God rejects homosexuals...this is a fact

[gzusfrk]

Right. So we're back to my question: What have you done to oppose the legal right to remarry after divorce? What actions have you taken to encourage other Christians not to get divorced? How did you counsel your brother? Is he welcome in your church? Aren't you worried about his immortal soul?

ok. I would not oppose the legal right to remarry after divorce,long as its cheatin or death. I tryed to counsel him but the light and the dark dont get along very well. so I did not get far with him.really I am no more worried about his immortal soal than yours or the other guy. If he would come to our church we would welcome him.

 

[drivingbackwards]

No, I think you're just misguided. I don't believe in God or Satan. However, you claim the Bible as the basis of your position. I claim that the Bible declares your position to be wrong. In my eyes, your argument is self-contradictory.


I don't care about what you think God considers acceptable or not. I think your position can be seen to be hateful and inherently negative on its own merits separate from the Bible.


If Jesus liked the Pharisees, then the way he behaved to them seems very odd: BibleGateway.com - Passage*Lookup: Matthew 23


A distinction without difference, IMO. If you hate what they do and what they represent, then common sense says to me that you hate them.


If I were inclined to believe the Bible, I'd see more of Satan in your position than theirs.


You can affect your own interpretation of that word of God. It may be perfect (or at least, I'm not going to argue right now that it's not), but you're not. If you claim that your understanding of the word of God is perfect, then you practice self-idolatry by elevating yourself to the status of God. You're not doing that, are you?


Back at you - on both counts.

The problem I find discussing with you is that your point is a secular point of view, because you don't believe in God. This is like to say that you want to discuss algebra without believing in what the numbers and mathematical signs mean.

If you are reading your bible without believing in God, then your reading lacks of wisdom. I have read several opinions about the bible from people who are atheists and their opinions are laughable because they lack of wisdom in their negative critics.

Let me give you an example.They read the following verse, "And the name of the second river is Gihon: the same is it that compasses the whole land of Cush..." (Genesis 2:13)

The secular individual argued that this verse can't be right because the tribe of Cush didn't exist yet and is already a land carrying his name in this second chapter of Genesis.

That lack of wisdom is common in secular people who read the bible mostly to find negative aspects in it. By the way, what the bible says is similar to me saying that the ancient aborigines of this continent used to live in Florida, but Florida is a name given to this land very recently! The explanation is that the narrator is given the information based in his current perception, and the words of Genesis are given from the point of perception of Moses, who lived long after Cush.

So, look, from the biblical sources there is no doubt that homosexuality is not accepted at all by God and neither by Jesus. If you show me where are the biblical sources that say the contrary, then you are in a greater position than me about this topic, but unfortunately I can tell you that you won't find anything in your favor to support your point.

Now well, if you desire to discuss homosexuality from the secular point of view. I can also show you that mentally and physically the choice of homosexuality is negative for the integrity of the human body and for society in general.

Best wishes.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

The problem I find discussing with you is that your point is a secular point of view, because you don't believe in God. This is like to say that you want to discuss algebra without believing in what the numbers and mathematical signs mean.

I don't think you give me enough credit. I can entertain plenty of notions that I don't agree with.

If you are reading your bible without believing in God, then your reading lacks of wisdom. I have read several opinions about the bible from people who are atheists and their opinions are laughable because they lack of wisdom in their negative critics.

So the only people whose opinion on the Bible matters are those who already take it as given that it's correct? Convenient.

Let me give you an example.They read the following verse, "And the name of the second river is Gihon: the same is it that compasses the whole land of Cush..." (Genesis 2:13)

The secular individual argued that this verse can't be right because the tribe of Cush didn't exist yet and is already a land carrying his name in this second chapter of Genesis.

Yep, I guess you got me there, except for the fact that I never made such a claim. This makes its relevance to me somewhat suspect... unless you're trying to draw in a convenient straw man to go after rather than actually address the points I raised.

So, look, from the biblical sources there is no doubt that homosexuality is not accepted at all by God and neither by Jesus. If you show me where are the biblical sources that say the contrary, then you are in a greater position than me about this topic, but unfortunately I can tell you that you won't find anything in your favor to support your point.

I personally think you're conflating Paul with God, but there are plenty of things not accepted at all by God and Jesus in the Bible; I see some of them in the position you put forward.

Now well, if you desire to discuss homosexuality from the secular point of view. I can also show you that mentally and physically the choice of homosexuality is negative for the integrity of the human body and for society in general.

I'm not really interested in that, because I doubt you'll have anything new to add that hasn't already been addressed here in other threads. However, if you insist on pursuing this discussion, it's probably best to save it for a new thread rather than derailing this one.

 

[JMorris]

the only thing negative that comes from being homosexual is how people like you treat them. PROVE how in the real world, homosexuality negatively impacts society

 

[drivingbackwards]

So you do accept the purity codes in Leviticus as being still applicable to Christians today?

What about lesbians, driving? God doesn't seem to have a problem with lesbians for some reason.

And again, about all those divorced Christians, why aren't you out trying to restrict their rights?

The codes of Leviticus still in charge, and that today they are not fully enforced by the believers is because the governments (law of the land) prohibit them to apply laws of Leviticus, and such is a different thing.

You can read -as an example- that the prophet said that in the kingdom of the Messiah the animal sacrifices will start again. Right now, if the Messiah comes back without power, he should be arrested right after the "animal rights commission" starts a court case against him because he is slaughtering animals and burning them.

You can read the apostle Paul saying that women will also lose their natural attraction to men and will corrupt themselves loving woman to woman.

The bible, lets say Jesus himself said that a man can divorce his wife only in the case she has committed fornication. If a man -regardless of being Christian or not because he can be Jewish- wants to divorce his wife because she became fat and he doesn't like her anymore, such reason is not a valid background for divorce.

I think that you are misunderstanding this thread and my position about it, because I am not restricting any rights from anyone, and that this issue about rights for gays is a new "thing" made recently. As "gay" you can have "rights" from the government, but this thread is to let him know that from God's side the gay individual never ever will receive such an acceptance.

I think you are mixing two different situations, one thing is the human government laws, and a different scenario is the law of God.

At the end, the law of God will prevail forever, for this reason I stand with the law of God.

Best wishes.

 

[JMorris]

The codes of Leviticus still in charge, and that today they are not fully enforced by the believers is because the governments (law of the land) prohibit them to apply laws of Leviticus, and such is a different thing.

You can read -as an example- that the prophet said that in the kingdom of the Messiah the animal sacrifices will start again. Right now, if the Messiah comes back without power, he should be arrested right after the "animal rights commission" starts a court case against him because he is slaughtering animals and burning them.

You can read the apostle Paul saying that women will also lose their natural attraction to men and will corrupt themselves loving woman to woman.

The bible, lets say Jesus himself said that a man can divorce his wife only in the case she has committed fornication. If a man -regardless of being Christian or not because he can be Jewish- wants to divorce his wife because she became fat and he doesn't like her anymore, such reason is not a valid background for divorce.

I think that you are misunderstanding this thread and my position about it, because I am not restricting any rights from anyone, and that this issue about rights for gays is a new "thing" made recently. As "gay" you can have "rights" from the government, but this thread is to let him know that from God's side the gay individual never ever will receive such an acceptance.

I think you are mixing two different situations, one thing is the human government laws, and a different scenario is the law of God.

At the end, the law of God will prevail forever, for this reason I stand with the law of God.

Best wishes.

so your saying, that if it werent for the government, that christians like you would be out killing gays in the street? and that jesus wants us to torture animals? and that Paul fantisised about lesbians?

 

[painted wolf]

So shrimp cocktail really is a sin?
And no more poly-cotton pants for me? Egads!

wa:do

 

[drivingbackwards]

I don't think you give me enough credit. I can entertain plenty of notions that I don't agree with.


So the only people whose opinion on the Bible matters are those who already take it as given that it's correct? Convenient.


Yep, I guess you got me there, except for the fact that I never made such a claim. This makes its relevance to me somewhat suspect... unless you're trying to draw in a convenient straw man to go after rather than actually address the points I raised.


I personally think you're conflating Paul with God, but there are plenty of things not accepted at all by God and Jesus in the Bible; I see some of them in the position you put forward.


I'm not really interested in that, because I doubt you'll have anything new to add that hasn't already been addressed here in other threads. However, if you insist on pursuing this discussion, it's probably best to save it for a new thread rather than derailing this one.

Well, in that case, tell me what your point is because I have read your negative critics against my position but I have not read a single background supporting your position from a biblical source. This is to say, if you are going to disagree with my position which is based in what the bible stands for, then you must show your position also based in what the bible says.

If you are pretending to criticize my position with lose ideas of yours, I think that your points will be considered invalid. how can you attempt to disagree about an issue when you ignore what the issue is about?

By the way, the thread here is about what God stands for about homosexuality, and this can be known by reading the bible's contents.

My regards.

 

[Autodidact]

ok. I would not oppose the legal right to remarry after divorce,long as its cheatin or death. I tryed to counsel him but the light and the dark dont get along very well. so I did not get far with him.really I am no more worried about his immortal soal than yours or the other guy. If he would come to our church we would welcome him.

So I gather you support same-sex marriage then?

Would you welcome a Gay parishioner in the same way--without any request they abandon their "sin" and repent? IOW, is your church as hypocritical as you are?

 

[Autodidact]

Now well, if you desire to discuss homosexuality from the secular point of view. I can also show you that mentally and physically the choice of homosexuality is negative for the integrity of the human body and for society in general.

Best wishes.

Please do. I'm particularly interested in learning how lesbians are harming their bodies and society in general. Thanks.

 

[drivingbackwards]

so your saying, that if it werent for the government, that christians like you would be out killing gays in the street? and that jesus wants us to torture animals? and that Paul fantisised about lesbians?

And who told you that in ancient Israel gays were killed in the streets? From where do you have such a laughable idea? You must know that cases like adultery or homosexuality were sent to judges, and that witness must have to testify, and later the punishment was sentenced.

Animal sacrifices is foretold for the Messianic era, if you live in that new era, you might have the right to disagree against the Messiah, however, I guess that such action won't be wise from your part.

What do you want at last? Look, you have a government supporting the perversion of the citizens like letting them to become homosexuals, lesbians, etc plus having "rights". So, this thread is against such ruling of the government but is not prohibiting anything to gays. I can disagree with what the government stands for, such is also my "right", and I can express my disagreement with words and my vote.

This thread, however, is to let known that regardless of what the human government stands for, that God won't accept homosexuals at all in the new kingdom. This thread is showing the religious point of view found in the bible about homosexuality.

My regards.

 

[The Voice of Reason]

... it's probably best to save it for a new thread rather than derailing this one.

Yea - cause God only knows that it would be a shame to sidetrack such a well reasoned debate as this one.

 

[JMorris]

Please do. I'm particularly interested in learning how lesbians are harming their bodies and society in general. Thanks.

well, if you believe in a male dominated society, as im sure drivingbackwards probably does., then it would hurt that kind of society. women are supposed to submit to men, and if your lesbian, your not exactly submiting to a man's "will" are you?:areyoucra

 

[The Voice of Reason]

... This thread is showing the religious point of view found in the bible about homosexuality.

Well, not exactly.

This thread is really about you showing everyone on this board that you believe that you speak for God, and that you are an intolerant, religiously based bigot.

That's all this thread is about, as far as you are concerned.

 

[Autodidact]

The codes of Leviticus still in charge, and that today they are not fully enforced by the believers is because the governments (law of the land) prohibit them to apply laws of Leviticus, and such is a different thing.

You can read -as an example- that the prophet said that in the kingdom of the Messiah the animal sacrifices will start again. Right now, if the Messiah comes back without power, he should be arrested right after the "animal rights commission" starts a court case against him because he is slaughtering animals and burning them.

You can read the apostle Paul saying that women will also lose their natural attraction to men and will corrupt themselves loving woman to woman.

The bible, lets say Jesus himself said that a man can divorce his wife only in the case she has committed fornication. If a man -regardless of being Christian or not because he can be Jewish- wants to divorce his wife because she became fat and he doesn't like her anymore, such reason is not a valid background for divorce.

I think that you are misunderstanding this thread and my position about it, because I am not restricting any rights from anyone, and that this issue about rights for gays is a new "thing" made recently. As "gay" you can have "rights" from the government, but this thread is to let him know that from God's side the gay individual never ever will receive such an acceptance.

I think you are mixing two different situations, one thing is the human government laws, and a different scenario is the law of God.

At the end, the law of God will prevail forever, for this reason I stand with the law of God.

Best wishes.

O.K. just want to be sure I understand your rather unusual theological position. Your position is that all of the purity codes in Leviticus are still in effect for modern-day Christians, and all of them commit abominations on a daily basis, and are condemned to Hell for eating the wrong food and wearing the wrong clothes? Is that right?

And by the same token, no problem with lesbianism at all? Is that right?

Also polygamy--Biblical?

And slavery?

 

[Autodidact]

And who told you that in ancient Israel gays were killed in the streets? From where do you have such a laughable idea? You must know that cases like adultery or homosexuality were sent to judges, and that witness must have to testify, and later the punishment was sentenced.

Animal sacrifices is foretold for the Messianic era, if you live in that new era, you might have the right to disagree against the Messiah, however, I guess that such action won't be wise from your part.

What do you want at last? Look, you have a government supporting the perversion of the citizens like letting them to become homosexuals, lesbians, etc plus having "rights". So, this thread is against such ruling of the government but is not prohibiting anything to gays. I can disagree with what the government stands for, such is also my "right", and I can express my disagreement with words and my vote.

This thread, however, is to let known that regardless of what the human government stands for, that God won't accept homosexuals at all in the new kingdom. This thread is showing the religious point of view found in the bible about homosexuality.

My regards.

Well if I understand you right, you would also oppose rights for seafood-eaters, is that right?

 

[gzusfrk]

So I gather you support same-sex marriage then?

Would you welcome a Gay parishioner in the same way--without any request they abandon their "sin" and repent? IOW, is your church as hypocritical as you are?

no I do not support same sex marriage. 1 corinthians 6:9... you dont really know how I live my life, how can you say I am a hypocrite. but you are correct, I can not live like the bible tells me to.I can only try.

 

[Autodidact]

well, if you believe in a male dominated society, as im sure drivingbackwards probably does., then it would hurt that kind of society. women are supposed to submit to men, and if your lesbian, your not exactly submiting to a man's "will" are you?:areyoucra

Let's wait and let driving speak for himself.

 

[Autodidact]

no I do not support same sex marriage. 1 corinthians 6:9... you dont really know how I live my life, how can you say I am a hypocrite. but you are correct, I can not live like the bible tells me to.I can only try.

You've demonstrated in this thread that you're a hypocrite. You support laws permitting second marriage, which your religion prohibits, but oppose laws permitting same-sex marriage, which your religion does not prohibit. The word for that is hypocrisy. Maybe you should try a little harder.

 

[JMorris]

Let's wait and let driving speak for himself.

it was the only "affect" i could see homosexuality having on a percieved society. ok, let him speak