God Is Not Father

[hanif]

I do agree. But we cannot know God in His Essence from studying any combination of His names and qualities.

One fault I find in Islam is its insistence that the nature of God is limited to 99 names or qualities.

Regards,
Scott

ALLAH HAS INFINITIVE NAMES BUT WE KNOW 99 OF HIS NAMES.

 

[hanif]

O humanity. You are the poor in need of Allah, whereas Allah is the Rich Beyond Need, the Praiseworthy. (Surah Fatir, 15)
He is Allah—the Creator, the Maker, and the Giver of Form. To Him belong the Most Beautiful Names. Everything in the heavens and Earth glorifies Him. He is the Almighty, the All-Wise. (Surat al-Hashr, 24)

 

[Popeyesays]

ALLAH HAS INFINITIVE NAMES BUT WE KNOW 99 OF HIS NAMES.

And I know the 100th, and that there are more given to me beyond that.

Regards,
Scott

 

[Popeyesays]

"Here God is warning us about people who distort his names. That's why Allah's commanded us to call him by his chosen most beautiful names and to not follow our own desires like when people before Mohammed "peace be upon him" forgot the monotheism and turned to call using other names including fabricated and pagan names."

And the promise of Muhammad that there would 100 names of God (yet one name to be revealed) by He Whom God Chooses. I believe that is Baha`u'llah and the hundredth name is "Ya Baha`u'l Abha". Baha`u'llah gives many more names and attributes to God, and I accept His authority.

Islam WAS perfect. Muhammad WAS the Prophet of God's Revelation. But - to my belief - saying that God's Revelation is finished is equivalent to tying up the hands of God.

"O people of the Book! why do ye disbelieve in the signs of God, the while ye witness them? O people of the Book! why do ye clothe the truth with falsehood and hide the truth the while ye know? A sect of the people of the Book say, 'Believe in what was revealed to those who believed at the first appearance of the day, and disbelieve it at the end thereof,'- that (others) may perchance go back (from their faith)- 'do not believe save one who followeth your religion.'
Say, 'Verily, the (true) guidance is the guidance of God, that one should be given like what ye are given.' Or would they dispute with you before your Lord, say, 'Grace is in the hand of God, He gives it to whom he pleases, for God both comprehends and knows. He specially favours with his mercy whom he pleases, for God is Lord of mighty grace."
(The Qur'an (E.H. Palmer tr), Sura 3 - Imran's Family)

I know we differ on this issue, and God will know the intent of what we do or say even better than ourselves. His Grace will probably support us both in error or in truth.

Regards,
Scott

 

[TashaN]

And the promise of Muhammad that there would 100 names of God (yet one name to be revealed) by He Whom God Chooses.

Can you please show me where does Prophet Mohammed "peace be upon him" said so?

Islam WAS perfect. Muhammad WAS the Prophet of God's Revelation.

I think you meant to say "IS" instead of "WAS", otherwise you have to tell me why Islam is not perfect anymore.

But - to my belief - saying that God's Revelation is finished is equivalent to tying up the hands of God.

I respect what you believe in but we don't have to produce more prophets just to fit this concept if God himself already sent the last Apostle already, Mohammed "peace be upon him".

I know we differ on this issue, and God will know the intent of what we do or say even better than ourselves. His Grace will probably support us both in error or in truth.

Amen ...

 

[hanif]

ı thınk some hadiths are not the word of muhammed asm.we must look for koran.

 

[Buttons*]

funny, i think all are worthy of the mysteries of the One.

 

[alexander garcia]

Hi I take it you are a muslim? If so how can you use the title of the english (GOD) for Allah? Or use their word (lord)- (baal). Is not Allah a masterof his servents? also are you american?

 

[Anastasios]

I am always highly amused when Muslims choose to attack the Bible. On the one hand, they will go on at length about how they accept ALL the previous prophets of God, only to chip away at the words and meanings of said beings, at the drop of a hat.

Further to this, they do not really listen to any answers. Well, not in the conventional sense. Surely everyone must realize how many arguments brought by Muslims are almost the same, word for word. They certainly use the same logic and selective reasoning.

I quess the real point is, How do you expect them to understand the words of infidels? The knowledge of infidels is incomplete. The views of unbelievers are considered to be almost the babbling of small children in the least, if not the sad ramblings of one who is led by Shaytan. In theory, they are doing us a favor by pointing out the inaccuracies of our understanding.

Until the moment that Allah mercifully lifts the veil from the unbelievers eyes, and they accept Islam, that unbeliever is quite blind. Never forget, Allah knows best. We all know nothing. :slap:

I think you shouldn't be that hard, at least many Muslims know about Old and New testaments. And most of them reads it (as I did many times), It is ordered in Quran to believe in other prophets before or after Muhammad, pbuh, (Muhammad, pbuh, is the last law-giver prophet, and seal (hatem) of the prophets). Here in Oxford, amongst many non-muslim friends of mine, I was hardly able to find a person who really read Quran and tried to understand. He was church historian and a very knowledged Christian, as a scholar and a theologian. And he told me that if they (those who are against it) would read, they would certainly change their ideas. He also said that you cannot use any verse of Quran against any other verse of it, while in bible it is a speciality, with the reason of that many authors in bible create great confusions. (I learnt later that he finally rejected whole Bible because of this inconsistence).
So, what we are doing is not to attack bible, but to tell people the truths behind it. Noone has to believe it, but we are ordered to warn people that is all. Of course the choice is theirs. In any case, we will never hate them.
This should be accepted that people are not reading Holy Quran and understand Holy Prophet of Islam, but they are judging those values in a sad way, sometimes quite hurtful, without any true knowledge of Islam. It has been a kind of "copy-past" mind what most people have. It is quite sad!!! If I start to tell my experiences here, I am sure many people would be ashamed. People are taught and told about Islam quite different!!!
So please I ask for understanding the situation better.

 

[Popeyesays]

Can you please show me where does Prophet Mohammed "peace be upon him" said so?

It is hadith literature where we find the 99 names of God and the 19 Most Beutious Names of God. As posted above several scholars have culled the Qur'an and hadith for the "99 Names" and recently one of the Muslim members posted such a list.

"110. Say: "Call upon Allah, or call upon Rahman: by whatever name ye call upon Him, (it is well): for to Him belong the Most Beautiful Names. . . "
(The Qur'an (Yusuf Ali tr), Surah 17)

"One of the traditions of Islam
says that the "Greatest Name of God" is among these nineteen names.
The Asma'u'l-Husna or "Most Beauteous Names" of God are phrases found in
several places in the Qur'án. In hadith literature there is a statement
attributed to Muhammad, "Verily there are 99 names of God, and whoever
recites them shall enter Paradise." Some Islamic scholars have made a
list of these 99 names[87] from extensive research in hadith literature. These traditions also say that God has a hundredth name, the "Most Great Name", and whoever calls on God by that Name shall obtain all his desires. Many of the
mystics, the wise and the learned have tried and failed to unravel this
mystery. Some have even claimed to possess the Greatest Name but lacking
authority they failed to give the certainty required for such a claim."
(Islamic Miscellaneous, Cameron - Disconnected Letters of the Qur'an, p. 29)

I think you meant to say "IS" instead of "WAS", otherwise you have to tell me why Islam is not perfect anymore.

WAS and IS, actually. The Qur'an as Muhammad uttered it was and is perfect. The Gospel as Jesus uttered it was and is perfect. The Torah, the Scrolls, the Psalms the Avestas of the Parsees were and are perfect as uttered by the Apostles. Each Revelation is and was perfect because God decided how it was to be uttered, and each Apostle, though He might know and understand God's intent greater than He revealed it, in EACH case He revealed what God bade Him reveal and left unuttered what God intended He should leave unuttered.

To me this implies a continuity, and I have no reason to believe that the door of God's Revelation is now closed.

I respect what you believe in but we don't have to produce more prophets just to fit this concept if God himself already sent the last Apostle already, Mohammed "peace be upon him".

If God HAD sent the last Apostle this would be true, but I do not consider this to be the case. Muhammad declared that His revelation would need no more prophets - like Micah for Judaism and Peter for Christianity - but He was not intending to say that God was barred from adding to the ongoing purpose of Revelation.

Amen ...

Add one more 'Amen' for me. God created us all brethren, who among us is fit say He did not? I am sure you agree with that as well.

Regards,
Scott

 

[sojourner]

You know, a person can proof-text just about any scripture to prove a belief they hold. That's what most of the scriptural citations are in this thread. But, as we all know, proof-texting just is not solid scholarship.

There is nothing wrong with the faithful using "Father" as an image for God. It is an image of God that Jesus used, even going so far as to call God "Daddy" -- Abba. It is a powerful image for many of us, and it speaks to the truth of the relationship between God and humanity. Frankly, we who prefer to visualize God as Father don't have to justify, or explain, or theorize. "Father" is a perfectly solid theological term for God, it is Biblical, and it has little to do with Trinitarian doctrine. God can be Father, even if the Trinity were not true.

To some, God is YAHWEH. To some, God is Father. To some, God is Allah. To some, God is something else. Can God not be much larger than our various names for God?

 

[hanif]

god is mercifull as our father but not he is real father because noone is equal to him.

 

[cardero]

“The title of father comes from humankind. Anybody who conceives or is the creator of something is supposed to BE the father of a creation. When a child is born, he receives his father's title. The Father of Invention is probably a term YOU are familiar with. I think the term father is INCORRECT. I AM not offended by it. But in YOUR society, "father" implies a masculine presence. What makes people think I AM a masculine entity?”

Hello It’s Me: An Interview With GOD
Chapter: The One True GOD?
Pg: 323

Common Misconceptions About GOD
15. GOD is not our Father, our babysitter or Superman. GOD is not holy or divine.

Posters Note:
It may not be a good idea to think of GOD as a father figure. The image that is perceived of father is usually derived from one’s own upbringing and these images can be in direct contrast to the those attributes that GOD is trying to endorse.

 

[sojourner]

It may not be a good idea to think of GOD as a father figure. The image that is perceived of father is usually derived from one’s own upbringing and these images can be in direct contrast to the those attributes that GOD is trying to endorse.

I guess that's why Jesus referred to God as "Father..." Probably not a good Idea for followers of Jesus to do that...

 

[cardero]

I guess that's why Jesus referred to God as "Father..." Probably not a good Idea for followers of Jesus to do that...

Not at this stage of the game it wouldn't. Even if GOD asked everyone to refrain from this moniker, it would take another 2000 years for people to break the concept.


Presently, many of the followers of Jesus believe that GOD and Jesus are one in the same, so as far as following an individual who claims this, I would think is "not a good idea".

There are two ways to look at this. One way is that Jesus didn’t have any good father roles or another is that he had one of the most accurate comparisons to earthly and heavenly fathers than anyone else; for example, one father didn’t have anything to do with his birth and the other father didn’t do anything about his death.

 

[sojourner]

Not at this stage of the game it wouldn't. Even if GOD asked everyone to refrain from this moniker, it would take another 2000 years for people to break the concept.

Also many of the followers of Jesus believe that GOD and Jesus were one in the same, so as far as following an individual who claims this it would also apply as "not a good idea".

There are two ways to look at this. One way is that Jesus didn’t have any good father roles or another is that he had one of the most accurate comparisons to earthly and heavenly fathers than anyone else; for example, one father didn’t have anything to do with his birth and the other father didn’t do anything about his death.

What are you talking about?!?

 

[cardero]

What are you talking about?!?

I was replying to your post. Did I misunderstand something?

 

[sojourner]

Not at this stage of the game it wouldn't. Even if GOD asked everyone to refrain from this moniker, it would take another 2000 years for people to break the concept.


Presently, many of the followers of Jesus believe that GOD and Jesus are one in the same, so as far as following an individual who claims this, I would think is "not a good idea".

There are two ways to look at this. One way is that Jesus didn’t have any good father roles or another is that he had one of the most accurate comparisons to earthly and heavenly fathers than anyone else; for example, one father didn’t have anything to do with his birth and the other father didn’t do anything about his death.

Many of the followers of Jesus believe that there are three distinct persons in the Trinity. God the Father and God the Son are two distinct persons. When Jesus referred to God as his Father, he was speaking as a complete human being to other human beings about the Father, who is a person distinct from Jesus.

About your suggested "two ways of looking at this": Both heavenly Father and earthly father certainly had something to do with his birth: God begat Jesus, and Joseph went ahead and took Mary for his wife, even though social convention dictated otherwise! He was present for the birth, he reared Jesus, taught Jesus, and trained him as a carpenter. Sounds pretty involved to me! Joseph was probably dead by the time Jesus was crucified, so, of course Joseph wasn't involved there. God the Father certainly was there to do something about the death of Jesus. God took his spirit right early. Jesus died in just a few hours -- not days, which was the norm for death by crucifixion. God the Father showed mercy to Jesus in his crucifixion.

Jesus had excellent Father figures. He referred to God as Abba, which is a term of endearment.

 

[sojourner]

It may not be a good idea to think of GOD as a father figure. The image that is perceived of father is usually derived from one’s own upbringing and these images can be in direct contrast to the those attributes that GOD is trying to endorse.

These images can also be excellently in concert with the attributes of God!

That's why there is more than one model for God. Father is one. If that one doesn't work for you, then use another! Use Mother. Use Teacher. Use Aunty. Use Friend. Use whatever speaks to you the loving, gentle attributes of God.

 

[hanif]

Common Misconceptions About GOD
15. GOD is not our Father, our babysitter or Superman. GOD is not holy or divine.

OF COURSE GOD IS HOLY AND DIVINE.BUT HE IS NOT FATHER.BECAUSE NOONE CAN EQUAL TO HİM.BUT SON IS PART OF HIS FATHER.BUT GOD HAS NO PART.
THE BELIEF OF SON OF GOD IN CHRISTIANITY CAME FROM MITRAIZM AND OTHER ANTIC RELIGION.
IN REAL CHRISTIANITY JESUS IS ONLY PROPHET.