God VS Evil

[Sleeppy]

Why do you believe God created evil? The Bible doesn't teach that. For example, James 1:13 says; "When under trial, let no one say: “I am being tried by God.” For with evil things God cannot be tried, nor does he himself try anyone."

James was right.. Refer to Jeremiah, or Job, or Hebrews 11:17:

By faith Abraham hath offered up Isaac, being tried, and the only begotten he did offer up who did receive the promises..


Is God ignorant? If you call him Judge, you attribute ignorance to Him, whereby it is relieved in judgement. God has no need to try, or discover, as if His creation is unbeknownst to Himself.

However, God does indeed ordain all things, so that the Son of Man, beginning from Adam's ignorance may judge, and thereby enter into judgement.

Those who believe that Abraham was commanded to sacrifice his son, believe according to Hebrews, that he was tried by God, in order that the Angel of the Lord receive a revelation of his faithfulness on His behalf. We see the same idea in just about every story. Angels were sent to inspect Sodom and Gomorrah, for instance, only after God hears report from elsewhere.

 

[Neo Deist]

Why do you believe God created evil? The Bible doesn't teach that.

Yes actually, it does.

Isaiah 45:7 (KJV)- "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."

It helps to study theology at university or seminary. You will cover various aspects of the Bible, including surveys of the OT and NT. If you rely on your preacher for your biblical info, chances are he/she is offering a biased opinion and not giving you the whole picture.

 

[Deidre]

He is willing. He is able. But, He lets humans be humans. We would be drones, if God kept stepping in to correct our mistakes, BEFORE we make them.

 

[Kartari]

Hi Neo Deist,

No, it's not.

Yes, it is. Lol.

 

[rusra02]

James was right.. Refer to Jeremiah, or Job, or Hebrews 11:17:

By faith Abraham hath offered up Isaac, being tried, and the only begotten he did offer up who did receive the promises..


Is God ignorant? If you call him Judge, you attribute ignorance to Him, whereby it is relieved in judgement. God has no need to try, or discover, as if His creation is unbeknownst to Himself.

However, God does indeed ordain all things, so that the Son of Man, beginning from Adam's ignorance may judge, and thereby enter into judgement.

Those who believe that Abraham was commanded to sacrifice his son, believe according to Hebrews, that he was tried by God, in order that the Angel of the Lord receive a revelation of his faithfulness on His behalf. We see the same idea in just about every story. Angels were sent to inspect Sodom and Gomorrah, for instance, only after God hears report from elsewhere.

Since Jehovah miraculously gave Abraham his son Isaac, and promised Abraham that Isaac would inherit God's covenant, this test of Abraham's faith and obedience was not evil or unrighteous, IMO. Nor did it indicate God was ignorant of Abraham's faith. (Hebrews 11:17-19) Jehovah stopped Abraham from offering his son. I believe this account demonstrated the need for faith in God, and foreshadowed what God himself did in sending Jesus Christ to die for our sins. (John 3:16) Jehovah has the ability to foreknow the future, but he is not forced to do so. Rather, I believe God chooses what to foreknow and controls what not to foreknow. Thus he sent his representatives to inspect Sodom, which is his perogative.

 

[rusra02]

Yes actually, it does.

Isaiah 45:7 (KJV)- "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."

It helps to study theology at university or seminary. You will cover various aspects of the Bible, including surveys of the OT and NT. If you rely on your preacher for your biblical info, chances are he/she is offering a biased opinion and not giving you the whole picture.

This verse in Isaiah was addressed in a previous post. As to universities and seminaries, neither Jesus Christ nor the apostles attained the accurate knowledge of the truth by attending the rabbinical schools and centers of religious study in their day. (John 7:15, Acts 4:13) Rather, those institutions produced many arrogant and self-righteous men who opposed and finally executed God's Son. I do agree we must examine our beliefs carefully in the light of what the Bible actually teaches.

 

[Neo Deist]

This verse in Isaiah was addressed in a previous post. As to universities and seminaries, neither Jesus Christ nor the apostles attained the accurate knowledge of the truth by attending the rabbinical schools and centers of religious study in their day. (John 7:15, Acts 4:13) Rather, those institutions produced many arrogant and self-righteous men who opposed and finally executed God's Son. I do agree we must examine our beliefs carefully in the light of what the Bible actually teaches.

Translation: when you don't like what the Bible says, just rewrite it.

 

[rusra02]

Translation: when you don't like what the Bible says, just rewrite it.

No, "but let God be found true, even if every man be found a liar." (Romans 3:4)

 

[Sleeppy]

Since Jehovah miraculously gave Abraham his son Isaac, and promised Abraham that Isaac would inherit God's covenant, this test of Abraham's faith and obedience was not evil or unrighteous, IMO. Nor did it indicate God was ignorant of Abraham's faith. (Hebrews 11:17-19) Jehovah stopped Abraham from offering his son. I believe this account demonstrated the need for faith in God, and foreshadowed what God himself did in sending Jesus Christ to die for our sins. (John 3:16) Jehovah has the ability to foreknow the future, but he is not forced to do so. Rather, I believe God chooses what to foreknow and controls what not to foreknow. Thus he sent his representatives to inspect Sodom, which is his perogative.

You're disregarding what James had said: "Let no one say that I am being tried by God."

1)We know child sacrifice is an evil thing. And, we know that God is said to have commanded Abraham to do this evil thing, to try him.
2) We know that the Angel of the Lord is said to have been the agent by which God's ignorance was rectified.

You admit that God may foreknow, but deny that He is all-knowing. The loopholes in this belief are of adversarial descent. Here's why:

1) Exodus 32:14
God repented of the evil which He had spoken of doing to His people.

Moses is here, likewise attributing ignorance and malleability, to God. The result is the alleged subversion of God's will- His evil intent- in favor of Moses' will. Not only is the Most High challenged, but overcome.

2) 1 Samuel 15:29
The Pre-eminence of Israel does not lie, nor repent, for He [is] not a man to be penitent.'

1 Samuel 15:35
And Samuel had not added to see Saul until the day of his death, for Samuel mourned for Saul, and God repented that He had caused Saul to reign over Israel.

Which is it?

Is God unrepentant, all-knowing, and unchanging?

Or is He penitent, and unsure of Himself, at times?

Numbers 23:19, 20
God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good? Behold, I have received commandment to bless: and he hath blessed; and I cannot reverse it.



No one honors the Father above His determination. Why?

The Father first honors Himself. Then is the Son of Man honored, so that he may honor his Father according to himself.

God knows what you have need of before you ask. God knows who are His, and nothing can remove them from His hand.


For neither does the Father judge any one, but all the judgment He has given to the Son:


You have heard God's command, according to Moses, "an eye for an eye". And you have heard God's command, according to Jesus, "not to resist the evil, but whoever may slap you on your right cheek, turn to him also the other."

Your own judgement is reciprocated.

If you accept the spirit of Cain, God enforces you, so that cities are built alongside armies, and life accompanies death.


Understand what is being said here. We consider ourselves gods, i.e. judges, and this is what Jesus began to rectify. God has made us to believe we are judges, so that in the Life, we live on the Earth. But, the Most High truth is in heaven: "I Am; beside Me there are no gods."

Ignorance and malleability are not of the Father, but of adversarial descent.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

The true God is both willing and able. Evil comes from wicked rebels against God, both human and spirit, IMO. (1 John 5:19, Deuteronomy 32:4,5)

So God is willing and able but doesn't? How is that better?

Are you telling me some bratty humans can seriously get one over on God?

Alternatively, if we would repent before the whip strikes, there'd be no need for the whip.

So people are vitims of sin because God already bought a case of whips?

I believe the true God gives his intelligent creatures the gift of free will.

But then how come we can't take credit for when we do things that are good (we have to give credit to God)? Why does free will only seem to exist when we do something bad?

I believe it is anything contrary to God's will or purpose.

But how is it possible given all the omni's?

How can non-omnipotent beings get one over on an omnipotent one?

A robot has no option. It simply does what it is programmed to do.

AI can have options, though, just as we only have the options we were given.

Adam and Eve chose badly.

How ... can ... two ... idiots ... get ... the ... better ... of ... God?

Believers like to wiggle all over the place, but the fact remains that a deity capable of omnipotence, omniscience, and supreme benevolence is, logically speaking, entirely incompatible with reality as we know it.

To be fair, though, I suggest that Hellenization brought in the omni stuff, as God is simply not portrayed that way in the bible, despite claims to the contrary, which seem shoehorned in.

Not to mention, it makes God look either insane or sadistic.

Or just incredibly stupid. The majority of negative God-human interactions in the bible could've been prevented easily had God had a decent IQ and knowledge of human psychology.

No, actually it is Christian to point out that a person who serves Satan is not in the light.

But Satan is God's employee and can do nothing without God's okay. Christians have no problem following middle management, which is why Jesus tends to be prayed to over the actual God.

but with the ability of moral choice

Says who? The ENTIRE POINT of the fruit is to GRANT you the ability to have moral choice.

Sadly, Adam proved disloyal, in contrast with the perfect man Jesus Christ, who proved perfect in his integrity. (Hebrews 4:15)

Yes, someone who runs away from mobs and prays fervently to avoid getting killed is totally perfect.

this test of Abraham's faith and obedience was not evil or unrighteous, IMO

It is jerking his chain, as much as He admits to doing in Job. If He already knows your heart, "testing" is superfluous.

As to universities and seminaries, neither Jesus Christ nor the apostles attained the accurate knowledge of the truth by attending the rabbinical schools and centers of religious study in their day. (John 7:15, Acts 4:13)

Even if Jesus had the Truth, the bible notes that Jesus frequently was frustrated with the ignorance of the apostles. You are trusting the words of people Jesus supposedly thought were morons. Even before Jesus died, the apostles were faithless, ignorant of elementary-school levels of parables, and egotistical. The apostles praised ignorance because as con artists, they can't fool non-fools. I have seen it said that if the apostles had been lying about Jesus, people would've been angry and called them out on it, but that's PRECISELY what the bible shows us. It's just the apostles decided to call their critics children of Satan to distract from the truth.

 

[Tumah]

So people are vitims of sin because God already bought a case of whips?

I understand you were busy answering a large number of posts in one shot, but I can't figure out what you're asking here or how it fits with what I said.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Also, think about this. Some Christians say we need free will so that they can be saved. Yet, in heaven, is there free will? When lucifer went against god, then it sound obvious there is free will? If that is true, why call it heaven? and if it is heaven because it is perfect, why is that different than not having free will on earth--if that be the case, we'd still be with god just as in heaven so why is it wrong?

If you have free will on earth but not in heaven, why not a Christian want no free will on earth so he or she can be in heaven only with god?

Does a Christian, like a Muslim, feel they are to submit to god or only follow (kind of like saying 'I'm sorry with a reservation')?

 

[Neo Deist]

He is way out there, Slayer. Way out there.

If by way out there you mean someone who thinks for himself, remains skeptical of the supernatural, looks at a situation from multiple angles, is an outside-of-the-box type of philosopher, researches topics to extreme ends, looks at religious texts in multiple languages, and uses my God given intelligence to draw my own conclusions...then yes, I am way out there.

Welcome to the 21st century.

 

[idav]

If that is true, why call it heaven?

The type of heaven that has major wars between good and evil every so often.

 

[First Baseman]

Also, think about this. Some Christians say we need free will so that they can be saved. Yet, in heaven, is there free will? When lucifer went against god, then it sound obvious there is free will? If that is true, why call it heaven? and if it is heaven because it is perfect, why is that different than not having free will on earth--if that be the case, we'd still be with god just as in heaven so why is it wrong?

If you have free will on earth but not in heaven, why not a Christian want no free will on earth so he or she can be in heaven only with god?

Does a Christian, like a Muslim, feel they are to submit to god or only follow (kind of like saying 'I'm sorry with a reservation')?

You claim to be spiritual yet you don't understand these things?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Edit: To answer your question just in case you dont want to read my full post, yes I am spiritual. My faith has nothing to do with free will as a christian see it. We dont need bad things to make good choices. We make choices based our karma. If we make bad karma by say how we speak to people it builds up. Its a cause/effect relationship that We have control over jot god and no satan.

So you are asking me an irrelevant question to my faith. You have to rephrase ot Without sarcasm.

You claim to be spiritual yet you don't understand these things?

Correction: "you claim to be a former christian and you dont understand these things?"

No sarcasm. "Ask" if I am looking for understanding or maybe just curious or wanting to know various opinions.

No assumptions.

Spirituality is not limited to a belief in free will. Thats all christian. Dont limit spirituality to christianity. If you do, your comments will sound bias because you are not taking the other persons belief or view into consideration as truth.

In other words, you are using the term "spirituality" in a christian view when I am not christian. Thats like eating soup with a fork. What you said is an insult if I were christian. Since I am not

Please ask what I mean by my post and ask about my poi t of view and not jump to conclusions that your view of spirituality should be mine.

Step out of the box. Read my post "actively." No sarcasm.

 

[rusra02]

You're disregarding what James had said: "Let no one say that I am being tried by God."

1)We know child sacrifice is an evil thing. And, we know that God is said to have commanded Abraham to do this evil thing, to try him.
2) We know that the Angel of the Lord is said to have been the agent by which God's ignorance was rectified.

You admit that God may foreknow, but deny that He is all-knowing. The loopholes in this belief are of adversarial descent. Here's why:

1) Exodus 32:14
God repented of the evil which He had spoken of doing to His people.

Moses is here, likewise attributing ignorance and malleability, to God. The result is the alleged subversion of God's will- His evil intent- in favor of Moses' will. Not only is the Most High challenged, but overcome.

2) 1 Samuel 15:29
The Pre-eminence of Israel does not lie, nor repent, for He [is] not a man to be penitent.'

1 Samuel 15:35
And Samuel had not added to see Saul until the day of his death, for Samuel mourned for Saul, and God repented that He had caused Saul to reign over Israel.

Which is it?

Is God unrepentant, all-knowing, and unchanging?

Or is He penitent, and unsure of Himself, at times?

Numbers 23:19, 20
God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good? Behold, I have received commandment to bless: and he hath blessed; and I cannot reverse it.



No one honors the Father above His determination. Why?

The Father first honors Himself. Then is the Son of Man honored, so that he may honor his Father according to himself.

God knows what you have need of before you ask. God knows who are His, and nothing can remove them from His hand.


For neither does the Father judge any one, but all the judgment He has given to the Son:


You have heard God's command, according to Moses, "an eye for an eye". And you have heard God's command, according to Jesus, "not to resist the evil, but whoever may slap you on your right cheek, turn to him also the other."

Your own judgement is reciprocated.

If you accept the spirit of Cain, God enforces you, so that cities are built alongside armies, and life accompanies death.


Understand what is being said here. We consider ourselves gods, i.e. judges, and this is what Jesus began to rectify. God has made us to believe we are judges, so that in the Life, we live on the Earth. But, the Most High truth is in heaven: "I Am; beside Me there are no gods."

Ignorance and malleability are not of the Father, but of adversarial descent.

When Jehovah feels regret, it is never due to a change in his righteous standards. "On a number of occasions, the Bible mentions that Jehovah “felt regret.” (Jonah 3:10; Gen. 6:6, 7; Judg. 2:18; 1 Sam. 15:11) Since God’s activity is perfect, his regret is never because of a mistake on his part. (Num. 23:19; Deut. 32:4) Rather, in Hebrew, to feel regret can mean to change one’s mind or intention. For example, because Jehovah is reasonable, adaptable, and merciful, he is willing to alter his intended actions toward erring ones in response to their repentance and the changes that they make.—Jer. 18:7-10." (w13-1/15)
As to God's command to Abraham to offer his son as a sacrifice, I believe God did this to display his own love in sending his dearest Son to die for mankind. This event brings home to us the anguish Jehovah felt in a way mere words could not, IMO. Neither was Isaac a child, but rather a grown man.
Your post reminds me of what Jehovah told the fault finding Israelites in exile; "You people will certainly say: ‘The way of Jehovah is not adjusted right.’ Hear, please, O house of Israel. Is not my own way adjusted right? Are not the ways of you people not adjusted right?”—Ezek. 18:25.

 

[Sleeppy]

When Jehovah feels regret, it is never due to a change in his righteous standards. "On a number of occasions, the Bible mentions that Jehovah “felt regret.” (Jonah 3:10; Gen. 6:6, 7; Judg. 2:18; 1 Sam. 15:11) Since God’s activity is perfect, his regret is never because of a mistake on his part. (Num. 23:19; Deut. 32:4) Rather, in Hebrew, to feel regret can mean to change one’s mind or intention. For example, because Jehovah is reasonable, adaptable, and merciful, he is willing to alter his intended actions toward erring ones in response to their repentance and the changes that they make.—Jer. 18:7-10." (w13-1/15)
As to God's command to Abraham to offer his son as a sacrifice, I believe God did this to display his own love in sending his dearest Son to die for mankind. This event brings home to us the anguish Jehovah felt in a way mere words could not, IMO. Neither was Isaac a child, but rather a grown man.
Your post reminds me of what Jehovah told the fault finding Israelites in exile; "You people will certainly say: ‘The way of Jehovah is not adjusted right.’ Hear, please, O house of Israel. Is not my own way adjusted right? Are not the ways of you people not adjusted right?”—Ezek. 18:25.

A malleable God. A penitent, unsure God. A God among gods. This isn't what you intend to believe.