God's Israel in the new testament who is it *Romans 9:6-8

[3rdAngel]

I object to your use of the term “true.” Replacement theology is disingenuous and incongruent with the understanding of the authors. The OP is fundamentally flawed.

I believe that there is no such thing as "replacement theology". I believe it is only a term invented by those who deny God's Word. What you will notice is that those who use this term cannot prove their claims through the scriptures but simply deny them.

 

[3rdAngel]

OF COURSE IT IS

Depends if you believe the scriptures or not in the new testament....

WHO IS GOD'S ISRAEL ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURES?

1. What is the origin of the name of Israel and what does it mean?
2. Who are those identified as God's Israel in the new covenant?
3. Are gentiles grafted in to God's Israel?
4. What about the nation of Israel?
5. What about the Sabbath and Israel?

I believe only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it *ROMANS 3:4. I am sorry my friend. I believe God's Word disagrees with you.

Hope this helps

 

[sojourner]

I believe that there is no such thing as "replacement theology

What you believe has no bearing on what is real. PROVE that there is no such thing. MY proof is right there in your post. Ignoring what you wrote doesn’t make it go away.

 

[sojourner]

Depends if you believe the scriptures or not in the new testament....

Depends on whether you have a valid interpretation of the texts or not. Yours is obviously biased and weak.

 

[moorea944]

So, the main question was what is Romans 9 v 1-6 all about. Great question.

In Romans in general, Paul is talking to the Jews and ... the Gentiles too. Not at the same time though...

Romans 9 goes with chapter 11 too dont forget. Romans 11 is about how we... (the Gentiles - non Jews) are grafted in. Well, grafted into what? What does that mean?.... This goes all the way back to the promises to Abraham, which we are now "grafted into". We are not Jews by blood, but by faith. We can also call us "spiritual Jews" too. We are now grafted in to the promises. Romans 11 talks about how Israel didnt believe and fell away from God. And because of that, we (Gentiles) now have a chance of salvation. Ever wonder why scripture talks about salvation in a way .... to the Jews first, then to the Gentiles?

But anyhow... Romans 9. Paul is talking to the Gentiles (non Jews). He's talking about the Jews and their salvation and the Gentiles salvation too. Because we are not the actual seed of Abraham, we are seed of Isaac because of the promises.

Paul also talks about the promises to Abraham in Galatians 3. When we get baptised, we are now in the promises. And we are now "in Christ". That is why baptism is so important for salvation. Salvation is not just belief only like some religions think. There is alot more to it too, but for another time.

And what are the promises... anyone know?????

 

[3rdAngel]

What you believe has no bearing on what is real. PROVE that there is no such thing. MY proof is right there in your post. Ignoring what you wrote doesn’t make it go away.

Sure it does. I have provided the scriptures as evidence and proof to what I believe. Your only providing empty words and accusations you are unable to prove that has no evidence. If you disagree please prove why you disagree. You cannot can you because you do not know the scriptures. Here you go here are the scriptures again perhaps you would like to show why it is you disagree (linked below)?

..............

WHO IS GOD'S ISRAEL ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURES?

1. What is the origin of the name of Israel and what does it mean?
2. Who are those identified as God's Israel in the new covenant?
3. Are gentiles grafted in to God's Israel?
4. What about the nation of Israel?
5. What about the Sabbath and Israel?

I believe only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it *ROMANS 3:4. I am sorry my friend. I believe God's Word disagrees with you. We will have to agree to disagree

 

[3rdAngel]

So, the main question was what is Romans 9 v 1-6 all about. Great question.

In Romans in general, Paul is talking to the Jews and ... the Gentiles too. Not at the same time though...
Romans 9 goes with chapter 11 too dont forget. Romans 11 is about how we... (the Gentiles - non Jews) are grafted in. Well, grafted into what? What does that mean?.... This goes all the way back to the promises to Abraham, which we are now "grafted into". We are not Jews by blood, but by faith. We can also call us "spiritual Jews" too. We are now grafted in to the promises. Romans 11 talks about how Israel didnt believe and fell away from God. And because of that, we (Gentiles) now have a chance of salvation. Ever wonder why scripture talks about salvation in a way .... to the Jews first, then to the Gentiles?

But anyhow... Romans 9. Paul is talking to the Gentiles (non Jews). He's talking about the Jews and their salvation and the Gentiles salvation too. Because we are not the actual seed of Abraham, we are seed of Isaac because of the promises.

Paul also talks about the promises to Abraham in Galatians 3. When we get baptised, we are now in the promises. And we are now "in Christ". That is why baptism is so important for salvation. Salvation is not just belief only like some religions think. There is alot more to it too, but for another time.

And what are the promises... anyone know?????

Hi moorea944 nice to meet you and welcome here. Thankyou! Someone that believes and follows God's Word and studies the scirptures for themselves. Great post!

 

[moorea944]

Hi moorea944 nice to meet you and welcome here. Thankyou! Someone that believes and follows God's Word and studies the scirptures for themselves. Great post!

Thank you.

 

[sojourner]

Sure it does. I have provided the scriptures as evidence and proof to what I believe.

Nope. You're opinions don't match the texts you've provided. Try again.

 

[3rdAngel]

Nope. You're opinions don't match the texts you've provided. Try again.

Well your welcome to prove your claims. As posted earlier jumping up and down saying no because you say so when you have been provided the evidence of the scriptures that disagree with you only show your disagreeing because you do not believe the scriptures posted, yet you cannot show why it is you disagree as you have no evidence to support your claims and opinions.

 

[sojourner]

Well your welcome to prove your claims. As posted earlier jumping up and down saying no because you say so when you have been provided the evidence of the scriptures that disagree with you only show your disagreeing because you do not believe the scriptures posted, yet you cannot show why it is you disagree as you have no evidence to support your claims and opinions.

You have yet to prove your claims. That’s my argument. I’m disagreeing because you haven’t proven your claims. This is not validated or invalidated by whether I believe the texts. You simply have not proven your claims. You need to prove your claims.

 

[3rdAngel]

You have yet to prove your claims. That’s my argument. I’m disagreeing because you haven’t proven your claims. This is not validated or invalidated by whether I believe the texts. You simply have not proven your claims. You need to prove your claims.

Not really my friend. I believe I have already proven the OP through the scriptures in the linked posts below for all to see...

WHO IS GOD'S ISRAEL ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURES?

1. What is the origin of the name of Israel and what does it mean?
2. Who are those identified as God's Israel in the new covenant?
3. Are gentiles grafted in to God's Israel?
4. What about the nation of Israel?
5. What about the Sabbath and Israel?

It is you jumping up and down saying no, yet you are unable to prove why you say no. So your words are only empty claims and accusations you cannot prove because you do not believe God's Word.

 

[Good-Ole-Rebel]

Not really my friend. I believe I have already proven the OP through the scriptures in the linked posts below for all to see...

WHO IS GOD'S ISRAEL ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURES?

1. What is the origin of the name of Israel and what does it mean?
2. Who are those identified as God's Israel in the new covenant?
3. Are gentiles grafted in to God's Israel?
4. What about the nation of Israel?
5. What about the Sabbath and Israel?

It is you jumping up and down saying no, yet you are unable to prove why you say no. So your words are only empty claims and accusations you cannot prove because you do not believe God's Word.

1.) The origin of the name of Israel comes from (Gen. 32:28) It means 'he who strives with God' or 'God strives'.

2.) Those identified as God's Israel in the New Testament are the Jewish remnant. The Israel of God. (Gal. 6:16) (Rom. 11:5) They are the physical Jews who believe in Christ. They are not Gentiles who believe.

3.) No, Gentiles are not grafted into Israel. They are grafted into the Abrahamic Covenant of which Israel is the natural branch and Gentiles are the wild branch.

4.) The nation of Israel consists of physical Jews. The nation of Israel in God's eyes, consists of physical Jews who believe. The unbelieving Jew is not considered by God an Israelite or Jew. This does not make a believing Gentile a Jew.

5.) Israel was commanded to observe the Sabbath. But the Church is under no such commandment. (Col. 2:16-17)

Two errors exist in this regard.

Error #1.) Believing Gentiles believe they are now 'spiritual Israel'.

Error#2.) Unbelieving Jews believe they are physical Israel.

Good-Ole-Rebel

 

[3rdAngel]

1.) The origin of the name of Israel comes from (Gen. 32:28) It means 'he who strives with God' or 'God strives'.

2.) Those identified as God's Israel in the New Testament are the Jewish remnant. The Israel of God. (Gal. 6:16) (Rom. 11:5) They are the physical Jews who believe in Christ. They are not Gentiles who believe.

3.) No, Gentiles are not grafted into Israel. They are grafted into the Abrahamic Covenant of which Israel is the natural branch and Gentiles are the wild branch.

4.) The nation of Israel consists of physical Jews. The nation of Israel in God's eyes, consists of physical Jews who believe. The unbelieving Jew is not considered by God an Israelite or Jew. This does not make a believing Gentile a Jew.

5.) Israel was commanded to observe the Sabbath. But the Church is under no such commandment. (Col. 2:16-17)

Two errors exist in this regard.

Error #1.) Believing Gentiles believe they are now 'spiritual Israel'.

Error#2.) Unbelieving Jews believe they are physical Israel.

Good-Ole-Rebel

Hi GOR, nice to meet you. Did you read the scriptures in the linked posts in the OP? Everything you have objected to has already been addressed with scriptures showing much of what you claim here is not true. In you post here you have made claims but do not provide any scripture to support your claims. All you have provided is your opinion which is not based on the scriptures or the bible although I thank you for providing your opinion but I do not believe it is biblical. Romans 11:13-27 is written to Gentile believers not JEWS. If you are not a part of God's ISRAEAL according to the scriptures then you have no part in God's new covenant promise *HEBREWS 8:10-12

 

[sojourner]

Not really my friend. I believe I have already proven the OP through the scriptures in the linked posts below for all to see...

WHO IS GOD'S ISRAEL ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURES?

1. What is the origin of the name of Israel and what does it mean?
2. Who are those identified as God's Israel in the new covenant?
3. Are gentiles grafted in to God's Israel?
4. What about the nation of Israel?
5. What about the Sabbath and Israel?

It is you jumping up and down saying no, yet you are unable to prove why you say no. So your words are only empty claims and accusations you cannot prove because you do not believe God's Word.

Actually, it’s you who are jumping up and down, making absurd claims that cannot be reconciled with the texts you’ve presented by any rational person.

 

[Good-Ole-Rebel]

Hi GOR, nice to meet you. Did you read the scriptures in the linked posts in the OP? Everything you have objected to has already been addressed with scriptures showing much of what you claim here is not true. In you post here you have made claims but do not provide any scripture to support your claims. All you have provided is your opinion which is not based on the scriptures or the bible although I thank you for providing your opinion but I do not believe it is biblical. Romans 11:13-27 is written to Gentile believers not JEWS. If you are not a part of God's ISRAEAL according to the scriptures then you have no part in God's new covenant promise *HEBREWS 8:10-12

Actually I did provide some Scripture.

Your only support from Scripture is the result of your redefining Israel. Every time you see Israel in the New Testament, you see it as the Church. Just because you refine Israel, doesn't mean God has. And He hasn't.

The book of (Romans) was written to the Church at Rome which was definitely Gentile. Of course Paul makes reference to Jews when presenting his Gospel. But, (Rom. 9-11) specifcally pertains to the Jews. Paul is clear here. (Rom. 9:3-4) "For I could wish that myself wereaccursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: Who are Israelites;...."

Good-Ole-Rebel

 

[3rdAngel]

Actually, it’s you who are jumping up and down, making absurd claims that cannot be reconciled with the texts you’ve presented by any rational person.

Not really my dear friend. I have only provided Gods' Word. Yout the only one jumping up and down denying them. If you disagree prove why you disagree from the scriptures. As posted earlier jumping up and down saying no because you say so does not make it so.

 

[3rdAngel]

Actually I did provide some Scripture.

Your only support from Scripture is the result of your redefining Israel. Every time you see Israel in the New Testament, you see it as the Church. Just because you refine Israel, doesn't mean God has. And He hasn't.

The book of (Romans) was written to the Church at Rome which was definitely Gentile. Of course Paul makes reference to Jews when presenting his Gospel. But, (Rom. 9-11) specifcally pertains to the Jews. Paul is clear here. (Rom. 9:3-4) "For I could wish that myself wereaccursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: Who are Israelites;...."

Good-Ole-Rebel

What scriptures have you provided with your opinions? Sorry I did not see any. Romans is written to Genile believers read ROMANS 11:13-27 and the scriptures in the linked posts earlier. Romans 9 is also to the Gentile believers. Paul is stating in v1-4 to Gentile beleivers that he has heaviness of heart because of those JEWS who did not believe JESUS was the promised Messiah v5-6 but then goes on to state to the Gentiles who God's true ISRAEL is...

ROMANS 9:6-8 [6], Not as though the word of God has taken none effect. FOR THEY ARE NOT ALL ISRAEL, WHICH ARE OF ISRAEL: [7], NEITHER, BECAUSE THEY ARE THE SEED OF ABRAHAM, ARE THEY ALL CHILDREN: but, In Isaac shall your seed be called. [8], THAT IS, THEY WHICH ARE THE CHILDREN OF THE FLESH, THESE ARE NOT THE CHILDREN OF GOD: BUT THE CHILDREN OF THE PROMISE ARE COUNTED FOR THE SEED.

The children of the promise are counted for the seed. That is God's ISREAL wheather JEW or GENTILE are all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's Word.

If we are not a part of God's true ISRAEL (those who believe and follow God's Word) then we have no part in God's new covenant promise....

HEBREWS 8:10 [10], FOR THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL after those days, said the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people

Gentiles are now grafted in *ROMANS 11:13-27

I am sorry my dear friend I believe God's Word disagrees with you.

Hope this is helpful

 

[sojourner]

I have only provided Gods' Word.

You have provided really weak "interpretations."

 

[3rdAngel]

You have provided really weak "interpretations."

I have only provided scripture from God's Word and let the bible interpret itself. They are Gods' Words not my words in response you provide your words and opinions that are not God's but yours. If you believe what you have posted is true then prove it and show why. If you cannot why do you not believe Gods Word that are not my words but Gods?