God may punish but eternity in hell?

[InvestigateTruth]

Are you saying you need prophets to teach you how to truly care about other people? Empathy, Sympathy, Compassion, etc, isn't something you have, it's something religion teaches you?

For everything there is an ultimate Source.
Just as the Sun is the Source of light for our planet, God is the Source of light of guidance for us.
Therefore God Manifest Himself, through the mirrors of His Own Self. The Manifestations of God, who are the Prophets are the Mirrors that reflect the Light of Guidance of God upon mankind. Just as the Sun appears everyday, so does the Manifestation of God appears at every age.

But as the night comes, these Spiritual teachings also fade out eventually. That's why, in the morning of the Day of Revelation, another Manifestation must appear to give the light of guidance again. and this process is from Eternity to Eternity!

 

[Smoke]

That's the problem with Hell; justice is when the punishment fits the crime, and I can't imagine what any human is capable of doing that equals to eternal torture in severity. I can understand souls spending a stint in hell for serious offenses, but not an eternity.

It's not just. Even if you're Tamerlane or Stalin or Hitler, sooner or later, you will have suffered more than all the suffering you caused.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

The americanchristiansociety (com) says:
Punishment for our sins if we do not seek forgiveness:
Some people say it is hell for eternity if one does not seek forgiveness for even the smallest offense. We don’t know what the punishment is but one can guess it is something like an eye for an eye. What a great way to teach a lesson to someone who is not sorry. After all, that is what God wants for us, so that we can grow and develop. God does not have us waste away in hell.
The idea of a permanent hell with no escape or no hope CONTRADICTS who God is as a creator. Sorry, but so does the idea of a permanent heaven where things never change and we accept the idea that some of us are in hell with no hope.
What do you think?

Please notice Revelation 20vs13,14 because all in the biblical hell are 'delivered up' [resurrected]. That would mean then hell becomes empty, vacant, void of people. Then, emptied-out hell dies a symbolic second death or destruction. Even Satan is destroyed according to Hebrews 2v14 B.

That is why Revelation 21vs4,5 can say that even our last enemy:
'death' will be no more. -1 Cor 15v26

 

[ButTheCatCameBack]

Not really, there are many people who distinguish between a physical attraction between opposite sex, and true love.

That has nothing to do with you creating a strawman. That's when you attempt say what someone's argument is then knock it down with some line of personal reasoning. You brought up "physical attraction between opposite sex." So that's your issue.

We can learn certain skills, by which we can have good social and interaction skills.

Has nothing to do with my post.

First consider a person who has learned how to act nicely, and interact properly in the society, but internally does not care about people. He just acts that way, because he knows, it works better with people.
Second consider another person who truly cares about others, not just for the purpose of his own success within society. But through his spiritual character and human feelings. This is the spiritual quality. This is what comes from the teachings of the prophets.

You see the difference?

Actually you're describing sociopathy. Also something that is part of the physical world as a result of brain chemistry.

Still no "spirituality" shown.

 

[Renji]

The real punishment in the concept of hell is not the "hellfire" or "torture", but one's separation from God till eternity.. And, He will not punish based on unjust reasons.

 

[Diederick]

See, this is how it goes.

God created human, and because He loves his creation, he sends us guidance.
Just like, if you plant some flowers, then you would take care of it, and water them.

In the same way, God rains upon us his bounty, by the clouds of heaven of knowledge. This knowledge, is the spiritual knowledge and he gives it to us through His Manifestations, which are the prophets.

:yes:

Then He warns us that if we don't follow the teachings then our soul will not live on.

How does this stand up in your plant analogy?

Just as the physical body needs food, so does the spirit. The food for spirit is given to us through the teachings of the prophets.
If we don't follow their guidance then our spirit would not grow and progress (Which is described as Fire Hell to warn us) Cause, life after death is the life of spirit.

Are you suggesting Hell does not exist and instead we'd just stop being because we screwed up building our spirit lives?

So, the choice is with us. God does not make us to go to Hell.

So now hell does exist again. I can understand why God wouldn't make us to go to hell, but he kind of does, doesn't he? I mean, of course Christians believe in free will, regardless of the authoritarian daddy in the sky, otherwise God would be even more of an evil person - but God knew more than half of His people wouldn't make it to heaven, didn't He?

God is omniscient and omnipotent, he knew what he was making and what its results would be. He knows many will go to hell because that is how they are hard-wired - some people won't worship him because there simply isn't enough evidence and scare-tactics don't work on everyone. We're not the pathetic Bronze Age people we were back then, we got smart on God, so to speak.

So let's start over: what's the purpose God has when sending people to hell for not living up to His standards, and how could he possibly justify eternal suffering?

The real punishment in the concept of hell is not the "hellfire" or "torture", but one's separation from God till eternity.. And, He will not punish based on unjust reasons.

Which is the viewpoint I like. But what are just reasons to send someone to hell?

 

[Renji]

Which is the viewpoint I like. But what are just reasons to send someone to hell?

There's many. And I think it will take me Eternity to post all of them

 

[St Giordano Bruno]

I personally think religions that have to win over converts by frightening people into them with a threat of hellfire and then boasting about the number of people they have converted is a form of cheating.

 

[JustAsking]

For everything there is an ultimate Source.
Just as the Sun is the Source of light for the moon and stars, God is the Source of light of guidance for us.
Therefore God Manifest Himself, through the mirrors of His Own Self. The Manifestations of God, who are the Prophets are the Mirrors that reflect the Light of Guidance of God upon mankind. Just as the Sun appears everyday, so does the Manifestation of God appears at every age.

But as the night comes, these Spiritual teachings also fade out eventually. That's why, in the morning of the Day of Revelation, another Manifestation must appear to give the light of guidance again. and this process is from Eternity to Eternity!

Interesting opinion.

 

[Midnight Pete]

It's not just. Even if you're Tamerlane or Stalin or Hitler, sooner or later, you will have suffered more than all the suffering you caused.

So you think it's unjust for these individuals to have be denied entrance to heaven?

 

[Faithfreedom]

So you think it's unjust for these individuals to have be denied entrance to heaven?

I think God would not resurrect them at all. He would just forget about them.
All the damage they have done would be made up to the sufferers.
Eg. Job was restored twice or more for all his losses in the end.
I think God would also make it up to Job's children who died.

 

[Midnight Pete]

I think God would not resurrect them at all. He would just forget about them.
All the damage they have done would be made up to the sufferers.
Eg. Job was restored twice or more for all his losses in the end.
I think God would also make it up to Job's children who died.

No punishment for the wicked? That's hardly fair.

 

[Faithfreedom]

No punishment for the wicked? That's hardly fair.

There is punishment for the wicked.
Somewheres in Isaiah around chapters 56 or there abouts, it quotes, "There is no rest for the wicked." This means that they will find no peace in this life.
Then there is also human justice which may get them.

The bible also states that the wages of sin is death.
So when we die, all our sins are fully paid for.

The truly wicked will have no hope of resurrection. They will not receive eternal life.
Isn't that punishment enough?

To torture some poor soul eternally in a fiery hell for non-eternal sins committed on earth is not justice nor love. To link this hell-thing to God is to dishonor him. It makes him out to be cruel.

 

[Midnight Pete]

There is punishment for the wicked.
Somewheres in Isaiah around chapters 56 or there abouts, it quotes, "There is no rest for the wicked." This means that they will find no peace in this life.
Then there is also human justice which may get them.

The bible also states that the wages of sin is death.
So when we die, all our sins are fully paid for.

The truly wicked will have no hope of resurrection. They will not receive eternal life.
Isn't that punishment enough?

To torture some poor soul eternally in a fiery hell for non-eternal sins committed on earth is not justice nor love. To link this hell-thing to God is to dishonor him. It makes him out to be cruel.

So why is that really good things happen to really bad people? How does human justice account for this?

 

[JustAsking]

So why is that really good things happen to really bad people? How does human justice account for this?

Can you give a couple examples?

 

[Faithfreedom]

So why is that really good things happen to really bad people? How does human justice account for this?

True, that does happen. But sometimes you can see God's justice or/and human justice befalls them. And sometimes we cannot see it and we think that they are getting away with it. But i think that their conscience will know and will bother them. Their bodies will secret bad hormones and they'll get hypertension, heart disease and such (imo).

they may have good things but are they happy? Most bad people are not happy. But a small number are. Still, "what does it benefit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his own soul."

 

[Diederick]

There's many. And I think it will take me Eternity to post all of them

Really? Isn't there some simple standard we could measure things to, like always being nice to others?

 

[InvestigateTruth]

How does this stand up in your plant analogy?

In the plant analogy, I can suggest the following:

In a rich soil, its plants spring forth abundantly. In the soil of good heart the holy seeds of guidance grow.
If the earth of the hearts to remain unchanged, how could the Seeds of knowledge of true understanding grow?

Yea, the rain of the Mercy showers, upon all from the cloud of Heaven of Knowledge, but the arid soil hath no share of the showers of mercy.

So, now, to answer your question that how the analogy of the plant stand-up, with regards to the “Warning of the Fire”, it is to warn us that if we don’t change the soil of our hearts, then the holy seeds does not grow!

Are you suggesting Hell does not exist and instead we'd just stop being because we screwed up building our spirit lives?

The next life, is not only, either Hell or Heaven. We are given the opportunity here in the world for spiritual progress, and everyone can progress to some limit. But how much, depends on us.

I suggest the following quote:

“The rewards of the other world are the perfections and the peace obtained in the spiritual worlds after leaving this world ... In the same way the punishments of the other world ... consist in being deprived of the special divine blessings and the absolute bounties, and falling into the lowest degrees of existence.”

"It is even possible that the condition of those who have died in sin and unbelief may become changed; that is to say, they may become the object of pardon through the bounty of God, not through His justice; for bounty is giving without desert, and justice is giving what is deserved.” Some Answered Questions - Abdul’baha

 

[ButTheCatCameBack]

Even if I didn't find the whole concepts of heaven and hell ridiculous. I'd reject Christianity's hell concept on not to mention the contradiction of omniscience to the ideas of salvation/damnation. But the fact that you're dealing with sending people to eternal torture for thoughtcrime. I'm sure some people like to play a giant cosmic game of 1984 but I am not one of those people.

 

[Faithfreedom]

I'd reject Christianity's hell concept on not to mention the contradiction of omniscience to the ideas of salvation/damnation. But the fact that you're dealing with sending people to eternal torture for thoughtcrime. I'm sure some people like to play a giant cosmic game of 1984 but I am not one of those people.

Does the bible really teach that the non-christian will be tortured forever in an eternal fiery hell? Most Christian think so. But does the bible scriptures really support that doctrine. The answer is No.