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God Is Not Father

jeffrey

†ßig Dog†
God is father to all. He created all things, He is, always has been and always will be God. You can quote as many verses as you wish, which are verses that man created. I look at God's creations, not mans. He is father to my tree out back. He is father to the winds. He is father to all nature on earth. We cannot understand him, just respect him through his creations, as you are supposed to respect your father.. The father of all.
 

dawny0826

Mother Heathen
6- The GOD of the O.T. Punishes to death those who cursed HIS HOLY NAME.
The Old testament is full of errors; many Christians see the Old testament as nothing more than a badly written history book, with parables.

Not this Christian.
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
hanif said:
DERA MICHEL I LOVED YOU.
"And (appoint him) a messenger to the Children of Israel, (with this message): "'I have come to you, with a Sign from your Lord, in that I make for you out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, and breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by Allah's leave: And I heal those born blind, and the lepers, and I quicken the dead, by Allah's leave; and I declare to you what ye eat, and what ye store in your houses. Surely therein is a Sign for you if ye did believe
JESUS IS NOT ONLY PROPHET OF CHRISTIANS SO I CAN SPEAK ON JESUS.
I AM SURE THAT OLD TESTAMEN FULL OF ERRORS.

Hanif,

I have a shortcut, on my desktop, for an eventuality such as this one.
www.catholic.org
OME, MAY 21, 2005 (Zenit) - In a commentary on this Sunday's Gospel passage, Capuchin Father Raniero Cantalamessa, the preacher of the Pontifical Household, comments that the Trinity is a model for the whole human community because it shows how love creates unity out of diversity.
John (3:16-18)
At that time, Jesus said to Nicodemus: "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God sent the Son into the world, not to condemn the world, but that the world might be saved through him. He who believes in him is not condemned; he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God."
The Source of Love
The second reading of today's liturgy, taken from the second letter of St. Paul to the Corinthians, is the one that most directly evokes the mystery of the Most Holy Trinity: "The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, the love of God and the communion of the Holy Spirit be with you." But, why do Christians believe in the Trinity? Isn't it difficult enough to believe that God exists, that we must also have added to it the enigma that he is "one and triune?" There are some today who would not be unhappy to leave the Trinity to one side, to be able to dialogue better with Jews and Muslims, who profess faith in a God who is rigidly one.
Christians believe that God is triune because they believe that God is love! It is the revelation of God as love, made by Jesus, which has obliges us to admit the Trinity. It is not a human invention. There is no love for the void, no love that is not directed to someone. So we must ask: who does God love to be defined as love? A first answer might be: He loves mankind. But we have existed for some millions of years, no more. And before then, who did God love? He could not in fact have begun to be love at a certain point in time, because God cannot change.
Second answer: Before then he loved the cosmos, the universe. But the universe has existed for some thousands of millions of years. Before then, who did God love to be able to define himself as love? We cannot say that he loved himself because to love oneself is not love, but egoism or, as psychologists say, narcissism.
Here is the answer of Christian revelation. God is love in himself, before time, because he has always had in himself a Son, the word, whom he loves with an infinite love, that is, in the Holy Spirit. In all love there are always three realities or subjects: one who loves, one who is loved, and the love that unites them.
The God of Christian revelation is one and triune because he is communion of love. Theology has made use of the term "nature" or "substance" to indicate unity in God, and of the term "person" to indicate the distinction. Because of this we say that our God is one God in three persons. The Christian doctrine of the Trinity is not a regression, a compromise between monotheism and polytheism. It is a step further that only God himself could make the human mind take.
Let us now turn to some practical considerations. The Trinity is the model of every human community, from the most simple and elemental, which is the family, to the universal Church. It shows how love creates unity out of diversity: unity of intentions, of thought, of will; diversity of subjects, of characteristics and, in the human realm, of sex. And we see, specifically, what a family can learn from the Trinitarian model.
If we read the New Testament with care, we observe a sort of rule. Each one of the three divine persons does not speak about himself, but about the other; does not attract attention to himself, but to the other. Every time the Father speaks in the Gospel he does so always to reveal something of the Son. Jesus, in turn, speaks only of the Father. When the Holy Spirit reaches a believer's heart, he does not teach him to say his name, which in Hebrew is "Ruah," but teaches him to say "Abba," which is the Father's name.
Let's try to think what this style would bring about if it were transferred to family life. The father, who is not so concerned about asserting his authority as that of the mother; the mother, who before teaching the child to say "Mommy," teaches him to say "Daddy." If this style was imitated in our families and communities, they would truly become a reflection of the Trinity on earth, places where love is the rule that governs everything.
[Italian original published by "Famiglia Cristiana"]
[Translation by ZENIT]
www.catholic.org

I presume this was originally posted by Scott1; unfortunately, I omitted that information, when I copied it.

dawny0826 said:
Not this Christian.

Sorry Dawny, My own personal view, of course. No offence meant.:hug:
 

hanif

Member
Of Course God Is The Creator Of All Things.but He Dont Begets.he Creates
So There Is Nothing To Equal To Him.heis Only One.
Creatures Of Him Is Not Childs Of Him.
 

hanif

Member
Oo Dawny Anwer To Me.
You Believe Old Testament.
In Old Testament Saİd That:
Jacob Wrestled With God And Win Him.
Do You Believe This?
You Dont Know The Real Power Of God.
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
hanif said:
Of Course God Is The Creator Of All Things.but He Dont Begets.he Creates
So There Is Nothing To Equal To Him.heis Only One.
Creatures Of Him Is Not Childs Of Him.

Hanif, do you actually read the answers with which we have provided you in answer to the points you have raised.

To this (Me) Christian, Jesus Christ is the only begotten son of God.

Take that or leave it, it is the way I think. I am not trying to force you to see things my way, please treat me with the same reciprocal respect.
 

jeffrey

†ßig Dog†
hanif said:
Of Course God Is The Creator Of All Things.but He Dont Begets.he Creates
So There Is Nothing To Equal To Him.heis Only One.
Creatures Of Him Is Not Childs Of Him.
He is father time. He is mother nature. He is father of the universe. God is love, the father/mother of love. He is Christ, and also the father of Christ. He is the Holy Spirit, but also is the father to the Holy Spirit. Do not try to understand him, just respect his creations. And Michel, most excellent post!
 

hanif

Member
no god ıs only god.jesus and holy spırıt and muhammed ıs only salave of god.
everythıng ıs ın the hand of god.

15 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou? She, supposing him to be the gardener, saith unto him, Sir, if thou have borne him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away. 16 Jesus saith unto her, <B><SPAN style="COLOR: red; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master. 17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God. 18 Mary Magdalene came and told the disciples that she had seen the LORD, and that he had spoken these things unto her.
 

hanif

Member
michel you wrote
The Christian doctrine of the Trinity is not a regression, a compromise between monotheism and polytheism. It is a step further that only God himself could make the human mind take.
there cant be compromise between polytheism and monotheism.
GOD IS ONLY ONE NOT THREE AND ONE.
 

jeffrey

†ßig Dog†
hanif, you can quote as much scripture written by man as you wish. It means nothing. Show me one thing actually written by God himself. Logic is if you admit he created something, he is also the father to it. By being the father to something does not necessarily mean having to have sex with another being to create said child. You can be the father to an idea. God created everything, so God is the father to everything.
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
hanif said:
michel you wrote
The Christian doctrine of the Trinity is not a regression, a compromise between monotheism and polytheism. It is a step further that only God himself could make the human mind take.
there cant be compromise between polytheism and monotheism.
GOD IS ONLY ONE NOT THREE AND ONE.

Please read :- I say:-"God is three IN one"
You say I said" God is Three AND one"

Do you see the different words?

If I had realised that what you actually were after here was a Islam Vs Christianity contest, I would never have posted. I thought you had, in good faith, asked a simple question to which I gave you an answer.

You are a Muslim who follows the Qu'ran.
I am a Christian who follows the Bible.
Please can we keep it that way; I have no interest in becoming a follower of Islam, as much as I doubt that you have any wish to become Christian.

If you want things about Christianity expained to you, I am happy to do that; I am, however, NOT prepared to argue whether Islam is more correct than Christianity or otherwise.:mad:
 

jeffrey

†ßig Dog†
I can see a leaf. I can see the roots if I dig. I can see the trunk. They are all part of the same tree. All different, but all part of the same. I can feel the Spirit. I can feel Christ. I can feel God and see his works. All different, but yet the same. ;)
 

Halcyon

Lord of the Badgers
Buttons* said:
there is no God... only manifistations (we've made ourselves) of balance of the One.
:p

So, you're saying that The One (in all its infinite glory) could not contain the individual manifestation of say, its own divine Wisdom? Are you saying these things are not possible within The One without human invention?

Buttons* said:
Female and male are earthly concepts.
;) And from what did the Earth originate.
 

Buttons*

Glass half Panda'd
Halcyon said:
:p

So, you're saying that The One (in all its infinite glory) could not contain the individual manifestation of say, its own divine Wisdom? Are you saying these things are not possible within The One without human invention?


;) And from what did the Earth originate.
I dont have to explain myself to you :p
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
Buttons* said:
I dont have to explain myself to you :p

Of course you don't. That is as it should be.

Jeffrey said:
I can see a leaf. I can see the roots if I dig. I can see the trunk. They are all part of the same tree. All different, but all part of the same. I can feel the Spirit. I can feel Christ. I can feel God and see his works. All different, but yet the same. ;)

I know what you are saying, and I agree. But to bring it to a simple level, I go out everyday, and each leaf I see is like the first leaf I have ever seen; when I walk in the woods, I see every individual tree, and see therein a beautiful creature.

The nearer I come to feel Jesus within me, the more I adore the simple things in life. Those things we take so much for granted; and I thank God for them everyday.:162:
 

jeffrey

†ßig Dog†
Beautiful, Michel, absolutely beautiful. Wiping the tear from my eye. I totally agree.. Got to pass some out, but I'll be back for that one. :)
 

Popeyesays

Well-Known Member
hanif said:
Of Course God Is The Creator Of All Things.but He Dont Begets.he Creates
So There Is Nothing To Equal To Him.heis Only One.
Creatures Of Him Is Not Childs Of Him.

But you are missing that in Arabic "father" demands "paternity" - in English, it does not.

God created Adam and Jesus in essentially the same way - it was a Creation of Will. I doubt you will find very many Christians who believe that Jesus was put into Mary's womb by the medium of sperm. God merely said "BE" and it was.

So largely this whole argument between Christianity and Islam over "the Heavenly Father" and "Al-Walid" is based on the fact that neither side understands that the word "father" means one thing to one side and an entirely different thing to the other side.

As long as you remain ignorant of that both sides are screaming "po tay - TOW" and "po TAHT - TOW" at one another to no substantive effect whatsoever. It is a silly argument and both sides should stop allowing dissension to grow because of the variable semantics between languages.

Regards,
Scott
 

Popeyesays

Well-Known Member
I should have included the relevant English definition of "father" for my previous post:
5 a : one that originates or institutes <the father of modern science> b : [SIZE=-1]SOURCE[/SIZE] <the sun, the father of warmth and light -- Lena M. Whitney> c : [SIZE=-1]PROTOTYPE[/SIZE] from the Merriam Webster Dictionary.

I would wager there is no such definition for "father"
in Arabic: &#1571;&#1576;, &#1608;&#1575;&#1604;&#1583;, &#1575;ü&#1576;, &#1587;&#1604;&#1601;, &#1575;&#1617;&#1576;, &#1576;&#1575;&#1576;&#1575;, Perhaps The Truth, or Jedgement Day might give us a hand with the intent of the Arabic words.

Regards,
Scott
 

TashaN

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Popeyesays said:
&#1571;&#1576;, &#1608;&#1575;&#1604;&#1583;, &#1575;ü&#1576;, &#1587;&#1604;&#1601;, &#1575;&#1617;&#1576;, &#1576;&#1575;&#1576;&#1575;

I don't know what you meant excatly but if you mean that i point out the meaning of these words, then:

&#1571;&#1576; = father.
&#1576;&#1575;&#1576;&#1575; = it may mean also father or the priest who is in charge in the church.
&#1587;&#1604;&#1601; = this one i don't think it is equilavent to "father" but it means the pervious people whom we follow what they do "the companions of prophet Mohammed for instance".

If you want to ask more just tell me about it. ;)


Peace ... :)
 

Popeyesays

Well-Known Member
The Truth said:
I don't know what you meant excatly but if you mean that i point out the meaning of these words, then:

&#1571;&#1576; = father.
&#1576;&#1575;&#1576;&#1575; = it may mean also father or the priest who is in charge in the church.
&#1587;&#1604;&#1601; = this one i don't think it is equilavent to "father" but it means the pervious people whom we follow what they do "the companions of prophet Mohammed for instance".

If you want to ask more just tell me about it. ;)


Peace ... :)

In the U.S> we have a term "founding fathers" that is probably somewhat the same. They are also occasionally callled the "founding brothers" - Washington, Jefferson, Paine, Adams, Franklin, Monroe, Hamilton - political theorists from which comes the constitution.

I was wondering if there was a term for father in the meaning of this: "5 a : one that originates or institutes <the father of modern science> b : [SIZE=-1]SOURCE[/SIZE] <the sun, the father of warmth and light -- Lena M. Whitney> c : [SIZE=-1]PROTOTYPE[/SIZE] from the Merriam Webster Dictionary."

God as the Founder of Creation, or the Source of Creation.

Regards,
Scott
 
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