I have threads that I demonstrate God exists.
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God is nice and is doing his best to eliminate suffering.
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I have threads that I demonstrate God exists.
ppp
Well-Known Member
Ive read those. You inevitably blow up completely by p3 or p4
Try a small post instead of a big one. Where you propose and get feedback on a single, solitary argument.
Why do you mean blow up?
Bird123
Well-Known Member
To what end??
ppp
Well-Known Member
Remind me of the last thread the you started with an enumeration of premises leading to that conclusion. p1, p2, etc
Bird123
Well-Known Member
Sure, tell me what I need to do
I asked you a question. And you reply with a question?
I going to read up how to set up those one on one debate threads. I been to two of them so far. It's been a while, I forget if I can just make the thread or need to ask a moderator.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
It is not possible to 'demonstrate' that God exists, so we just have to work with belief, which is based upon the evidence that is available.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
No, life is not fair at all. You will never get an argument from me trying to convince you that life is fair, and that God is just, because I don't believe that.
Why did you get an easy life and I got a hard life? Only God knows the answer to that and He is keeping that under His hat. I could conjecture till the cows come home, but that would only be my personal opinion. Religious apologists will have an answer for you to cover for their loving God but you won't catch me doing that.
It is a miracle I am still alive with all the suffering I have had to endure, especially lately. One more thing God throws as me and it is curtains, God also knows that, so the tide had better be turning soon or I will be soon meeting my Maker.
ppp
Well-Known Member
Yep.. I replied on one of your threads last week, but dont recall which thread it was. If you did recall the thread I was going to point to my specific comments to your specific premises. Is there something wrong with that?
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Bird123 vs Link: "Is Hell a rational belief?" | Religious Forums
@Trailblazer you wanted to know if I made the thread. That's the link, but I'm Link, and that's not me but Link is in the link.
ppp
Well-Known Member
Sure. God as described is both incoherent and a non falsifiable hypothesis. Which means that there is no reason to conclude that anyone claiming that a god exists is justified in that claim. That inability to demonstrate does not eliminate the requirement to demonstrate.
Until he can demonstrate that there is a god, his purported consequences of not having one is irrelevant. If we cannot have peace without his god, and his god does not exist, then we will simply never have peace. The alleged consequences of either his or your respective god assertions being wrong do not make the assertions of a god correct.
It was for the purpose of presenting a theodicy as far as this thread goes.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Thanks. I have to see this thread. It should be a good show.
ppp
Well-Known Member
Theodicy is only about solving the problem of evil. The problem of evil only applies to purported beings that are claimed to be omnipotent, omniscient and omnibenevolent. An omnibenevolent prioritize the elimination of suffering. An omniscient being would know how to eliminate suffering. An omnipotent being would be capable of eliminating suffering. As such, if such a being existed then there would be no suffering, and there never would have been.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
As I think I already told you, I don't think anyone should claim that God exists since nobody can ever prove that God exists. All we believers can ever do is believe that God exists.
If a believer claims that God exists the inability to demonstrate that does not eliminate the requirement to demonstrate that.
I never claimed that we cannot have peace without God. I guess you are referring to another believer.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
The problem of evil only applies to humans because every evil thing comes from humans. Evil is the result of humans who break the Laws of God. For example, rape and murder are the result of breaking the Laws of God.
“God hath in that Book, and by His behest, decreed as lawful whatsoever He hath pleased to decree, and hath, through the power of His sovereign might, forbidden whatsoever He elected to forbid. To this testifieth the text of that Book. Will ye not bear witness? Men, however, have wittingly broken His law. Is such a behavior to be attributed to God, or to their proper selves? Be fair in your judgment. Every good thing is of God, and every evil thing is from yourselves. Will ye not comprehend? This same truth hath been revealed in all the Scriptures, if ye be of them that understand.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 149-150
God is responsible for some of the suffering in the world but suffering is not the same as evil.
Suffering exists because we live in a material world where suffering is unavoidable.
An omniscient being would know how to eliminate suffering and an omnipotent being would be capable of eliminating suffering, but there is no reason to believe that a God that is omnipotent, omniscient and benevolent would prioritize the elimination of suffering.
I'm not sure where you get the term omnibenevolent as that does not appear in scriptures. It means that God is all-good or perfectly good. The Baha'i scriptures refer to God as benevolent, which means the same thing.
Suffering exists for the benefit of humans so the benevolent God created a world in which there is suffering. Not everyone benefits from suffering but this physical world gives us an opportunity to benefit from it.
This earthly life is just a very small part of our total existence. In the next life there will be no more suffering for the reasons we experience it here because that life is not physical, it is spiritual. If we suffer in the next life it will be because we have not acquired the necessary spiritual qualities we wil need in a purely spiritual world.
ppp
Well-Known Member
You have said that. However that paragraph carries the implicit and incorrect presumption that asserting one's beliefs is somehow different from making claims. So, I reject it.
I didn't say you did. In fact I took pains to recognize that your god assertions and his god assertions are different sets of assertions.
That is what the respective in "...either his or your respective god assertions ..." means.