God explaining himself?

[Eddi]

OK, so one of the qualities of God is that he is ineffable - at least to us humans and presumably not to himself...

But he is also all-powerful...

So wouldn't that mean that he is capable of explaining the mysteries of his true nature to we humans?

Which in a roundabout way would mean that he is not really necessarially ineffable?

Basically: could God ever tell us exactly how exactly he himself works? - For instance, how his mind works and how he interacts with his creation - indeed how exactly he made his creation, as in what mechanisms were employed? - could he ever tell us how exactly he went about making something out of nothing in such a way that we would actually understand?

Are humans capable of learning to understand how God works?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Are humans capable of learning to understand how God works?

No is the short answer.

God speaks to us through His Messengers.

We get to know of God by what the Messengers reveals to us. They also give a message that is relevant to out capacity to understand.

Baha'u'llah disposed of a lot of Revelation from God, saying mankind was not ready for it.

We have proved we are not ready, we still destroy ourselves and the world we live in.

How strange, how very strange. Why do we not listen?

Regards Tony

 

[dybmh]

So wouldn't that mean that he is capable of explaining the mysteries of his true nature to we humans?

Not without negative side effects. If the mysteries were explained then faith would no longer exist.

 

[Eddi]

Not without negative side effects. If the mysteries were explained then faith would no longer exist.

But wouldn't knowing the mysteries be better than just having faith?

I have a thought experiment for you:

If God gave you an envelope containing a letter that explained all his mysteries what would you do with it?

 

[dybmh]

But wouldn't knowing the mysteries be better than just having faith?

I have a thought experiment for you:

If God gave you an envelope containing a letter that explained all his mysteries what would you do with it?

It's a good point; I suppose I would open the envelope and study the contents. But I think this overlooks what God wants. It seems to me that God values faith more than knowledge.

 

[Eddi]

But I think this overlooks what God wants. It seems to me that God values faith more than knowledge.

Maybe that is the case now and in the past

But what if it is our destiny to eventually learn how God works? When we are ready to?

It is written that God created humankind in his image...

Perhaps this is hinting at a future era in which we will have knowledge of God as opposed to just having faith? Because God (presumably????) knows how God works?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

OK, so one of the qualities of God is that he is ineffable - at least to us humans and presumably not to himself...

But he is also all-powerful...

... except on Thursdays.

(There seems to be two classes of people who vie for appreciation: those certain about what god is and those certain that god isn't. I can only marvel at such certainty.)

 

[dybmh]

Maybe that is the case now and in the past

But what if it is our destiny to eventually learn how God works? When we are ready to?

It is written that God created humankind in his image...

Perhaps this is hinting at a future era in which we will have knowledge of God as opposed to just having faith? Because God (presumably????) knows how God works?

I tend to think that eventhough people were made in God's image, that doesn't mean God can be understood. For example, God is eternal. Trying to understand how that works is very very difficult. One would need to omit Time constraints from their understanding. I'm not sure that it can be done.

 

[Eddi]

I tend to think that eventhough people were made in God's image, that doesn't mean God can be understood. For example, God is eternal. Trying to understand how that works is very very difficult. One would need to omit Time constraints from their understanding. I'm not sure that it can be done.

It's interesting that you brought up the issue of time...

I have been pondering that a lot lately, I've drawn diagrams and stuff to try to better understand it

I have come to the conclusion that God transcends time, that he exists outside of it and that for him past present and future are all effectively occurring at once

I believe that for God causation can effectively happen in non-chronological order

Indeed I believe that chronological order and linear time is an illusion

It's mind-bending stuff but I don't think it's beyond human comprehension

Although I am not claiming to be able to comprehend it, not at all

 

[The Hammer]

So wouldn't that mean that he is capable of explaining the mysteries of his true nature to we humans?

This is just another rehash of the argument "could God create something he himself could not move?"

 

[The Hammer]

Trying to understand how that works is very very difficult. One would need to omit Time constraints from their understanding. I'm not sure that it can be done.

It can be done, but I don't think the average person enjoys it when they do.

 

[dybmh]

It can be done, but I don't think the average person enjoys it when they do.

Kind of like walking into the eye of a storm? The walking part would be very difficult?

 

[Bird123]

OK, so one of the qualities of God is that he is ineffable - at least to us humans and presumably not to himself...

But he is also all-powerful...

So wouldn't that mean that he is capable of explaining the mysteries of his true nature to we humans?

Which in a roundabout way would mean that he is not really necessarially ineffable?

Basically: could God ever tell us exactly how exactly he himself works? - For instance, how his mind works and how he interacts with his creation - indeed how exactly he made his creation, as in what mechanisms were employed? - could he ever tell us how exactly he went about making something out of nothing in such a way that we would actually understand?

Are humans capable of learning to understand how God works?

You are in the process of learning all these things and so much more. God places knowledge around us all. All the secrets stare us all in the face. Wisdom is acquired on the journey to Discover it all.

There really are no short cuts. Example: If God explained how your car worked, how long would you remember? The next time your car broke down could you repair it??

On the other hand, if you struggled to create a car, you would never be able to create one until you figured out how. The struggle to acquire the knowledge would remind you of the need to remember what it takes to make it all work. If you were merely given the car, you wouldn't care how it worked. You would just enjoy the ride.

Which is the best way to educate your children? Giving knowledge or making knowledge available along the journey to Discover it all? Clearly, God wants us all to acquire wisdom.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Suave]

OK, so one of the qualities of God is that he is ineffable - at least to us humans and presumably not to himself...

But he is also all-powerful...

So wouldn't that mean that he is capable of explaining the mysteries of his true nature to we humans?

Which in a roundabout way would mean that he is not really necessarially ineffable?

Basically: could God ever tell us exactly how exactly he himself works? - For instance, how his mind works and how he interacts with his creation - indeed how exactly he made his creation, as in what mechanisms were employed? - could he ever tell us how exactly he went about making something out of nothing in such a way that we would actually understand?

Are humans capable of learning to understand how God works?

I figure God very well might be a posthuman civilization having us simulated as being their ancestors.

 

[AlexanderG]

Given the attributes asserted by theism, a god could have created humans with the ability to comprehend him. He chose not to. What is god hiding? I guess he could be evil and just lie to us, and we would never know it.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Given the attributes asserted by theism, a god could have created humans with the ability to comprehend him. He chose not to. What is god hiding? I guess he could be evil and just lie to us, and we would never know it.

All we need to do is read the Old Testament to know what the Christian God is like. The Bible says that God ordered his followers to kill other people and wipe them off the face of the earth, and he sent a global flood to kill off the entire human race (except for Noah and his family) because he was enraged that people were sinning against him. That's not to mention the fact that this God purposely causes disasters and calamities, which he admitted to doing. He actually admitted to creating evil, disasters, and calamities (Isa. 45:7).

Isaiah 45:7

KJV: "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things."

Evil:
1. Morally bad or wrong; wicked, 2. Causing ruin, injury, or pain; harmful, 3. Characterized by or indicating misfortune; ominous.

NIV: "I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things."

Disaster:
1. An occurrence causing widespread destruction and distress; a catastrophe; 2. A grave misfortune, and 3. A total failure.

ESV: "I form light and create darkness; I make well-being and create calamity; I am the LORD, who does all these things."

Calamity: 1. An event that brings terrible loss, lasting distress, or severe affliction; a disaster, 2. Dire distress resulting from loss or tragedy; 3. Any great misfortune or cause of misery; in general, any event or disaster which produces extensive evils, as loss of crops, earthquakes, etc., but also applied to any misfortune which brings great distress on a person; misfortune; distress; adversity.

 

[Brian2]

No is the short answer.

God speaks to us through His Messengers.

We get to know of God by what the Messengers reveals to us. They also give a message that is relevant to out capacity to understand.

Baha'u'llah disposed of a lot of Revelation from God, saying mankind was not ready for it.

We have proved we are not ready, we still destroy ourselves and the world we live in.

How strange, how very strange. Why do we not listen?

Regards Tony

Really? He disposed of a lot of revelation?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Really? He disposed of a lot of revelation?

No. We can only understand God via the Messengers, they are the only people that give direct Revelation, believers can pass on what they offered, but only to the extent they mirror what the Messangers have offered.

As such, we have the Messemgers and then the disciples and saints that reflect those Messages.

Regards Tony

All the rest is vain imaginings born from our own self.

 

[Eddi]

I figure God very well might be a posthuman civilization having us simulated as being their ancestors.

I think that the entity we know of as "God" is in fact The Simulation

However, I believe that above The Simulation there is a Supreme Being

 

[ElishaElijah]

OK, so one of the qualities of God is that he is ineffable - at least to us humans and presumably not to himself...

But he is also all-powerful...

So wouldn't that mean that he is capable of explaining the mysteries of his true nature to we humans?

Which in a roundabout way would mean that he is not really necessarially ineffable?

Basically: could God ever tell us exactly how exactly he himself works? - For instance, how his mind works and how he interacts with his creation - indeed how exactly he made his creation, as in what mechanisms were employed? - could he ever tell us how exactly he went about making something out of nothing in such a way that we would actually understand?

Are humans capable of learning to understand how God works?

There is a lot we can know and understand about God but only in part. There is a time coming when we will know Him fully.
“For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I will know fully, as I am fully known.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭13:12‬ ‭CSB‬‬