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God and Pre-universe
- Thread starter The Sum of Awe
- Start date
Thief
Rogue Theologian
evolution is one facet of the mechanism.
Thief
Rogue Theologian
Time does not exist.....you are half way there!
Ahhhh Thief,
you ignored the word 'escape'.
When one 'escapes' 'time', there isn't any 'time'.
Sooooo...all in all...I totally agree !
Before 'time', where was your God, where was that distance, at what 'point' ?
Where did 'creation' start.
I know you have an answer, don't you ?
~
'mud
you ignored the word 'escape'.
When one 'escapes' 'time', there isn't any 'time'.
Sooooo...all in all...I totally agree !
Before 'time', where was your God, where was that distance, at what 'point' ?
Where did 'creation' start.
I know you have an answer, don't you ?
~
'mud
godnotgod
Thou art That
godnotgod
Thou art That
The word 'mechanism' can have two meanings:
mechanism;
- 1.
a system of parts working together in a machine; a piece of machinery.
- 2.
a natural or established process by which something takes place or is brought about.
Gerald Kelleher
Active Member
Most people are victims of the clockwork solar system of late 17th century theorists who mistook timekeeping for Time and this was extended by the guys in the early 20th century who convinced everyone that rulers measure a quantity known as distance and clocks measure a separate and tangible quantity known as time.
If you escape timekeeping you are half way there -
What is time?
The shadow on the dial,
the striking of the clock,
the running of the sand,
day and night, summer and winter, months, years, centuries
- these are but arbitrary and outward signs,
the measure of Time, not Time itself.
Time is the Life of the soul.
Henry W. Longfellow (1807-1882)
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nazz
Doubting Thomas
It wouldn't look like anything. It would not even exist in the normal sense of that word. There was no time or space in which it could exist. I'm not saying anything much different than when scientists say the universe comes from "nothing". They don't really mean nothing in the normal sense of that word.
I'm not distinguishing between actuality and reality.
Gerald Kelleher
Active Member
You had all these guys running around a century ago chanting that 'time is not absolute' without the slightest notion that Sir Isaac was trying to describe a timekeeping facility rather than defining time. The theorists loved what Newton did but hated the clockwork solar system he conjured up so humanity has been stuck with a fictional narrative which includes 'time travel' . You could find the narrative in any science fiction section of a bookstore in the late 19th century -
‘Scientific people,’ proceeded the Time Traveller, after the pause required for the proper assimilation of this, ‘know very well that Time is only a kind of Space. " 'The Time Machine, HG Wells, 19th century
You can also have the early 20th century expensive and formal version -
" What does the word 'spacetime' mean?
It means that in our universe, 3-dimensional space and time form a single indivisible new physical object which has 4 dimensions. All physical laws and phenomena seem to require thinking about space and time as this blended object. That's what Einstein's relativity theories were all about."
Gravity Probe B - Special & General Relativity Questions and Answers
I happen to be a Christian and the connection between temporal life and the great life that encompasses it is a backdrop against which I connect with nature and my own evolution as well as participation in all that is seen. If the Church can afford to live with conceptions that people can somehow control time by moving quickly then it is hardly a Church anymore, at least one that represents Christ and Christianity.
godnotgod
Thou art That
Thief
Rogue Theologian
Thief
Rogue Theologian
The last line is correct....however...
time is not a substance or force.
NOT tangible by any means.
godnotgod
Thou art That
Actually, I think you got it wrong, as your reference to 'mechanism' was in response to my discussion about 'parts', as in 'parts of a mechanism'.
Gerald Kelleher
Active Member
Ah but you see that is where the empiricists did so much damage by convincing themselves that time is a tangible quantity and clocks change as a result of moving quickly through this quantity known as spacetime -
Time Dilation - How Special Relativity Works
Long story.
hey GNG,
When one has captured the 'now', the 'now' will have left one in the past.
One will be a memory of that 'now', there is only the future,
yesterday and 'now' will be gone before the present passes.
Reality is only a passing thought, we have to reach for tomorrow.
There are no real capturers, all they get is a kiss on the cheek.
Nuff Stuff
~
'mud
When one has captured the 'now', the 'now' will have left one in the past.
One will be a memory of that 'now', there is only the future,
yesterday and 'now' will be gone before the present passes.
Reality is only a passing thought, we have to reach for tomorrow.
There are no real capturers, all they get is a kiss on the cheek.
Nuff Stuff
~
'mud
Thief
Rogue Theologian
Gerald Kelleher
Active Member
Although a Christian, I still admire those wonderful men in antiquity who considered the relationship of body and mind to time and motion in contrast to the spirit immersed in the Eternal where concepts like 'before and after' dissolve. The Timelessness is, in the words of Dante - "the love that moves the Sun and other stars".
"Succession or repetition gives us Number- day,triad ,decade etc.- and the extent traversed is a matter of Magnitude; thus we have Quantity of Movement- in the form of number, day, triad, decade, or in the form of extent apprehended in what we may call the amount of the Movement: but, the idea of Time we have not. That definite Quantity is merely something occurring within Time, for, otherwise Time is not everywhere but is something belonging to Movement which thus would be its substratum or basic-stuff: once more, then, we would be making Time identical with Movement; for the extent of Movement is not something outside it but is simply its continuousness, and we need not halt upon the difference between the momentary and the continuous, which is simply one of manner and degree. The extended movement and its extent are not Time; they are in Time. Those that explain Time as extent of Movement must mean not the extent of the movement itself but something which determines its extension, something with which the movement keeps pace in its course. But what this something is, we are not told; yet it is, clearly, Time, that in which all Movement proceeds. This is what our discussion has aimed at from the first: "What, essentially, is Time?" It comes to this: we ask "What is Time?" and we are answered, "Time is the extension of Movement in Time!"
The Enneads of Plotinus: THE THIRD ENNEAD: SEVENTH TRACTATE: Section 8
Don't know if you like that description by Plotinus but there is a practical 21st century element which I have tried to promote over the last week. The natural rhythms of the body keep pace with movement that contemporaries dump into a clock and call that 'quantity' time. It is not only drastic ,it prevents people from using their higher reasoning in learning to appreciate how mind relates to body, both to their immediate surrounding and on to the great cycles of the Earth and the solar system.
Let me know what you think.
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