God: Trinity or Unity?

[Kenny]

You don’t seem to be too sure what you are saying - you’re just repeating a verse without any real sense of what it means.

Anyway, I was editing the post as you posted (I’m using an iPhone and the site keeps refreshing making it difficult to add text as I research!)

Please see the additional stuff in that post.

I don't know why we need to make it more complicated that exactly what it is saying. If it says that the Word can separate soul from spirit... then it does. If it says that may God sanctify your whole person (spirit, soul and body) - then it it your whole person. I think the problem lies in that now you have to force the square peg into the round hole to fit your views.

 

[Soapy]

I don't know why we need to make it more complicated that exactly what it is saying. If it says that the Word can separate soul from spirit... then it does. If it says that may God sanctify your whole person (spirit, soul and body) - then it it your whole person. I think the problem lies in that now you have to force the square peg into the round hole to fit your views.

Explain it to me…. Please.

What happens if the Soul is separated from the Spirit?

The WHOLE PERSON is Spirit [of the person] and Body [of the person]. ‘Soul’ is spirit and body - the whole person.

You used the word, ‘Person’ in your reply. How is ‘Person’ different from ‘Soul’?

It’s just from different languages - Scriptures never used the word ‘Person’ because it’s from a different era… an era where you refer to a someone as a ‘Soul’.

‘Person’ comes from Latin in the 1100’s. Before that the word, ‘Soul’ was used to refer to an individual human being or, in fact, any LIVING BEING… ‘Spirit in flesh’.

 

[Kenny]

Explain it to me…. Please.

What happens if the Soul is separated from the Spirit?

Ok... according to John 3 - what part of the tr-part human is born again?

 

[Soapy]

Ok... according to John 3 - what part of the tr-part human is born again?

Please don’t slip the question I asked you.

I will answer your question but you must also answer mine, please. It’s vital to the understanding if you can answer. If you cannot answer then it shows there is something wrong with his you are thinking of the subject.

First off, there is no tri-part human. Then, the body is irrelevant in terms of the scriptural ‘rebirth’. It is the Spirit that must be reborn. Reborn is like Renewed. Renewed by the spirit of God.

When a human is born he inherits the spirit from his Father… and since all men are inherently sinful since the gal of Adam, our spirit is also of a sinful nature. Jesus says we must be reborn (renewed) by the spirit of God / a HOLY SPIRIT.

(P.s. I edited my previous post after you had posted… didn’t know you were going to respond so quickly!)

 

[Kenny]

Please don’t slip the question I asked you.

I will answer your question but you must also answer mine, please. It’s vital to the understanding if you can answer. If you cannot answer then it shows there is something wrong with his you are thinking of the subject.

First off, there is no tri-part human. Then, the body is irrelevant in terms of the scriptural ‘rebirth’. It is the Spirit that must be reborn. Reborn is like Renewed. Renewed by the spirit of God.

When a human is born he inherits the spirit from his Father… and since all men are inherently sinful since the gal of Adam, our spirit is also of a sinful nature. Jesus says we must be reborn (renewed) by the spirit of God / a HOLY SPIRIT.

(P.s. I edited my previous post after you had posted… didn’t know you were going to respond so quickly!)

I'm trying to answer it in a way that it is understandable - but I won't let you wiggle your way out of it or try to obfuscate it with trivialities.

I have to first deal with the spirit because we are talking about 1 Thess 5 and Hebrews 4. You said, "explain it" and I am trying to do that.

So... is the "sprit" one part? What part of the complete person is saved in John 4?

Because you said:

is Spirit [of the person] and Body [of the person]. ‘Soul’ is spirit and body - the whole person.

Is the soul save? or the spirit? Because if the soul is born-again, the body wouldn't die, it would be saved.

 

[Soapy]

I'm trying to answer it in a way that it is understandable - but I won't let you wiggle your way out of it or try to obfuscate it with trivialities.

I have to first deal with the spirit because we are talking about 1 Thess 5 and Hebrews 4. You said, "explain it" and I am trying to do that.

So... is the "sprit" one part? What part of the complete person is saved in John 4?

Because you said:



Is the soul save? or the spirit? Because if the soul is born-again, the body wouldn't die, it would be saved.

You say you want to explain but once again all you are doing is asking me more questions.

This shows you don’t have an answer. I’m not surprised that you should be like this since I already saw that you did not have an answer at all.

But, again, to answer those question of yours to show I’m not hiding:

The Spirit is one part. It is the animating ‘breath’ of a person, the life force that dictates the actions of the second part, the Body.

The body of Adam was created but was lifeless.
God breathed the breath of life (The spirit, the animating force) into that body and Adam, the man, became a Living Person.

But what verse are you speaking of in John 4 as a diversion from the debate you have failed to make angels valid point about?

The complete body?? God can make a body out of dust… the body is mere dust of the earth .., God gave Jesus renewed body akin to that which he had before he died. However it was now GLORIFIED - with the holes of the nails and the piercing of the spear in the side… the same body but made to be spiritual.

Anyone / everyone who dies and is resurrected, even though their body before death may have been mutilated, blown up, burnt to a cinder. God can recreate that body exactly and mend all issues there may have been present before as we have seen from the miracles of Lepers, the lame, the blind, the sick.

 

[Kenny]

This shows you don’t have an answer. I’m not surprised that you should be like this since I already saw that you did not have an answer at all.

Argumentative and irrelevant.

But, again, to answer those question of yours to show I’m not hiding:

The Spirit is one part. It is the animating ‘breath’ of a person, the life force that dictates the actions of the second part, the Body.

So we, at least, agree that there are two parts, the spirit and the body.

Is it the spirit that is born-again in John 3?

 

[Soapy]

Argumentative and irrelevant.

So we, at least, agree that there are two parts, the spirit and the body.

Is it the spirit that is born-again in John 3?

Hahaha… we both agree!!! You mean YOU now agree!!!

It is the SPIRIT that is reborn… did I not say that already. Did I not say that the body counts for nothing. The body is just a vessel for the actioning spirit to dwell in and control.

When you ask about the body of those who are reborn you err in thinking that such a body cannot die. The saints supposedly were renewed by the spirit of God, but they still died in body or were killed in body.

It is when they are RAISED UP AGAIN that their bodies will be immortal, glorified like Jesus’ and because they are raised up to glory, raised up immortal, they will never die again… REMEMBER that ‘DYING’ is not the end of a person, a Soul… the end of a Soul is if the Soul (the Spirit, specifically) IS DESTROYED!!! If the Spirit is destroyed it’s natural that there will never be anything to sustain the body and direct it into survival and it will decay to dust anyway.

 

[Kenny]

When you ask about the body of those who are reborn you err in thinking that such a body cannot die. The saints supposedly were renewed by the spirit of God, but they still died in body or were killed in body.

It is when they are RAISED UP AGAIN that their bodies will be immortal, glorified like Jesus’ and because they are raised up to glory, raised up immortal, they will never die again… REMEMBER that ‘DYING’ is not the end of a person, a Soul… the end of a Soul is if the Soul (the Spirit, specifically) IS DESTROYED!!! If the Spirit is destroyed it’s natural that there will never be anything to sustain the body and direct it into survival and it will decay to dust anyway.

Like I said, I don't want to go to items not on the list and confuscate what we are talking about.

It is the SPIRIT that is reborn… did I not say that already. Did I not say that the body counts for nothing. The body is just a vessel for the actioning spirit to dwell in and control.

We can agree on the above.

1 Thessalonians 5:23 NASB 23 Now (may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be kept complete, (D)without blame at (E)the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Notice it doesn't say "soul, which is you spirit and body" - notice that it is spirit and soul and body. Three distinct parts.

Notice Heb 4 in the AMPC or any other version: 12 For the Word that God speaks is alive and full of power [making it active, operative, energizing, and effective]; it is sharper than any two-edged sword, penetrating to the dividing line of the breath of life (soul) and [the immortal] spirit, and of joints and marrow [of the deepest parts of our nature], exposing and sifting and analyzing and judging the very thoughts and purposes of the heart.

There is a difference between the breath of life AND the immortal spirit.

So definitely three distinct parts... How do you explain it?

And if the spirit is born-again, does the soul still need to be saved?

 

[osgart]

God is a mystery if such exists. Virtues are God's ideals and God's one truth which would be a unity. I think it hubris to claim to know God beyond that, or if there are other Gods, or none at all.

If there is God, nature itself doesn't reflect much of anything of God. So my God probably doesn't exist, but there is one unified truth that exists and makes all the difference in life.

 

[Soapy]

Like I said, I don't want to go to items not on the list and confuscate what we are talking about.


We can agree on the above.

1 Thessalonians 5:23 NASB 23 Now (may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be kept complete, (D)without blame at (E)the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Notice it doesn't say "soul, which is you spirit and body" - notice that it is spirit and soul and body. Three distinct parts.

Notice Heb 4 in the AMPC or any other version: 12 For the Word that God speaks is alive and full of power [making it active, operative, energizing, and effective]; it is sharper than any two-edged sword, penetrating to the dividing line of the breath of life (soul) and [the immortal] spirit, and of joints and marrow [of the deepest parts of our nature], exposing and sifting and analyzing and judging the very thoughts and purposes of the heart.

There is a difference between the breath of life AND the immortal spirit.

So definitely three distinct parts... How do you explain it?

And if the spirit is born-again, does the soul still need to be saved?

I can see that you are struggling with what scriptures says and what you are being taught by the trinitarian church. Yes, it doesn’t make sense to you, does it???

A Person is Flesh and Blood body with an animating Spirit within it. The Spirit is the decision maker, the ‘thinker’, the ‘motivator’. By itself the body can do nothing? It requires an Spirit to make it alive.

I’ve told you what I believe. You quote verses with no explanation. So here is something for you to answer:

Please illustrate YOUR THREE PART PERSON. What is the purpose of each part:

1. Spirit
2. Soul
3. Body

according to your belief.

————————————

Ezekiel 18:4 & 20 says, variously by bibles:

• ‘The Soul that sins shall die…’
• ‘The Person that sins shall die…’
• ‘The One who sins shall die…’

These bible translators don’t seem to have any problem understanding ‘Soul’ as ‘Person’!

From ‘Bibleprojects.com’:

• “In English, a soul usually refers to the non-material essence of a human that survives after death, but that concept would be entirely foreign to the authors of the Old Testament. Biblically, people don't have a soul—they are a soul. They are a "nephesh," a living, breathing, physical being.

 

[Soapy]

And if the spirit is born-again, does the soul still need to be saved?

Sounds like you are worrying… Have you got something to hide??

But, again……….. SOUL is the Person. So are you asking me if a born-again PERSON still needs to be saved?

No one is ‘SAVED’ until the resurrection and the judgement at the mercy seat of Jesus Christ.

There is always the possibility that even a born-again apostle could sin and fall away from the ‘Sonship’ of God. Born-again doesn’t mean ‘Cannot die’ or ‘Cannot go to destruction’ if such a soul should be led away to sin yet again!!:

• “If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left,” (Heb 10:26)

 

[Kenny]

I can see that you are struggling with what scriptures says and what you are being taught by the trinitarian church. Yes, it doesn’t make sense to you, does it???

A Person is Flesh and Blood body with an animating Spirit within it. The Spirit is the decision maker, the ‘thinker’, the ‘motivator’. By itself the body can do nothing? It requires an Spirit to make it alive.

I’ve told you what I believe. You quote verses with no explanation. So here is something for you to answer:

Please illustrate YOUR THREE PART PERSON. What is the purpose of each part:

1. Spirit
2. Soul
3. Body

according to your belief.

————————————

Ezekiel 18:4 & 20 says, variously by bibles:

• ‘The Soul that sins shall die…’
• ‘The Person that sins shall die…’
• ‘The One who sins shall die…’

These bible translators don’t seem to have any problem understanding ‘Soul’ as ‘Person’!

From ‘Bibleprojects.com’:

• “In English, a soul usually refers to the non-material essence of a human that survives after death, but that concept would be entirely foreign to the authors of the Old Testament. Biblically, people don't have a soul—they are a soul. They are a "nephesh," a living, breathing, physical being.

I'm not sure who is struggling here...

None of the above explains Hebrews or Thessalonians.

And, he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit. ! Cor 6:17 - Your spirit is saved unless you are in the position of saying that Jesus is joined to a sinful spirit... what do you think born-again means? Born of the Spirit?

Sounds like you are worrying… Have you got something to hide??

This says, "I really don't have an answer so let me attack the poster" Your usual response to people's points.

 

[Aupmanyav]

There is only one creator God, It ..

Your punctuation is wrong. A sentence should not end with a comma.
It is also against the rules of the forum. You should have written "I believe there is only one FSM ..".
Other people may have different beliefs.
I have got many warnings for saying 'There is no God."

Your spirit is saved unless you ..

Your spirit is saved if it is kept in a cool place.

 

[Soapy]

I'm not sure who is struggling here...

None of the above explains Hebrews or Thessalonians.

And, he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit. ! Cor 6:17 - Your spirit is saved unless you are in the position of saying that Jesus is joined to a sinful spirit... what do you think born-again means? Born of the Spirit?



This says, "I really don't have an answer so let me attack the poster" Your usual response to people's points.

Kenny, you aren’t answering the question I asked you!

I need to know what ‘Soul’, ‘Spirit’, and ‘Body’, mean to you so I can get sn understanding of what you are thinking.

I outlined many times to you what I say I think but it appears to clash with your thinking so we need to DEFINE what we mean.

So, please, show me what you mean by:

1. Soul
2. Spirit
3. Body

What are their definitions: functions and features and relationship to each other.

 

[Kenny]

Kenny, you aren’t answering the question I asked you!

I need to know what ‘Soul’, ‘Spirit’, and ‘Body’, mean to you so I can get sn understanding of what you are thinking.

I outlined many times to you what I say I think but it appears to clash with your thinking so we need to DEFINE what we mean.

So, please, show me what you mean by:

1. Soul
2. Spirit
3. Body

What are their definitions: functions and features and relationship to each other.

Heb 4:12 For the Word that God speaks is alive and full of power [making it active, operative, energizing, and effective]; it is sharper than any two-edged sword, penetrating to the dividing line of the breath of life (soul) and [the immortal] spirit, and of joints and marrow [of the deepest parts of our nature], exposing and sifting and analyzing and judging the very thoughts and purposes of the heart.

1 The 5:23 And may the God of peace Himself sanctify you through and through [separate you from profane things, make you pure and wholly consecrated to God]; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved sound andcomplete [and found] blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ (the Messiah).

You spirit - (immortal because God is a Spirit - born-again (John 3) and united with The Spirit of God (1 Cor 6:7) - this is what God's Holy Spirit does

Your body - created from the dirt - cursed in Gen 3 - will have to die - your body is saved when you put on the incorruptible body in the resurrection of those who have died and those who are living.

Your soul (breath of life) - includes your mind, will and emotions (we get the word Psychology from it - the study of the soul) - saved by the renewing of the mind (Rom. 12) through the engrafted word of God that is able to save your soul (James 1:21) - this is what we do while on this earth.

 

[Soapy]

Heb 4:12 For the Word that God speaks is alive and full of power [making it active, operative, energizing, and effective]; it is sharper than any two-edged sword, penetrating to the dividing line of the breath of life (soul) and [the immortal] spirit, and of joints and marrow [of the deepest parts of our nature], exposing and sifting and analyzing and judging the very thoughts and purposes of the heart.

1 The 5:23 And may the God of peace Himself sanctify you through and through [separate you from profane things, make you pure and wholly consecrated to God]; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved sound andcomplete [and found] blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ (the Messiah).

You spirit - (immortal because God is a Spirit - born-again (John 3) and united with The Spirit of God (1 Cor 6:7) - this is what God's Holy Spirit does

Your body - created from the dirt - cursed in Gen 3 - will have to die - your body is saved when you put on the incorruptible body in the resurrection of those who have died and those who are living.

Your soul (breath of life) - includes your mind, will and emotions (we get the word Psychology from it - the study of the soul) - saved by the renewing of the mind (Rom. 12) through the engrafted word of God that is able to save your soul (James 1:21) - this is what we do while on this earth.

Kenny, you have no idea what you are saying. Your response to the questions I asked you show you do not understand what you claim you understand… In fact, you don’t understand even what you wrote as your evidence of understanding.

You present ‘Spirit’ and ‘Soul’ as different meanings yet in fact you defined BOTH as the same thing.

The evidence presented to you is that a SOUL is the descriptive title of ‘Spirit and Body’ in humanity…. a PERSON.

There is nothing more to it than that.

The reason you are struggling to define the titles I asked you about is because you are trying to defend what trinitarian ideology has taught you to say… and they have not defined it to you - so how can you define it for yourself?

The ancients did not use the word ‘Person’. They referred to the visible (Body) and living (Spirit) entity together as ‘the Soul’. Hence they might say:

• “My Soul yearns for …” - “I yearn for …”
• “How many Souls have you sent down to the grave?” - How many People have you killed?”
• “Man can KILL the body but not the Soul…?” - “Man cannot DESTROY a Person…?”

This latter example shows best: A death of a man (by killing, old age or accident…) simply results in the SPIRIT of that man being separated out of the body of that man.

The Spirit goes to rest, inert, dormant, ‘sleeping’, senseless (has no way to detect an environment!) with God (who gave the Spirit in that man) and now the body has no way to sustain itself so it decays to dust!

The SOUL, the PERSON, is not FORGOTTEN, nor NONEXISTENT (which is what TRINITARIANS always say AGAINST truth speakers!!) since the SPIRIT is NOT DESTROYED.

I do not recall ever reading a trinitarian claim in which they distinguish between ‘DEATH’ (which is a HUMAN insight of the separation of Spirit from body), and DESTRUCTION, which is a SPIRITUAL DEATH.

The last example shows that even if a man kills another man, it is only the body that is going to decay to nothing. The spirit is still EXISTENT resting with God. It is non-active, non-sensing, non-communicating. Only when it is put back into a body does it, together with that body, activate the body, sense the earthly environment, communicate with others in the world.

But, if God, and only God, destroys the SPIRIT (it is from him and only he can destroy it) the WHOLE SOUL (the whole Person) is NONEXISTENT… there will be no remembrance of that SOUL, that Person!

SOUL is the biblical word for (Since the 1100’s era) PERSON. You can, in EVERY PLACE in the Bible where you read, ‘Soul’, replace it with ‘PERSON’ (and its derivatives: ‘Me, ‘I’, ‘Mine’, ‘Myself’ - Spirit and Body!)

But you are struggling to no positive degree to answer me when I ask you for example and explanation. The reason is simple: You cannot (It cannot…) be explained that ‘Soul’ is a THIRD PART OF A ….(person!!?)

 

[Kenny]

Kenny, you have no idea what you are saying. Your response to the questions I asked you show you do not understand what you claim you understand… In fact, you don’t understand even what you wrote as your evidence of understanding.

You present ‘Spirit’ and ‘Soul’ as different meanings yet in fact you defined BOTH as the same thing.

The evidence presented to you is that a SOUL is the descriptive title of ‘Spirit and Body’ in humanity…. a PERSON.

There is nothing more to it than that.

The problem here is multifold:

1. You always resort to demeaning other posters (I'm not the first to point it out) without ever answering the item at hand
2. Notice how you never address 1 Thess 5 and Hebrews 4 - you just bypass them
3. Just because you make a statement doesn't mean it is true.
4. You say spirit and soul are the same thing and yet they are two different words that mean something different.

The reason you are struggling to define the titles I asked you about is because you are trying to defend what trinitarian ideology has taught you to say… and they have not defined it to you - so how can you define it for yourself?

I haven't struggled a bit... I defined it quite well.

The ancients did not use the word ‘Person’. They referred to the visible (Body) and living (Spirit) entity together as ‘the Soul’. Hence they might say:

• “My Soul yearns for …” - “I yearn for …”
• “How many Souls have you sent down to the grave?” - How many People have you killed?”
• “Man can KILL the body but not the Soul…?” - “Man cannot DESTROY a Person…?”

Yes,,, the ancients didn't use the word Person but you insist on using it.

Luke 1:46-47 ESV And Mary said, “My soul magnifies the Lord, and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior, Hmmmmmm....
Mark 12:30 And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength. hmmmm....
Ps 103: 1. Bless the Lord, O my soul, and all that is within me, bless his holy name! Hmmmm. I wonder what else was in him besides his soul.. that was IN him. I wasn't Bless the Lord o my person!
Gen 1: So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.

I do not recall ever reading a trinitarian claim in which they distinguish between ‘DEATH’ (which is a HUMAN insight of the separation of Spirit from body), and DESTRUCTION, which is a SPIRITUAL DEATH.

Maybe you should enlarge your circle of friends?

SOUL is the biblical word for (Since the 1100’s era) PERSON. You can, in EVERY PLACE in the Bible where you read, ‘Soul’, replace it with ‘PERSON’ (and its derivatives: ‘Me, ‘I’, ‘Mine’, ‘Myself’ - Spirit and Body!)

But you are struggling to no positive degree to answer me when I ask you for example and explanation. The reason is simple: You cannot (It cannot…) be explained that ‘Soul’ is a THIRD PART OF A ….(person!!?)

I'm not talking about the year 1100. I'm talking script. Heart can mean soul / spirit / and or spirit & soul - you find out by context.

So... why do you struggle so much? (I thought I would throw it back to ya)

 

[Soapy]

The problem here is multifold:

1. You always resort to demeaning other posters (I'm not the first to point it out) without ever answering the item at hand
2. Notice how you never address 1 Thess 5 and Hebrews 4 - you just bypass them
3. Just because you make a statement doesn't mean it is true.
4. You say spirit and soul are the same thing and yet they are two different words that mean something different.

I haven't struggled a bit... I defined it quite well.



Yes,,, the ancients didn't use the word Person but you insist on using it.

Luke 1:46-47 ESV And Mary said, “My soul magnifies the Lord, and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior, Hmmmmmm....
Mark 12:30 And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength. hmmmm....
Ps 103: 1. Bless the Lord, O my soul, and all that is within me, bless his holy name! Hmmmm. I wonder what else was in him besides his soul.. that was IN him. I wasn't Bless the Lord o my person!
Gen 1: So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.




Maybe you should enlarge your circle of friends?


I'm not talking about the year 1100. I'm talking script. Heart can mean soul / spirit / and or spirit & soul - you find out by context.

So... why do you struggle so much? (I thought I would throw it back to ya)

I do not say that Soul and Spirit are the same things.

I have a clear idea of what I’m saying so there is no chance of me confusing the issue:

• The Soul is just a different language word for ‘Person’. Wherever the word ‘Soul’ appears in the scriptures it can be replaced by ‘Person’ or derivatives such as ‘Me’, ‘I’, ‘Myself’. It references the Spirit and the body that constitutes a living entity
• The Spirit is the aspect that is the animate / enlivening aspect of an entity. Without a spirit to animate / enliven an entity, that entity is non-existent. For every human, God has a Spirit detailed to along with an initial body. However, God may not yet place the Spirit into the body and so that Soul / Person is a non-livingentity. Non-living does not mean ‘Dead’! There is:
  1. Living (Active, in constant motion)
  2. Non-Living (Inactive but able to be active)
  3. Dead (Completely inactive, unable to communicate)
• There is the body. The body is the vessel which the spirit acts on and through. The body is not capable of maintaining itself - unless there is a spirit in it the body decays to dust

So, the body can be killed… which means that the spirit is made to be removed from the body but the Spirit CANNOT BE KILLED… it can only be DESTROYED. Destroyed means both the Spirit, and consequently the body, is no longer in existence… and therefore the PERSON, the Soul, no longer exists… the Soul is destroyed because both Spirit and body are destroyed.

When a Soul is said to have died, to have been killed, it means that their Spirit is removed from the body… the Spirit cannot be killed - it goes up to rest INACTIVE, NONCOMMUNICATIVE, RESTING in God.

The SOUL is then in a NON-LIVING STATE. The Person is capable of being made ALIVE again if God should put the testing spirit of the Person back into a body.

You know how when Adam was created, his body was created first, and there was a spirit assigned to him hence the Person of Adam was in a NON-LIVING STATE as the spirit had not yet been put into the body. Then GOD blew the breath of life into the body of THE PERSON, ADAM, and now the Person became a LIVING SOUL - a living PERSON.

I hope that helps you to understand the simple concept:

1. A Person is a Soul - just different words
2. A Soul/Person is a header term for the non-killable, non-dying IMMORTAL Spirit along with a killable / MORTAL vessel (a body) to act upon
3. A Soul/Person whose mortal vessel has been killed, or has died, is a NON-LIVING Soul/Person. The immortal Spirit has not a body to act upon so it is taken in by God in s restful state, inert, uncommunicative, dormant away from the world
4. Once God has assigned a Spirit to a body a Soul/Person is in existence and even if the body is killed the Soul/Person still exists
5. But if the SPIRIT is DESTROYED … which only God can do… then evidently the body will decay to dust and will no longer exist as a body. So without Spirit the SOUL/PERSON is destroyed (No longer in existence)

‘Do not be afraid of those who can KILL THE BODY but CANNOT KILL THE SOUL. Be afraid of the one who can DESTROY both SPIRIT and body…’

Do you notice the specific reference to ‘Kill’ and to ‘Destroy’? What can be Killed, and what can only be Destroyed?

Hebrews 412…. I can’t make head nor tail of what it means fully. The comments I’ve read say that Soul and Spirit are EXACTLY THE SAME MEANING… but remember that this is a GREEK WRITING and may contain HELLENISTIC beliefs.

Can you explain Hebrews 4:12: ‘Dividing Soul AND Spirit’…

(Note that it is not ‘Dividing SOUL FROM SPIRIT’!!)

 

[Soapy]

The problem here is multifold:

1. You always resort to demeaning other posters (I'm not the first to point it out) without ever answering the item at hand
2. Notice how you never address 1 Thess 5 and Hebrews 4 - you just bypass them
3. Just because you make a statement doesn't mean it is true.
4. You say spirit and soul are the same thing and yet they are two different words that mean something different.

I haven't struggled a bit... I defined it quite well.



Yes,,, the ancients didn't use the word Person but you insist on using it.

Luke 1:46-47 ESV And Mary said, “My soul magnifies the Lord, and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior, Hmmmmmm....
Mark 12:30 And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength. hmmmm....
Ps 103: 1. Bless the Lord, O my soul, and all that is within me, bless his holy name! Hmmmm. I wonder what else was in him besides his soul.. that was IN him. I wasn't Bless the Lord o my person!
Gen 1: So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.




Maybe you should enlarge your circle of friends?


I'm not talking about the year 1100. I'm talking script. Heart can mean soul / spirit / and or spirit & soul - you find out by context.

So... why do you struggle so much? (I thought I would throw it back to ya)

How do you say I haven’t responded about 1 Thes 5… nor Hebrews 4!!!!!

The WHOLE OF MY POST was disputing what you asked…

There is not another verse ANYWHERE that claims three parts to the human …. because SOUL IS PERSON… and BOTH mean ‘Spirit and Body’ in various states.

Trinitarians are always overeager to claim a threefold manhood which, in fact, was never a part of God’s image.

• God is SPIRIT and His Spirit ACTS IN and ON the created World

In the same way:

• MAN is Spirit and his Spirit ACTS IN and ON the created Body

Do you not see the Parallel???

In direct answer to - Thes 5., God always PRESERVES the Spirit of a man even if the body of that man is killed / Put to death /fallen to decay through accident or old age, disease or calamity. God even PRESERVES the demon SPIRITS (Fallen angels) until the day of DESTRUCTION!!!!

As for PRESERVING THE BODY… that is senseless since the body is mere flesh - DUST OF THE EARTH… every created flesh body God can recreate exactly or made more glorious if it fell into decay. There is no need for a prayer that God should PRESERVED it at all!!

And who in humanity would pray that God preserves his body if that body were deformed (Misshapen limbs?), diseased (Cancer?), mutilated in war, battle, fight! Would they not desire for a fully formed non diseased, fully functioning glorified body?

So, what is that verse really saying? Certainly not what you thought you found as a validity did your claim!!