TheAll-Knowing
Member
You're good. Not agreeing with someone often, but still upholding the sportmanship. Good boi points to you. Or girl.
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God isn't real. Prove me wrong.
- Thread starter TheAll-Knowing
- Start date
You're good. Not agreeing with someone often, but still upholding the sportmanship. Good boi points to you. Or girl.
TheAll-Knowing
Member
Oh, also. Religion isn't wrong. Most of them, at least. Christianity for example, I think is a wonderful way for people to cope with. It also helps the poor, people in need - it's a great help and a shining light in this world of darkness, even though whatever thing it's based on is more than likely just to be misunderstood, stretched out and false.
I don't believe in any of it. But I acknowledge that religion has benefits to some. ...Even though there's corruption, and it can be easily abused.
I don't believe in any of it. But I acknowledge that religion has benefits to some. ...Even though there's corruption, and it can be easily abused.
I don't actually understand what you mean, but I feel confidend that the universe does not need my support in order to exist.
There is no evidence for any gods. Doesn't matter though.
What?
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
The only god I'm familiar with is god from the Bible, or the biblical god from a Christian view. Jews say they have different god than christians. Muslins same but dont think they say it's different from Jews.
Outside of that, what people describe doesn't sound like a deity or disembodied spirit. They say he interacts and loves people but when you observe how they interact with god and the source of their beliefs, it becomes clear that god is from the mind, culture, and history. Even though they can't see it, it's best to take up your own investigations and draw your own conclusions. If I depended on Christian definition of god, I'd end up every which a place. But when I do it myself, it makes more sense.
So, if someone says prove (the Christian god) is real and exists, I think that's actually silly. Believers can't describe god themselves, so how are they going to give proof outside their sacred text and cultural practices.
Since god can't be described, whatever they are saying is describing what god is like to that person. It's their definition not a universal one. So, it's easier to ask one person to prove god because you only have one experience to work from.
That, and if you generalize how you define god for all christians, that would make it difficult to answer your question.
One other thing, god is an experience. The criteria you may use to judge or their proof is real maybe inappropriate to the evidence they are giving you. If it were me, I'd address their source-how does the Bible prove god is true. Not claims "I exist and created the heavens and the earth" but the logic in how the Bible came to that solution.
Not many believers stick with it. Many christians stick to their source that to question it in a nice intellectual manner (so there isn't defense) usually gets then to stop conversations short.
TheAll-Knowing
Member
no!!11!11
my spaghetti god is better than urs!!11 1!! u do not believe in MY SPAGHETTI?
U WILL
BE FOREVER BE IN HELL 4 EVER FOUR EVER!!1
I'm so sorry. This was just so obnoxious.
No idea how you understood that.
leroy
Well-Known Member
The universe had a beginning.
This implies that the universe had a cause
With universe I mean all the physical/natural world…..including strings, parallel worlds, the Matrix and other stuff that may (or may not) exists.
If you accept these 3 points it would necessarily imply that the cause of the universe (ie the natural world) had a supernatural cause
This doesn’t lead you directly to God but it leads you a step closer to God.
allfoak
Alchemist
You are the only one who can settle that question.
QuestioningMind
Well-Known Member
You need to begin by defining what you mean by god. I can define god as the universe. I think there is sufficient evidence to conclude that the universe exists, thus by my definition, god exists as well.
karbaa
New Member
you are spoiled child, that is all. and where is that intelligent person ?
who will listen to you ? instead of recognized agent of Supreme Lord Krishna ? ( aka mum or say authority or say Srila Prabhupada who is current `1 )
for no intelligent person can listen to child, for it is our mum who has seen our papa before our birth and knows it that who has tilled her.
that is all. ( finished ) now you are broken and smashed ( but still you maintain your fallacy ) and there is no loss at all.
A Vestigial Mote
Well-Known Member
These types of posts always crack me up... with the little emojis meant to signify some outrageous/obvious "wrong" that's assumed to have been committed by the poster being replied to.You belive God is a being
So I take it that you feel it is obvious that "God" is "not a being," correct? This is something I would argue that you cannot know. What God is or isn't. All you can have is belief, and belief alone is something that anyone can easily challenge, and which you will never be able to adequately defend.
As soon as you mention "God," nothing is obvious. All bets are nothing more than that... bets. Problem being that, as the story so often goes, you only ever might get to see whether your bet was the winning one once you've died and can't do anything with the information anyway. Or you die and there is nothing to be told and no one to tell it or to tell it to.
QuestioningMind
Well-Known Member
Why does this unknown 'cause' have to be supernatural? Just because we don't yet know what it is doesn't mean it has to be supernatural. That's no different than our ignorant ancestors concluding that the cause of earthquakes had to be some supernatural force, simply because they had no concept of plate tectonics.
For your reference, gods need not be supernatural. I wrote a thread about that here which summarizes that point, if you're interested - God(s) =/= Supernatural
It doesn't tell me much for you to say "real is that which exists." What does exists mean? Do ideas exist? To abstractions exist? Or do you constrain "exists" to "has to be measured with a yardstick?" or some other empirical metric?
There is proof for the existence of several sorts of gods, depending on one's point of reference. Even if one constrains "proof" to mean "empirical evidence." Furthermore, I am very perplexed by the apparent sentiment that stories aren't a basis for religions. As far as I'm aware, all religions have mythos - or sacred stories. It's one of their cornerstones. You seem dismissive of that?
At any rate, your responses were largely what I expected. As a heads up, I might not engage much further than this because the constraints you seem to be placing on the discussion require such. My gods aren't supernatural, they're obviously real to even the most skeptical of materialists, and the sciences themselves study my gods. It's not a perspective to consider given the above, so I won't derail the intent of your thread beyond pointing out the limitations of the discussion.
According to the Bible God is love.
He who doesn't love doesn't know God, for God is love.
1 John 4:8
If you say, love is not real, how then I can love?
karbaa
New Member
and how `1 can love god ? unless `1 knows him ? his name, his address, how he is ? , his characteristics etc.
and if you actually love god than why did you pissed on his words ? for your gods son Christ who is supposed to be repeating the words of Supreme Lord Krishna.
for he is saying Thou shall not kill. but you are killing and maintaing organized slaughter houses. so you are pissing on him and his teaching but still fun is you are christian ?
Cobol
Code Jockey
Trying to justify the existence of a god with a nebulous, transcendental mindset doesn't accomplish any intellectual work. You can make anything seem to exist by blurring the lines of it's definition enough.
What I am pointing out is that some subjective/imagined things can be a more powerful influence on the human experience. A "God" is one of those.
What I am pointing out is that some subjective/imagined things can be a more powerful influence on the human experience. A "God" is one of those.
Kelly of the Phoenix
Well-Known Member
I think the most likely scenario is that a god was once just a tribal leader or cultural hero/inventor, or some nonhuman aspect of the environment. In such a case, They are or at least were real.
Yeah, but if they found fossils, it would make a lot of sense that they imagined these creatures that way.
Actually, I disagree that supernatural is a thing. We might tack that label on to things we don't know about, but I believe any god would by necessity be natural.
Many gods die. Many are born. Hardly any are eternal, just really, REALLY old. After all, we can't prove They are immortal until reality ends and They still exist, right?
The bible doesn't really insist the wives are over the age of 18, though.
I had an epiphany where I realized that even if a religion is false, if a deity or deities is/are real, like, independently existent from our thoughts, then it doesn't matter what the religion said.
Like, the President doesn't believe he's at risk of going to prison. It doesn't matter what he thinks, because laws and prisons are real.
Personally, I feel I have a relationship with God. It's not always a pleasant one, but it's usually better than most human relationships. I feel a mature relationship doesn't include butt-kissing. However, my relationship with God is not likely to be verified by science any time soon, so I concede that and move on with my day and do not wish to legislate my belief in God because I feel laws should be evidence-based only.
In the bible, God goes from Someone who can have dinner at your house to Someone who is only mentioned by human prophets. Ironically, the Word of God becomes more atheistic as time progresses. However, it is made abundantly clear that God doesn't wish to manage this world and then gets upset when called out on His laziness, especially after the scene where HE calls out the other gods for being lazy. Lasseiz-faire governing just doesn't work. You would think God would figure that out.
With pictures, no less.
Let's see Yahweh beat THAT.
But "god" is more of a species or job, right? Like, there's no objective reason a deity has to be pleasant. That's just our preference (except for those who like more destructive gods). I mean, my father exists, and he is a narcissistic sociopath. That I don't care for his existence doesn't make him non-existent.
Meh. I feel that if faith can be threatened by criticism, it's not worth calling faith.
While I agree that a negligent god may still exist, such a god might as well not bother, right?
And ancestral DNA companies are unfortunately now put in the middle of family drama because sometimes parents were less than honest about who all had access to the field.
As someone who feels that Krishna's stories are much better written than Jesus', still ... the question of "did it really happen that way" remains.
Now, I didn't read the Mahabharata except a prose version which may very well have skipped some parts, but IIRC, Krishna manipulated two families into hardcore levels of destruction so that the field was drenched in blood, right?