Gods of Hinduism

[Jaskaran Singh]

....aaand hence why this user-name was chosen. lol

I cannot lie though. It's one of the shortcomings of trying to be both anonymous and brutally honest simultaneously...

What gave it away? Was it my blind devotion to Bhairava? or was it the fact that I suffer with 'selective scriptural amnesia'?

Well, those two reasons and the fact that you seemed to have talked about Australian politics on here (as I remembered how you said you were from Australia on HDF).

It's not that I 'don't have any evidence to support my beliefs' just because I can't reference a Holy Book and go....ah, there we go...see now?'

I have studied all the Vedas, Upanishads, Bhagavatam, Mahabharata, Valmiki's Ramayana and all that like 20 years ago now. I spent 10 years doing nothing but that!

I recall all the 'stories'...I recall all the 'teachings' from everything I have read and I do recall many Shlokas, Mantras from these and where they are, but I really and honestly don't want to go back and revisit all that! You could say that I am 'over it'.

I could give an example using something that I 'remember' from say, one of the Upanishads and the details will be correct and accurate in every way...but I honestly cannot be bothered going to look up the chapter, the verse, how it is written in Sanskrit...I really cannot be bothered.

Since leaving behind all the 'main books of Hinduism', I started studying Patanjali's Yoga Sutras, the Hatha Yoga Pradipika, Vijnana Bhairava Tantra, Saundarya Lahari and the Virashaiva texts, so yeah...I went that way instead...

That's perfectly okay. Like I said, I don't want to get in an argument. Please forgive me for seeming a bit hostile at first.

...so, you asking me to say where Lord Rama worshiped Lord Siva is stated in the Scriptures when there's even a whole city named after the place where that happened and it's also one of our 12 Jyotirlingams...well, to a Shaiva, that is all rather non-sequitir.
Om Namah Shivay.

Hence why I said that you couldn't cite any of the folk legends of Rāmeśvaram. I was specifically asking for details located within the Vālmīki Rāmāyaṇam regarding that event because I don't remember it having any reference to Śrī Rāma worshiping Śiva and it would be quite odd (to say the least) for Vālmīki to ignore such an important detail.

 

[NobodyYouKnow]

Well, those two reasons and the fact that you seemed to have talked about Australian politics on here (as I remembered how you said you were from Australia on HDF).


That's perfectly okay. Like I said, I don't want to get in an argument. Please forgive me for seeming a bit hostile at first.

Hence why I said that you couldn't cite any of the folk legends of Rāmeśvaram. I was specifically asking for details located within the Vālmīki Rāmāyaṇam regarding that event because I don't remember it having any reference to Śrī Rāma worshiping Śiva and it would be quite odd (to say the least) for Vālmīki to ignore such an important detail.

Namaste.

Ahhh...politics...my 'undoing' as always.

I forgive you, but now you know it is me, you don't have to be 'hostile' anymore. Nice, isn't it?

Okay, I shall stop doing that...it's fun though.

However, for the rest of everything..

A young scholar approaches a Sadhu...(you won't find this anywhere in the Scriptures)...

Scholar: "your way is totally wrong. You cannot realise God through meditation in this Yuga - look, it says so here in this book".
Sadhu: "yes, you are totally right there. I fully agree" *keeps meditating*
Scholar: "yet, you are still meditating?...that's the height of ignorance right there. You cannot 'realize Brahman' through meditation, only through the love of God".
Sadhu: "yes, you are totally right there. I fully agree" *keeps meditating*
Scholar: "Do you have any book or scriptures to say that what you are doing is right? I mean, if somebody didn't write it down somewhere, it's not true".
Sadhu: "no, I cannot read...should I learn?" *keeps meditating*

Om Namah Shivay

 

[Kalidas]

Namaste.

I have often wondered why Shiva is in meditation...in that what does God realize when God realizes God? :banghead3

Om Namah Shivaya

Maybe to be alone with his Godly thoughts? Maybe to meditate on other Gods? Maybe as a representation of what WE SHOULD DO? Maybe there is no reason except he is God and it does not matter. God does what God does because he is God

 

[Kalidas]

From the perspective of a smārta (or a neo-Hindu) who follows the "all-gods-are-equal" train of thought, then I agree, it would not matter. However, if one is to make a claim regarding the superiority of one's own iṣṭa-devatā on a public forum and yet lack the ability to quote evidence in order to back it up, then it's good to at least establish that this is indeed the case, no? I don't want to get in an argument, so I'll shut up now. :foot:

Do you not like us a Neo Hindus? lol just curiosity. I wouldn't say I feel the Gods are all the same but yes I would probably go with they are equal. Not trying to argue either just want to hear your opinion on the subject.

Scholar: "your way is totally wrong. You cannot realise God through meditation in this Yuga - look, it says so here in this book".
Sadhu: "yes, you are totally right there. I fully agree" *keeps meditating*
Scholar: "yet, you are still meditating?...that's the height of ignorance right there. You cannot 'realize Brahman' through meditation, only through the love of God".
Sadhu: "yes, you are totally right there. I fully agree" *keeps meditating*
Scholar: "Do you have any book or scriptures to say that what you are doing is right? I mean, if somebody didn't write it down somewhere, it's not true".
Sadhu: "no, I cannot read...should I learn?" *keeps meditating*

^I like that Nobody you know that was cute

 

[NobodyYouKnow]

Do you not like us a Neo Hindus? lol just curiosity. I wouldn't say I feel the Gods are all the same but yes I would probably go with they are equal. Not trying to argue either just want to hear your opinion on the subject.

Scholar: "your way is totally wrong. You cannot realise God through meditation in this Yuga - look, it says so here in this book".
Sadhu: "yes, you are totally right there. I fully agree" *keeps meditating*
Scholar: "yet, you are still meditating?...that's the height of ignorance right there. You cannot 'realize Brahman' through meditation, only through the love of God".
Sadhu: "yes, you are totally right there. I fully agree" *keeps meditating*
Scholar: "Do you have any book or scriptures to say that what you are doing is right? I mean, if somebody didn't write it down somewhere, it's not true".
Sadhu: "no, I cannot read...should I learn?" *keeps meditating*

^I like that Nobody you know that was cute

Namaste and thanks, I do try and be 'cute' wherever possible. =)

It took me years to get over the whole 'all Gods are the same/different/Even Gods at all' thing.

The whole problem arises when we split the one into two. It's like Nuclear Fission, starting a whole chain-reaction of 'Hindu Gods' resulting in a massive explosion of public ignorance.

See, in our own ignorance, sometimes we like to think/believe we know these things to be true. We get to only glimpse the end of the rainbow and already believe we have our 'pot of gold'....so we liken ourselves unto God.

Then we can witness our own presumptive attitude, and from within the endless ocean of Cosmic Illumination, the sword of discrimination comes...killing our huge ego-head.

It comes as swiftly as a beautiful, dark-skinned night thief...

Aum Bhatuk Bhairavaye Namah
Aum Namah Shivaya

 

[Poeticus]

Well, apart from the fact that the first verifiable neolithic sites were located in sub-Saharan Africa, a considerable distance away from the so-called "Fertile-Crescent" (making your view of the diffusion of agriculture from the Middle East incorrect from a historical perspective), I'm wondering whether there is any śāstra-pramāṇa for such a view (from what I've read in Hindu scriptures, it seems that Indian civilization spread from the South to the North). In any case, your claim that "it says so in the scripture" is purely hearsay unless you can provide any quotations to back it up.


Using that logic, it seems I must have invaded Karl Benz and Henry Ford, as I drive a car daily.

Sheesh. I shouldn't have deleted one of my comments from this thread. V's comment that you were replying to was from a conversation between him and me about the absurdity of AIT/AMT. Him and me were parodying the theories; I was making fun about college courses that did not teach about Dorian Invasions of Greece even when they should have because of their warped bias while he was making fun about Western Historians (etc.) usually having a tendency to start from the Middle East 'cause of a certain religious bias/influence....I deleted my comment because it did not relate to the topic of the OP....I log back on to find that it has gone completely off topic....

 

[NobodyYouKnow]

So, I am just going 'off to study' now...and when I say I am 'going off to study', that usually means listening to Metal. LOL

I guess I am just not cut out to be a 'master debator'.

Please pay special heed to the lyrics. It sums it all up (and where I am up to):

*I really like these Youtube imbeds - I feel spoiled...

[youtube]5AWbgkRpYwc[/youtube]
Linkin Park-In The End Lyrics - YouTube

Aum Namah Shivaya

 

[Kalidas]

Get over it. so was it once a belief you held and have since given up on it? I think the problem arises when one allows confusion to run rampant. I may feel that each God is equaly divine and deserving of worship. Yeti feel i am fairly focused. I worship very much Kali maa. Hanuman and Genesha are also invikved but not on the same scale that Kali maa is to me. she is my ishta when i think of God she is what comes to my mind. Others will see shiva,vishnu, genesha, hanuman, durga, krishna, eyc etc.To me being equal in divinity does not mean equal in our hearts. I personaly believe that the divine,Gid, etc etc is revealed to us in many different forms. Just because i feel all deities are equaly divine it does not mean I equaly worahip them all equaly. Yet this is me and what i think and i can and have been wrong

 

[Poeticus]

So, I am just going 'off to study' now...and when I say I am 'going off to study', that usually means listening to Metal. LOL

Psssstt......not hard enough, brah. The following is where it's at:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQBNH3UFEC0

 

[Kalicharan Tuvij]

Namaste.

I have often wondered why Shiva is in meditation...in that what does God realize when God realizes God? :banghead3

Om Namah Shivaya

Shiva does tapa for the sake of Sat; that is, a continuous effort required in remaining connected to viSva. One can alternately say, He worships Mother, and when Devi does bless Him with Her presence, then Sat is naturally attained, and then no need to do that kind of tapa: because Shiva becomes a Family Man now!

 

[NobodyYouKnow]

Get over it. so was it once a belief you held and have since given up on it? I think the problem arises when one allows confusion to run rampant. I may feel that each God is equaly divine and deserving of worship. Yeti feel i am fairly focused. I worship very much Kali maa. Hanuman and Genesha are also invikved but not on the same scale that Kali maa is to me. she is my ishta when i think of God she is what comes to my mind. Others will see shiva,vishnu, genesha, hanuman, durga, krishna, eyc etc.To me being equal in divinity does not mean equal in our hearts. I personaly believe that the divine,Gid, etc etc is revealed to us in many different forms. Just because i feel all deities are equaly divine it does not mean I equaly worahip them all equaly. Yet this is me and what i think and i can and have been wrong

Namaste, who are you directing this comment to?

It wasn't a belief I once held - in fact, 'Somewhere I Belong' came before that song.

Seriously though, it comes from a whole different perspective than what you are talking about with 'multiple divinities'.

I guess you could call me a 'Monotheistic Hindu'.

Of course I worship other deities and forms...well, not so much 'worship' but humbly and respectfully acknowledge.

If it wasn't for 'Lord Ganesha' and 'Kali Ma' I wouldn't even be a 'Monotheistic Hindu' now. I mean, I only tried to be one before....but this is a very difficult concept to understand.

No, the problem is when one has narrowed it all down to 'one Almighty God' only to understand, basically and essentially that there isn't one even though you know in your heart there is.

So, who cares if there are many Gods or one God when one is stuck trying to work out if there's one God or if 'God' doesn't exist in the way we relate to anything else in this universe 'existing'? and therein lies the tale and why I posted that song..

"I tried so hard and got so far...but in the end, it doesn't even matter...I had to fall to lose it all, but in the end, it doesn't even matter..."

Here's Somewhere I Belong anyway - I am using these songs to illustrate a point (and because I am like a child with a new plaything), so I hope mods don't get too cross with me:

[youtube]gcs5PRxEXq4[/youtube]
Linkin Park - Somewhere I Belong (Official Music Video) - YouTube

Om Namah Shivay

 

[Poeticus]

Shiva does tapa for the sake of Sat; that is, a continuous effort required in remaining connected to viSva. One can alternately say, He worships Mother, and when Devi does bless Him with Her presence, then Sat is naturally attained, and then no need to do that kind of tapa: because Shiva becomes a Family Man now!

Hmm. I never thought of it like that. I have always approached my worship of Lord Shiva with a small hint of fear and admiration. Let's be honest. He is the last one anyone wants to anger...

 

[Kalicharan Tuvij]

Hmm. I never thought of it like that. I have always approached my worship of Lord Shiva with a small hint of fear and admiration. Let's be honest. He is the last one anyone wants to anger...

Fittingly, what you say is very much the approach of Veda towards Shiva/ Rudra.

 

[NobodyYouKnow]

Psssstt......not hard enough, brah. The following is where it's at:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQBNH3UFEC0

Namaste. I can (and do) go much harder than that, trust me!

I was just using Linkin Park as an example. Maybe it's all 'emo angst' but yeah, the lyrics are very powerful, potent and relevant...every single word of 'Somewhere I Belong' relates to me on a spiritual level.

Metal has become totally infused in my beliefs (after I got over the initial guilt of indulging in it).

I am not a huge Disturbed fan beyond a few songs they did, but the one that relates to my path better than all?

It's disconnection/reconnection...it's concealing/revealing...it's...

[youtube]04jfcIi4LoM[/youtube]
Disturbed - Pain Redefined - YouTube

I'll stop this now though, I think we are derailing it. lol

Om Namah Shivay

 

[Kalidas]

Namaste, who are you directing this comment to?

It wasn't a belief I once held - in fact, 'Somewhere I Belong' came before that song.

Seriously though, it comes from a whole different perspective than what you are talking about with 'multiple divinities'.

I guess you could call me a 'Monotheistic Hindu'.

Of course I worship other deities and forms...well, not so much 'worship' but humbly and respectfully acknowledge.

If it wasn't for 'Lord Ganesha' and 'Kali Ma' I wouldn't even be a 'Monotheistic Hindu' now. I mean, I only tried to be one before....but this is a very difficult concept to understand.

No, the problem is when one has narrowed it all down to 'one Almighty God' only to understand, basically and essentially that there isn't one even though you know in your heart there is.

So, who cares if there are many Gods or one God when one is stuck trying to work out if there's one God or if 'God' doesn't exist in the way we relate to anything else in this universe 'existing'? and therein lies the tale and why I posted that song..

"I tried so hard and got so far...but in the end, it doesn't even matter...I had to fall to lose it all, but in the end, it doesn't even matter..."

Here's Somewhere I Belong anyway - I am using these songs to illustrate a point (and because I am like a child with a new plaything), so I hope mods don't get too cross with me:

[youtube]gcs5PRxEXq4[/youtube]
Linkin Park - Somewhere I Belong (Official Music Video) - YouTube

Om Namah Shivay

Yeah it was to you. Sorry Wife's phone wouldn't allow me to quote anyone. See I am trying to shy away from the monotheism mainly cause I was once a Christian and that has left such a bitter taste in my mouth, I am more or less a pantheist/polytheist... what ever like you said does it really matter? I am honestly working harder on trying not to label so much or try and explain so much and just kind of letting what will be, be.

I think we are not much different in our views you and I, I don't believe in many divinities just many Gods. I like to explain it as a light hitting a prism and then a rainbow spray of colors shoot out the other end. It is all one light just different colors. Different in form,vibrancy,hue, and intensity yet in the end it is still all coming from that one original light source. They give form to the formless.

Oh you are (or were) a fan of Kali maa? I don't know why but she stuck to me and I can honestly say with her I have felt more attached with god then ever before. I remember being a Christian and so many people saying "It is a relationship" and yada yada yada. I never felt it though. The way the bible painted God I was honestly terrified of God and his "almighty wrath", not a very healthy relationship if you ask me, more like an abusive relationship. YET with Kali Maa I do not feel as if I HAVE to do anything, I just do what I want to and I just know it is pleasing to her.

Yes though in the end does it really matter? We are all just simply doing our best to try to understand something so grand and so far beyond our level of comprehension that it can not be so easily explained. That's another reason I like the "color metaphor" Color can never be known or understood, color can only ever be experienced. I feel God is much like this, one can not KNOW God, we can only EXPERIENCE God. I think I read that in one of the Upanishads.

 

[NobodyYouKnow]

Yeah it was to you. Sorry Wife's phone wouldn't allow me to quote anyone. See I am trying to shy away from the monotheism mainly cause I was once a Christian and that has left such a bitter taste in my mouth, I am more or less a pantheist/polytheist... what ever like you said does it really matter? I am honestly working harder on trying not to label so much or try and explain so much and just kind of letting what will be, be.

I think we are not much different in our views you and I, I don't believe in many divinities just many Gods. I like to explain it as a light hitting a prism and then a rainbow spray of colors shoot out the other end. It is all one light just different colors. Different in form,vibrancy,hue, and intensity yet in the end it is still all coming from that one original light source. They give form to the formless.

Oh you are (or were) a fan of Kali maa? I don't know why but she stuck to me and I can honestly say with her I have felt more attached with god then ever before. I remember being a Christian and so many people saying "It is a relationship" and yada yada yada. I never felt it though. The way the bible painted God I was honestly terrified of God and his "almighty wrath", not a very healthy relationship if you ask me, more like an abusive relationship. YET with Kali Maa I do not feel as if I HAVE to do anything, I just do what I want to and I just know it is pleasing to her.

Yes though in the end does it really matter? We are all just simply doing our best to try to understand something so grand and so far beyond our level of comprehension that it can not be so easily explained. That's another reason I like the "color metaphor" Color can never be known or understood, color can only ever be experienced. I feel God is much like this, one can not KNOW God, we can only EXPERIENCE God. I think I read that in one of the Upanishads.

Namaste. You got it!

I wasn't really so much a 'fan' of Kali Ma, more like I needed to worship Her out of necessity as part of my worship of Lord Shiva.

I could try to explain why, but ended up just worshiping God in the form of Sri Ardharnarishwar instead....much easier that way...

Like Svetaketu, I just wanted to get to the 'root of it all'. I have stopped just short of 'Thou Art That' because I 'identify' (for lack of a more appropriate word) with Lord Siva just a tad too much to fully become the whole identification...

......but in the end, it doesn't even matter.

So, I too, am just letting 'what will be, be' (as if "I" even had any say in the matter to begin with). It's like walking on the edge of a razor.

I like your 'prism analogy' and that's a good way to look at things.

AHA!! I get it...bingo...(you can tell I 'thinktype').

My school of thought and belief systems are based upon a 'reductionist philosophy'. Trying to peel away the 'layers of the onion' as it were (acknowledges Patanjali here) and forever seeking out new levels of awareness to 'uncover'...yup 'neti neti' and all that entails...trying to walk that fine line between total nihilism and theism...between solipsism and vairagya. It was only natural for me to see God as a 'single Deity' known, in the most inclusive term as any 'notion' of God can be known...as Brahman.

In my journeys, it was pointed out to me that if I did not accept Duality as part of Non-Duality and couldn't see that Brahman had 'attributes' according to Sruti...if I couldn't see that Divine Mother/Kali is holding me back out of some form of 'cosmic jealousy' and that I couldn't just 'mentally negate' illusion or I would miss Lord Shiva in the process...yeah, I'll just pray to Ardharnarishwara...easier that way.

It kinda reminded me of a story I heard years ago about a man walking around in a dark room looking for the door and every time he got to it and reached out, he sneezed and had to stop to blow his nose....but he keeps on walking...will he ever find that door and open it?

So yeah, in the end, it doesn't even matter.

Aum Namah Shivaya

 

[Poeticus]

Fittingly, what you say is very much the approach of Veda towards Shiva/ Rudra.

I wonder where the OP has gone...

 

[Kalidas]

I wonder where the OP has gone...

Judging by where this conversation has gone, probably away lol. Poor guy had no idea that asking a group Hindus would get you a million and one answers

 

[Vinayaka]

The OP wanted a couple of simple answers and got them, I think.

 

[Kalidas]

The OP wanted a couple of simple answers and got them, I think.

He got his simple answers and some complicated ones