the people of Satan, but know and recognize all as the servants of the one God. At most it is this: Some do not know; they must be guided and trained. They must be taught to love their fellow creatures and be encouraged in the acquisition of virtues. Some are ignorant; they must be informed. Some are as children, undeveloped; they must be helped to reach maturity. Some are ailing, their moral condition is unhealthy; they must be treated until their morals are purified. But the sick man is not to be hated because he is sick, the child must not be shunned because he is a child, the ignorant one is not to be despised because he lacks knowledge. They must all be treated, educated, trained and assisted in love.” (Promulgation of Universal Peace, from a talk given 17 August 1912 at Green Acre, Eliot, Maine) (italics mine)
Since I was raised in the Christian faith and because so many of the "Kill the Gays" "religious" rhetoric is coming from professing Christians, I'd like to consider this from the perspective of Christ's teachings.
Frankly, Christ leaves no wiggle room in His commandment to love. First, He is clear that our connection to God depends on our obedience to His commandment. Then, He says: “This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.” (John 15: 12) I ask the reader to appreciate the context in which this commandment was given—Christ is speaking to His disciples knowing He will very soon be going to the cross. This is His final message to them before this happens. He chooses to repeat this commandment, with supporting logic, three times.
Christ notes, in His “sermon on the mount”, that this ability to love is not easy. “Therefore, all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets. Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.” (Matthew 7:12-14)
Christ also cites the love of one's neighbor as one of two commandments upon which all others depend. (Matthew 22:35-40)
What does that mean? It means that all other commandments must be understood in the light of these two (to love God, and love one's neighbor). All other laws are subordinate to these. All. Other. Laws.
Lest we misunderstand, Jesus covered quibbles about who our "neighbor" was with the story of the Good Samaritan, which makes the point that your neighbor is not just the person who shares your religion, or your ethnicity, or your point of origin, or your language. It may be someone you find “other” in some way—inferior, wrong, wicked, different, not US. (He also famously said that those of us without sin could cast the first stone at someone we found sinful.)
For those who see gays as "the enemy", Christ also has words: “Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven…” (Matthew 5:43-48)
Look at the teachings above. They cover our fellow believers, our neighbors, people not like us in some way, our enemies. These are all people we are commanded by God to love. Christ leaves no wiggle room for hatred.
“Verily I say unto you, inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it to me. … Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.” (Matthew 25: 40 & 45)
In all ways, Christ taught that love for our fellow human beings was the spiritual touchstone, the hallmark of the believer, the means of maintaining a connection to His Divine Father and abiding in His love. What does it mean that we are willing to break this greatest commandment in favor of adhering to any subordinate clause in our covenant with God?
The Bahá'í scriptures are eloquent on this theme as well because the unity of the human race is the pivotal teaching of Bahá'u'lláh. As His son, Abdu'l-Bahá expressed it:
“We must be loving to all the people of the world. We must not consider any people the people of Satan, but know and recognize all as the servants of the one God. At most it is this: Some do not know; they must be guided and trained. They must be taught to love their fellow creatures and be encouraged in the acquisition of virtues. Some are ignorant; they must be informed. Some are as children, undeveloped; they must be helped to reach maturity. Some are ailing, their moral condition is unhealthy; they must be treated until their morals are purified. But the sick man is not to be hated because he is sick, the child must not be shunned because he is a child, the ignorant one is not to be despised because he lacks knowledge. They must all be treated, educated, trained and assisted in love.” (Promulgation of Universal Peace, from a talk given 17 August 1912 at Green Acre, Eliot, Maine) (italics mine)
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Very well put, very eloquent. I applaud you for this. But unless I'm missing something (correct me if I'm wrong), there's still an element of "love them (even though...)" here, as if there is "something wrong" or "broken" or "other" about them, that, in the name of love, we ought to simply ignore. What needs to happen is for the rest of us to realize that there is nothing wrong or broken about homosexuality; there is nothing that makes them "other" than us. The first view patronizes. The second view honors the diversity.
But you did include homosexuality within that group but elegantly neglected heterosexuality.
The real question that everyone here is asking of you is why and in what way would god view heterosexuality and homosexuality differently. Please keep cultural conditioning of the biblical writers in mind as you answer . . . just as you do when you put on your poly-cotton kilt or plant your onions in the same garden as your kale.
Ingledsva
HEATHEN ALASKAN
Thats bible.
In islam Allah doesnt hate disbelievers and gays but He has cursed them. The curse means that they are far removed from Allah and that they shall burn in hell for eternal.
67. And they will say: "Our Lord! Surely we obeyed our chiefs and our great ones, and they caused us to follow a misleading path.
68. "Our Lord! Cause them to suffer the punishment doubled, and curse them with a mighty curse (so that they are utterly excluded, absolutely and eternally, from Your Mercy)!"
As for the muslim with homo/lesbian feelings, it is better for him/her to avoid major sinning and to give up these satanic feelings. Because the act homosexuality(Homosex/lesbiansex) is work of satan and unnatural.
Literal
But perhaps [that] you dislike a thing(Purification, obeying Allah, doing good deeds)and it (is) good for you; and perhaps [that] you love a thing (Homosexual feelings, sinning, immorality, gambling, drugs)and it (is) bad for you. And Allah knows while you (do) not know.
You need to put book, verse, number, etc., so we can look these up.
Because I don't remember either of those verses being connected to homosexuality.
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Maya Kaath
Mage
[QUOTE="sojourner, post: 4114488, member: 5010"But unless I'm missing something (correct me if I'm wrong), there's still an element of "love them (even though...)" here, as if there is "something wrong" or "broken" or "other" about them, that, in the name of love, we ought to simply ignore. What needs to happen is for the rest of us to realize that there is nothing wrong or broken about homosexuality; there is nothing that makes them "other" than us. The first view patronizes. The second view honors the diversity.[/QUOTE]
Which was why I italicized the words "At most it is this:" in the quote from Abdu'l-Bahá. It is not, I think, patronizing, to recognize that all of us are broken to one degree or another. The way in which we seem to be most broken is in the ease with which we allow our personal view of lifestyles or worldviews or behavior we disagree with to short circuit our love for each other.
Bahá'u'lláh stresses the necessary quality of humility in this context, when He says: "Know ye not why We created you all from the same dust? That no one should exalt himself over the other. Ponder at all times in your hearts how ye were created. Since We have created you all from one same substance it is incumbent on you to be even as one soul, to walk with the same feet, eat with the same mouth and dwell in the same land, that from your inmost being, by your deeds and actions, the signs of oneness and the essence of detachment may be made manifest. Such is My counsel to you, O concourse of light! Heed ye this counsel that ye may obtain the fruit of holiness from the tree of wondrous glory." — Hidden Words of Bahá'u'lláh
Which was why I italicized the words "At most it is this:" in the quote from Abdu'l-Bahá. It is not, I think, patronizing, to recognize that all of us are broken to one degree or another. The way in which we seem to be most broken is in the ease with which we allow our personal view of lifestyles or worldviews or behavior we disagree with to short circuit our love for each other.
Bahá'u'lláh stresses the necessary quality of humility in this context, when He says: "Know ye not why We created you all from the same dust? That no one should exalt himself over the other. Ponder at all times in your hearts how ye were created. Since We have created you all from one same substance it is incumbent on you to be even as one soul, to walk with the same feet, eat with the same mouth and dwell in the same land, that from your inmost being, by your deeds and actions, the signs of oneness and the essence of detachment may be made manifest. Such is My counsel to you, O concourse of light! Heed ye this counsel that ye may obtain the fruit of holiness from the tree of wondrous glory." — Hidden Words of Bahá'u'lláh
Ingledsva
HEATHEN ALASKAN
Maya Kaath
Mage
"Look, this was the iniquity of your sister Sodom: She and her daughter had pride, fullness of food, and abundance of idleness; neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. And they were haughty and committed abomination before Me; therefore I took them away as I saw fit.” (Ezekiel 16: 48-50)
Sodom was destroyed because of the way its inhabitants treated the poor and needy. If you read the account of Lott carefully, you may note that the perversity had to do with the way they Sodomites proposed to treat strangers in their midst. We have construed that to be chiefly about sexual perversion, but, given the context with Ezekiel's message and the laws that Christ and Muhammad elevate to centrality, it seems inescapable that the real perversion was to lack empathy with other human beings.
Even at this point (pre-Mosaic), the core moral principle of not abusing the stranger (which was informed later by the Hebrews' sojourn in Egypt as strangers in a strange land) was raised above all other laws. It was still held in such elevation when Christ told the story of the Good Samaritan and gave the commandment to treat others as we would like them to treat us.
Think in what wonderful ways the world would change if we were to focus on that one eternal Law.
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Which was why I italicized the words "At most it is this:" in the quote from Abdu'l-Bahá. It is not, I think, patronizing, to recognize that all of us are broken to one degree or another. The way in which we seem to be most broken is in the ease with which we allow our personal view of lifestyles or worldviews or behavior we disagree with to short circuit our love for each other.
Bahá'u'lláh stresses the necessary quality of humility in this context, when He says: "Know ye not why We created you all from the same dust? That no one should exalt himself over the other. Ponder at all times in your hearts how ye were created. Since We have created you all from one same substance it is incumbent on you to be even as one soul, to walk with the same feet, eat with the same mouth and dwell in the same land, that from your inmost being, by your deeds and actions, the signs of oneness and the essence of detachment may be made manifest. Such is My counsel to you, O concourse of light! Heed ye this counsel that ye may obtain the fruit of holiness from the tree of wondrous glory." — Hidden Words of Bahá'u'lláh[/QUOTE]
Ok, but you're still intimating that homosexuality is, somehow, an attribute of the human identity that is "broken." And I take exception to that, because it's dishonest. I think that, by adding in the part about loving one's enemy, you're only giving credence to the false claim that homosexuality is "wrong." Had you left that completely out, I think your essay would have been ok.
Ingledsva
HEATHEN ALASKAN
Not so. A man was killed for killing King Saul, - even though he was obviously evil, and even told him to,- because he was put in place by God.
2Sa 1:6 And the young man that told him said, As I happened by chance upon mount Gilboa, behold, Saul leaned upon his spear; and, lo, the chariots and horsemen followed hard after him.
2Sa 1:7 And when he looked behind him, he saw me, and called unto me. And I answered, Here am I.
2Sa 1:8 And he said unto me, Who art thou? And I answered him, I am an Amalekite.
2Sa 1:9 He said unto me again, Stand, I pray thee, upon me, and slay me: for anguish is come upon me, because my life is yet whole in me.
2Sa 1:10 So I stood upon him, and slew him, because I was sure that he could not live after that he was fallen: and I took the crown that was upon his head, and the bracelet that was on his arm, and have brought them hither unto my lord.
2Sa 1:11 Then David took hold on his clothes, and rent them; and likewise all the men that were with him:
2Sa 1:12 And they mourned, and wept, and fasted until even, for Saul, and for Jonathan his son, and for the people of the LORD, and for the house of Israel; because they were fallen by the sword.
2Sa 1:13 And David said unto the young man that told him, Whence art thou? And he answered, I am the son of a stranger, an Amalekite.
2Sa 1:14 And David said unto him, How wast thou not afraid to stretch forth thine hand to destroy the LORD'S anointed?
2Sa 1:15 And David called one of the young men, and said, Go near, and fall upon him. And he smote him that he died.
2Sa 1:16 And David said unto him, Thy blood be upon thy head; for thy mouth hath testified against thee, saying, I have slain the LORD'S anointed.
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Skwim
Veteran Member
Hosea 9:15 - "All their wickedness is in Gilgal: for there I hated them: for the wickedness of their doings I will drive them out of mine house, I will love them no more: all their princes are revolters."
Romans 9:13 - "As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated."
Psalm 5:5 - "The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity."
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Again, good take, with one little tweak, if you don't mind.
Sodom was destroyed because of the way its inhabitants treated the stranger -- not the "poor and needy." It was wholly a hospitality thing. In that culture, a resident was committed to provide shelter to the stranger, above his own family's needs. That's why Lot offered up his daughters. The hospitality laws recognized that a stranger was wholly without protection from starvation, exposure, mistreatment, of a magnitude that exceeded the plight of the poor and needy of the community. The core issue here is estrangement and disenfranchisement.
It's really not about "not abusing the stranger." It's about "protecting the stranger." "Not abusing" infers a reaction. "Protecting" infers proaction. IOW, in order to "not abuse," no action is required. In order to "protect," both action and intent are required. It is that proactive intent that is important here.
Ingledsva
HEATHEN ALASKAN
Actually, - if they are there at all, - it is only in connection to Sacred Sex, - connected to another God, - which makes it IDOLATRY, and the reason it is punishable by death.
So no condemnation of homosexuals, or homosexuality, - just IDOLATRY, - which sometimes involves sex.
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Ingledsva
HEATHEN ALASKAN
Ingledsva
HEATHEN ALASKAN
However, Jesus teaches nothing against homosexuals, or homosexuality, -
and yet, even the Baha'i condemn homosexuality.
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we-live-now
Active Member
The Bible says that god really hates those who commit homosexual acts.
Lev. 20:13:
"If a man also lie with mankind, as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."
Rom. 1:26-27
"For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise alsothe men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet. "
And that's one harsh judgment: death and all. But as has been argued time and again here on RF, god doesn't necessarily hate the homosexual, just the physical intimacy (s)he shares with those of the same sex. Acknowledging this is correct---I see no reason to contest the point--- why would god be against such intimacy? Evidently he doesn't care that those of the same sex love each other, just as men and women love each other, or even that they desire and yearn for one another. Just don't go shedding your tunics and loincloths, and start rubbing up against one another. God, then, seems to have no trouble with homosexuals sharing any of emotions that occur between men and women. "Go ahead and covet your bro, just don't take it any further."
The crux of god's fury then is physical intimacy between those of the same sex: the touching of another's body for sexual gratification, in whole or in part. In as much as god endowed almost all of humanity with sexual desire; and even when apart of from the purpose of procreation he doesn't regard sexual intimacy as a no-no, I have to conclude that this isn't a bad thing in of itself. In fact, sexual gratification is a good thing!. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . except among those of the same sex.
So, *sigh* god
1. approves of all our body partsTherefore, I'm asking if anyone has any idea of what is so inherently bad about touching pee-pees or pearl diving that it's worth killing someone over? Just think of how innocuous homosexual acts are (no less so than those engaged in by heterosexuals). On the other hand, a man can play in the sandbox and god's just fine with it, but if a woman dare do the same, she had better start packing for hell. And, a woman can lay some lip, but a man had better keep his mouth shut.
2. approves of sexual gratification
3. approves of people of the same sex loving one another
4. disapproves of people of the same sex lovingly obtaining sexual gratification among themselves with their approved body parts.
Looked at rationally, I just can't make any sense of it. It's almost as if god randomly decided---no reasoning involved--- "Some people are going to desire those of the same sex much more than those of the opposite sex, which is just fine. And while there's nothing wrong with attaining sexual gratification if two people are of the opposite sex, this will be prohibited of people of the same. Why? Because I don't like it, that's why. And that's that!"
Now, I know that some say that trying to divine god's ways is impossible, in which case you people may be excused from participating here. But for those who do defend god and his ways by seeking to explain them, I welcome your input.
Here is the part that natural (outer) man does not see nor comprehend. 1 Cor 2:14. We are ALL "natural" in our outer man no matter what we believe within. the body is dead because of sin Romans 8:10.
God's true Word is the LIVING Word that is in the spiritual realm and we can't see it/him in the natural realm (or body) we are in. The "image" version of the living Word(s) is the written book called the Bible. It appears in a physical, written format, but every word in it points to the LIVING Word in the spiritual realm who IS the truth and the Son of God.
Man has falsely believed for centuries now that all the things God wrote about apply to the outer, natural man. NOT TRUE! It's all from and applies to the (inner) HIDDEN spiritual realm.
This is the exact location where your "soul" and spirit is right now. It's not in the natural realm where your body is. The spiritual realm is where the entire BIBLE took place and what everything is referring to. It's the very (hidden) spiritual realm on Earth and THE heavens. But, is "manifesting" or appearing here in time. The truth appears as DEATH to us in the outer man. All natural people and this entire "outer" natural realm will die. Sin (as "behavior") is a moot issue. We are all DEAD in our outer man no matter what we do or don't do. It's only about death and life via TRUE faith. This TRUE faith is NOT from us in any way. It's a 100% gift from the father through the son who has ALREADY been planted as a "seed" in all of mankind's hearts. Some have already sprung to (eternal) life. Some will wait until the next age or two. It's all according the fathers will. 1 Tim 2:6, 1 Cor 15:22!
Study the whole of the bible and see. Originally, man was just a spirit created in 3 different spiritual images, "him" (master spirit) and "them" (male and female). Then, God "formed" man and gave him a lower realm soul but this soul was also split into (at least) two parts (gardens or "cities") as well. Finally, man received a natural body or a "coat of skin". As God got lower and lower in the realms law became heavier and heavier and so did death because of greater separation from God. (Anything under the law that isn't God himself is dying). The first man was DYING as soon as the "LORD" God told him not to eat from the tree. That one command meant death whether he ate or not. Man can NOT keep himself from doing something. That would be man trying to "fulfill the law". Only God can fulfill the law (for us). The law is merely our "tutor" to show us that. GAl 3:24.
So, all the Old Testament (AND NT!) laws were not for a "natural" (outer) "Jew", they were for the spiritual JEWS or the spiritual man living in these realms. They could have been inside a natural Jew, but that wouldn't have mattered. God's word is spiritual and not natural. This entire natural realm will be burned in his holy refining fire anyway. He can't fix the flesh. Romans 8:7 It must fully die and be reborn as spiritual.
Here is something startling.
All written versions (the bible) of his Word will be destroyed too when the LIVING word appears. Ponder this verse:
"For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will Matt 24:21
"Now" = Greek "NUN" is right now at the present time. Strong's Greek: 3568. νῦν (nun) -- now, the present
Do we know for sure that this has NOT yet happened?
YES!
If it had already occurred, this verse would be a lie.
So, when the "great tribulation" DOES occur and this verse is fulfilled (at his appearance) we will not be able to find any more (written) Bibles. It has to be the total destruction of the very FORM of all things as the LIVING Word will fully replace the written word! No longer will people worship the image, but the TRUE substance.
The truth revealed in Christ (where ALL PEOPLE ARE!) is that sin is NO LONGER a "behavior". It is unbelief that he took away all your sins (as behavior) under the old covenant of law. It is futile to discuss actions unless you are PERFECT. All actions and their results will be destroyed. All of us are free from sin NOW as he spiritually circumcised our heart or inner man from our flesh or outer man. Rom 2:28-29, Col 3:11, Col 2:11-14.
This is the TRUTH that will set you free!
you already ARE free, but most of us have not been TOLD. We have been constantly told the opposite by the worldly church (that will also be destroyed btw).
You are free from all your sins. They have been spiritually "cut away" from you and have been quarantined in your body. You are NOT your body. Your body WILL DIE but YOU WILL LIVE forever.
This TRUE faith does NOT come from you, but God via his Son inside you. God will reveal this to ALL people at the correct time. Luke 3:6. PRAISE HIM!
The biggest LIE the current fleshly Church of the world under law told us to believe is that Christ was a human man. He isn't. He is a spiritual man who is the LAST ADAM and in him is ALL of creation!
That sounds like a bum deal to me. Not very fair is it?
You say that straight people (and bisexuals) have to deal with lust and fornication and all that. Fine. But they aren't forced to be virgins THEIR WHOLE LIFE. Why must a believer who happens to be gay be put under this crushing burden?
Thana
Lady
They don't have to. That's literally what I just said in the post you quoted.
No one has to do anything, I don't have to abstain from alcohol or cigarettes but I do because I want too. It's the same for homosexuals, If they want too then they should and if they don't want to then they shouldn't. It's personal and between them and God, I personally couldn't care less what they choose though and I don't judge them for anything.
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
But yet, if they choose sexual activity, they can't be right with God (because homosexuality is "wrong.")
Skwim
Veteran Member
I know some Christians like to play with the term "word"; capitalize it and infuse it with some other-worldly, god sanctified meaning, but believe me, to we outsiders it come across as self-serving, meaningless, hokum. You may delight in tagging it with mystical nuances, but to others it's a pure perversion of the word.
Do you really think anyone but the choir cares about any of this? We don't. Take this as a friendly hint: argue your point rather than preach and pontificate. .