God is an exhaulted Man

[Desert Snake]

Conjecture? I can't say I'm familiar with that word... can you help me out here?

Hey I just said God is from a different planet than our own, is that not self evident?
It is doctrine however that God did live a mortal life at some point in the past. Read The King Follet Sermon by the prophet Joseph Smith Jr. in the April Ensign of 1971 on LDS.org. Also note when it states that Joseph Smith gave this sermon at a funeral in a public setting just a few months before he was martyred, and it was very likely that there were people in the audience who were plotting his martyrdom, who he addresses several times throughout the sermon. I love this talk.

The King Follett Sermon - Ensign Apr. 1971

Correct me if I'm wrong, but from my understanding it goes earth/planet, Solar System, Galaxy, Universe. Universe is everything else out there and it goes on with out end. I can't say I've ever heard of there being other universes out there. I think it is self evident that God is not from our planet.

As to God creating all things. Tell me if this makes sense to you, or if you disagree. In the King Follet Sermon, Joseph Smith mentions Heavenly Father once lived a mortal life, alluding to Heavenly Father having a Father in Heaven. So in order to become God, he needed to become one with His Father in Heaven, who is one with His Father in Heaven, and on and on for all eternity. (If you could Hie to Kolob...) So just as the God Head is one God yet 3, there is actually alot more out there who are one with God, so technically saying all of the Heavenly Fathers out there are one God, so there is no problem stating that there is only one Universe. I'm sorry if I am over complicating things, but is this not true? and does it make sense on how God created all things?

If I can find a question I can not answer, I have no problem in simply stating I don't know. I actually really look for questions I can not answer, it makes my scripture study more interesting and it keeps me learning.

I do admit though that I've only been doing the Religious Forum thing for a few days now. I love it, it is super addicting and extreamly fun.

can you explain the different viewpoints expressed by the LDS members?....They're quite different...... you seem to know the Book of Mormon....

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

can you explain the different viewpoints expressed by the LDS members?....They're quite different...... you seem to know the Book of Mormon....

The different viewpoints? I don't think I understand,give me some examples of different viewpoints in some other religions and maybe I might be able to come up with some in our own.

 

[Desert Snake]

The different viewpoints? I don't think I understand,give me some examples of different viewpoints in some other religions and maybe I might be able to come up with some in our own.

I mean the...other.... viewpoint that is ALl OVER these forums from other LDS members, I actually assumed it was the stance in the Book of Mormon......No biggie, I'll check it out.

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

i mean the...other.... Viewpoint that is all over these forums from other lds members, i actually assumed it was the stance in the book of mormon......no biggie, i'll check it out.

? ? ? ?

 

[Desert Snake]

? ? ? ?

O.k. never mind I'll read through the thread again.....

 

[Katzpur]

I mean the...other.... viewpoint that is ALl OVER these forums from other LDS members, I actually assumed it was the stance in the Book of Mormon......No biggie, I'll check it out.

The Book of Mormon is one of four volumes of scriptures the LDS people refer to as "The Standard Works." They are (1) The Holy Bible (KJV is preferred), (2) The Book of Mormon, (3) The Doctrine and Covenants, and (4) The Pearl of Great Price. Together, these constitute the LDS canon. These books contain our official doctrine. The only other writings/statements that might be considered doctrinally binding are proclamations made by the entire First Presidency of the Church and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles -- collectively. Other individual writings and statements by any one of them should problably be considered to be their own opinions and interpretations of what is found in the Standard Works. If something contradicts what is in the official canon, it's probably not true, and if it can't be backed up by what's in the canon, it's merely speculation on the part of the speaker or writer. It makes it very easy to identify what our actually doctrines are and what's just someone's opinion. Opinions can, of course, be correct. They're just not doctrinally binding and don't represent the official position of the Church's leadership. That's why my posts will always reflect what can be backed up in the Standard Works.

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

there are a lot of other things that are considered doctrine too.
(Church Magazines, Church Manuals, the church videos, and other books.)
What to look for on each of these, to know if it is doctrine, is the Church Stamp of Approval (The Church Logo) on the front or back of any of these items.

 

[sojourner]

I don't think so. if that were so I think all of God's children would look exactly alike. I could be wrong, but as to whether or not we lose our particularity/ /individual creativity/ personality I doubt it. If that were to happen I don't think God would give us so many choices through life. When I say be one with God I mean there is not a thing we would do that God would not approve of, and we would do this out of our own free will and choice.

God isn't particular, if God is omnipresent. Therefore, we, who are particular beings, will, at some point, lose our particularity if we become what God is. Have you thoroughly thought this out, or are you merely spouting the party line here?

 

[sojourner]

So what exactly do you believe in? Do you believe in the Bible? Do you believe Christ when he stated that God is our Father in Heaven? Do you
believe Christ when he stated that we are God's children? Do you believe
the Bible when it mentions that we are "heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together." and then also in John Chapter 10 when it states
"34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath asanctified, and bsent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

The Bible testifies of these things clearly.

What can I say more?

I believe all these things. I further believe that there is a distinct division between humanity and Divinity, as implied in Genesis, and that God blurred that distinction when God became Incarnate. The Bible testifies these things, too.

 

[sojourner]

One can pray and receive answers.

More often, one prays and receives more questions...

A great way to test God is with a Checklist. I write down every principal of the Gospel I can think of starting with prayer, praying to know if God exists. When I get my answer directly from God, I put down a check on my checklist and move on to the next item, and then when I can check that off, I go right on down the list. After awhile it's like check, check, check, check and before long when you get to a box that you don't have checked off yet, you can look at all of your other checks and have a pretty good idea that the next check is going to be true too. I call it faith, to be able to act on that principal of the gospel without knowing for a surety that it is true.

That's not faith. It's a security-blanket.

 

[sojourner]

"Answers to prayers come in may ways. They often come through the still, small voice of the Holy Ghost. They may come in the circumstances in your life, or through the kind acts of those around you. As one continues to draw near to Heavenly Father through prayer, one will recognize more readily His merciful and wise answers to one's pleadings. One will find that God is one's refuge and strength, a very present help in trouble."

"If a man shall pray, and not with real intent of heart, it profitith him nothing, for God receiveth none such." This is a big reason why many prayers go unanswered. Another thing, Jesus Christ taught us that when we pray, that we must pray in Christs name, and many prayers go unanswered because they in no way represent the will of Christ.

You need to cite your sources here.
You were doing well right up until you wrote, "Another thing..."

 

[sojourner]

Read the second part of this quote carefully, according to the Bible, at one time back before this world was created, our Father in Heaven once died and was resurrected again. I find that super fascinating.

Another question to bring up would be the meaning of eternal life.
Heavenly Father is an Eternal being, meaning he has no begging and no end, he has always existed. The interesting thing to think about is
God wants us to have eternal life. Meaning we can live together forever with God in heaven. Is it not God's work and his glory to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of Man? My question is how can we have eternal life (life with no beginning and no end if we have a begging, if God as you say created us from out of nothing.

Drivel. Without an ounce of real exegesis to support it.

 

[sojourner]

Well, lets look at Jesus Christ. Going with Godhead not Trinity,
(if you want to debate Godhead and Trinity go to my other thread)
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/comparative-religion/118705-godhead-trinity.html

Before Christ was born he was a spirit. Christ is our spiritual brother. Before we were born we were also spirits. We have always existed, just as God has always existed, other wise we could never have eternal life (life with no beginning and no end.) We are all God's children, that is why we all look like He does, (Adam was made in God's image.) God really does love and care about us that is why he gives us commandments. When we follow God's commandments we become more like him.
"For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life."
~ John 3:16 (Perishing or spiritual death, does not mean ceasing to exist, it means our spiritual progression dies and we wont be able to reach our full potential and be Gods someday like our Heavenly Father.
The Atonement of Jesus Christ made it so we can repent of our sins (which inhibit our spiritual growth and separate us from God.) Through Jesus Christs Atonement and our continual repentance, one day we can be perfect and one day we can be Gods just like our Heavenly Father.

There are more things I would like to say, but I want to make sure you understand that much so far, do you have any questions about any of that?

This is reason # 23 of my 57 reasons why I can never be a Mormon, nor agree that they are "the only true church.?"

But it is a fascinating take.

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

God isn't particular, if God is omnipresent. Therefore, we, who are particular beings, will, at some point, lose our particularity if we become what God is. Have you thoroughly thought this out, or are you merely spouting the party line here?

par·tic·u·lar   [per-tik-yuh-ler, puh-tik-] Show IPA
adjective
1.
of or pertaining to a single or specific person, thing, group, class, occasion, etc., rather than to others or all; special rather than general: one's particular interests in books.
2.
immediately present or under consideration; in this specific instance or place: Look at this particular clause in the contract.
3.
distinguished or different from others or from the ordinary; noteworthy; marked; unusual: She sang with particular warmth at last evening's concert.
4.
exceptional or especial: Take particular pains with this job.
5.
being such in an exceptional degree: a particular friend of mine.

Which definitiion of particular are you using?

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

I believe all these things. I further believe that there is a distinct division between humanity and Divinity, as implied in Genesis, and that God blurred that distinction when God became Incarnate. The Bible testifies these things, too.

You just said that you believe in all of these things, even when the Bible said ye are gods and joint heirs in Christ, putting us at one with God. You must have a different interpertationn of these scriptures, either that or you completely ignored them.

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

I believe all these things. I further believe that there is a distinct division between humanity and Divinity, as implied in Genesis, and that God blurred that distinction when God became Incarnate. The Bible testifies these things, too.

What about the scriptures
Adam was made in God's image
and Moses talked with God face to face as a man speaketh unto his friend?
And to you what was the point of Christ's resurrection if it were not reclaim his physical body, which He needed in order to to fullill a greater purpose/ goal. Do you think Christ was resurrected, got his body back to talk to men and then shed it off again somewhere?
Are you a believer in the Godhead, or in the Trinity? That kind of makes a big difference right here in the fact that we believe that
"The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s; the Son also; but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit. Were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us."

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

Maybe I have described things poorly,
This is one of my favorite passage on faith.
It is found in the Book of Mormon, in the Book of Alma Chapter 32.
I really don't think it gets much better than this. Please tell me what you think of this passage, (Not the Book of Mormon as a whole, we can talk about that later, just this passage. It really is wonderful.)

"17Yea, there are many who do say: If thou wilt show unto us a sign from heaven, then we shall know of a surety; then we shall believe.

18Now I ask, is this faith? Behold, I say unto you, Nay; for if a man knoweth a thing he hath no cause to believe, for he knoweth it.

19And now, how much more cursed is he that knoweth the will of God and doeth it not, than he that only believeth, or only hath cause to believe, and falleth into transgression?

20Now of this thing ye must judge. Behold, I say unto you, that it is on the one hand even as it is on the other; and it shall be unto every man according to his work.

21And now as I said concerning faith—faith is not to have a perfect knowledge of things; therefore if ye have faith ye hope for things which are not seen, which are true.

22And now, behold, I say unto you, and I would that ye should remember, that God is merciful unto all who believe on his name; therefore he desireth, in the first place, that ye should believe, yea, even on his word."
"26Now, as I said concerning faith—that it was not a perfect knowledge—even so it is with my words. Ye cannot know of their surety at first, unto perfection, any more than faith is a perfect knowledge.

27But behold, if ye will awake and arouse your faculties, even to an experiment upon my words, and exercise a particle of faith, yea, even if ye can no more than desire to believe, let this desire work in you, even until ye believe in a manner that ye can give place for a portion of my words.

28Now, we will compare the word unto a seed. Now, if ye give place, that a seed may be planted in your heart, behold, if it be a true seed, or a good seed, if ye do not cast it out by your unbelief, that ye will resist the Spirit of the Lord, behold, it will begin to swell within your breasts; and when you feel these swelling motions, ye will begin to say within yourselves—It must needs be that this is a good seed, or that the word is good, for it beginneth to enlarge my soul; yea, it beginneth to enlighten my understanding, yea, it beginneth to be delicious to me.

29Now behold, would not this increase your faith? I say unto you, Yea; nevertheless it hath not grown up to a perfect knowledge.

30But behold, as the seed swelleth, and sprouteth, and beginneth to grow, then you must needs say that the seed is good; for behold it swelleth, and sprouteth, and beginneth to grow. And now, behold, will not this strengthen your faith? Yea, it will strengthen your faith: for ye will say I know that this is a good seed; for behold it sprouteth and beginneth to grow.

31And now, behold, are ye sure that this is a good seed? I say unto you, Yea; for every seed bringeth forth unto its own likeness.

32Therefore, if a seed groweth it is good, but if it groweth not, behold it is not good, therefore it is cast away.

33And now, behold, because ye have tried the experiment, and planted the seed, and it swelleth and sprouteth, and beginneth to grow, ye must needs know that the seed is good.

34And now, behold, is your knowledge perfect? Yea, your knowledge is perfect in that thing, and your faith is dormant; and this because you know, for ye know that the word hath swelled your souls, and ye also know that it hath sprouted up, that your understanding doth begin to be enlightened, and your mind doth begin to expand.

35O then, is not this real? I say unto you, Yea, because it is light; and whatsoever is light, is good, because it is discernible, therefore ye must know that it is good; and now behold, after ye have tasted this light is your knowledge perfect?

36Behold I say unto you, Nay; neither must ye lay aside your faith, for ye have only exercised your faith to plant the seed that ye might try the experiment to know if the seed was good.

37And behold, as the tree beginneth to grow, ye will say: Let us nourish it with great care, that it may get root, that it may grow up, and bring forth fruit unto us. And now behold, if ye nourish it with much care it will get root, and grow up, and bring forth fruit.

38But if ye aneglect the tree, and take no thought for its nourishment, behold it will not get any root; and when the heat of the sun cometh and scorcheth it, because it hath no root it withers away, and ye pluck it up and cast it out.

39Now, this is not because the seed was not good, neither is it because the fruit thereof would not be desirable; but it is because your ground is barren, and ye will not nourish the tree, therefore ye cannot have the fruit thereof.

40And thus, if ye will not nourish the word, looking forward with an eye of faith to the fruit thereof, ye can never pluck of the fruit of the tree of life.

41But if ye will nourish the word, yea, nourish the tree as it beginneth to grow, by your faith with great diligence, and with patience, looking forward to the fruit thereof, it shall take root; and behold it shall be a tree springing up unto everlasting life.

42And because of your diligence and your faith and your patience with the word in nourishing it, that it may take root in you, behold, by and by ye shall pluck the bfruit thereof, which is most precious, which is sweet above all that is sweet, and which is white above all that is white, yea, and pure above all that is pure; and ye shall feast upon this fruit even until ye are filled, that ye hunger not, neither shall ye thirst.

43Then, my brethren, ye shall reap the rewards of your faith, and your diligence, and patience, and long-suffering, waiting for the tree to bring forth fruit unto you.

 

[Willamena]

Which definitiion of particular are you using?

He was using #1.

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

As to God not being particlular, what do you have to support that? Is it just the omnipresence thing?
Has it ever crossed your mind that God the Father is omnipresent through the Holy Ghost? I can't say that I know that for certain, I've got to go find a good source to confirm this as doctrine, but it is a possibility among many.

 

[sojourner]

par·tic·u·lar   [per-tik-yuh-ler, puh-tik-] Show IPA
adjective
1.
of or pertaining to a single or specific person, thing, group, class, occasion, etc., rather than to others or all; special rather than general: one's particular interests in books.
2.
immediately present or under consideration; in this specific instance or place: Look at this particular clause in the contract.
3.
distinguished or different from others or from the ordinary; noteworthy; marked; unusual: She sang with particular warmth at last evening's concert.
4.
exceptional or especial: Take particular pains with this job.
5.
being such in an exceptional degree: a particular friend of mine.

Which definitiion of particular are you using?

#1 will do.