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God and logic

I

InformedIgnorance

Do you 'know' or believe?
I agree that a concept for 'God' which is not bound by our understanding of logic, or even logic itself - is possible; however that said, the capacity for rational thought is largely dependant on the logical framework, therefore any thought we have of such a alogical existence is of suspect rationality (people can claim at times rationality and logic applies while at other times claiming thehy do not); therefore an alogical existence is one for which rational discussion is completely unreliable - for one who seeks 'truth' (for lack of a better word) or certain 'knowledge' of such an existence, these non-rational discussions while potentially useful for self-development are otherwise meaningless.


The Doors of Perception said:
No such thing exists as "supernatural". All that exists and happens is perfectly natural. Labeling something supernatural is just a way to dismiss or accept something we cannot fully and currently understand without deeper thought.
Click to expand...
I have always preferred the term preternatural because people do not have the same common understanding of the term; mind you it IS also often used as a synonym for supernatural, which I hate; but it requires people to think about what it means, rather than supernatural which is so common people already know (and then people wonder why supernatural wasnt used, which makes them think that perhaps supernatural does not fit the context)
 
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I

InformedIgnorance

Do you 'know' or believe?
If any entity is not bound by logic then simply having a characteristic, such as omnipotence, neither confers or implies the capability to do anything - logically it follows that it would, however if logic cannot be reliably applied to such an entity, logical assumptions such as omnipotence allowing the entity to do X cannot be reliably made. Such assumptions can be made, however even if such an entity is omnipotent, given that logic and thus rationality are partially suspended they remain just that - assumptions - because logical proofs (that omnipotence includes the ability to do X) are not reliable if the entity itself is not bound by logic; that does not mean that those assumptions are wrong, omnipotence may indeed confer the ability to do X, however such an assumption remains unreliable, as they are rooted within logic.
 
arthra

arthra

Baha'i
Well here's something interesting also..about Logic..It is related to the word "Logos":

logic mid-14c., "branch of philosophy that treats of forms of thinking," from O.Fr. logique, from L. (ars) logica, from Gk. logike (techne) "reasoning (art)," from fem. of logikos "pertaining to speaking or reasoning," from logos "reason, idea, word" (see logos). Meaning "logical argumentation" is from c.1600. and

logos 1580s, "second person of the Christian Trinity," from Gk. logos "word, speech, discourse," also "reason," from PIE root *leg- "to collect" (with derivatives meaning "to speak," on notion of "to pick out words;" see lecture); used by Neo-Platonists in various metaphysical and theological senses and picked up by N.T. writers.
Now "Logos" is also related to another word

Gk. logos "proportion, ratio, word"

Online Etymology Dictionary

In the begining was reason...the Word..the proportion
 
I

InformedIgnorance

Do you 'know' or believe?
You assume as much, however that is a rational assumption based on logic, if god is not bound by logic, then such assumptions may not hold true, or they may be true, or they may be both true and false, or they may be neither true nor false...
 
Thief

Thief

Rogue Theologian
The high master said:
Is God truly omnipotent then he is not bound by the laws of logic however are there more limits after logic
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God is indeed bound to logic.
But it might be better to say....'a means of thought'.

Logic is a mental construction that we use to sort through our thoughts and feelings.

God has already done so.
 
Heathen Hammer

Heathen Hammer

Nope, you're still wrong
The high master said:
If he is bound by logic then he is not limitless
Click to expand...
Nonsense, he could simply be able to do anything within the realm of possibility. That would still be omnipotence.

God cannot be illogical. If he is ulra intelligent he wouldn't fall into the flaw of illogic, since illogical thought is essentially a flaw or mistake. God wouldn't be so inept. The concept that he isn't logical is just an awkward children's game of semantics with comic book superpowers, in order to cover up bad dogma.
 
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Thief

Thief

Rogue Theologian
Heathen Hammer said:
Nonsense, he could simply be able to do anything within the realm of possibility. That would still be omnipotence.
God cannot be illogical. If he is ulra intelligent he wouldn't fall into the flaw of illogic, since illogical thought is essentially a flaw or mistake. God wouldn't be so inept. The concept that he isn't logical is just an awkward children's game of semantics with comic book superpowers, in order to cover up bad dogma.
Click to expand...

I like the first line.

May I offer....
Having created the universe, the substance of such must remain as such to be the....universe.

Superpowers?
We do seem to think of God His ability to manipulate at will.
But if our asking is contrary to the scheme of things at hand....
will our asking come into being?
I think not.

So I take with a grain of salt the notion....'ask what you will'.....
 
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