The Torah, as dictated by God directly to Moses on Mount Sinai (not through Divine inspiration as the Prophets or other holy books were) explicitly states in Leviticus, Chapter 18, Verse 22, "You shall not lie with a man as one lies with a woman, it is an abomination." And in Leviticus, Chapter 20, Verse 13 says, "A man who lies with a man as one lies with a woman, they have both done an abomination." (I won't go on with the rest of the verse). You're religion is described as Christianity. So you believe in the Divine origin of the "Old" Testament, I'm assuming. These are God's own words! GOD said that having anal sex between two men in an "abomination." Now who knows best? We little, pesky humans who technically have no control over our lives, because God can remove us from this world anytime He sees fit, or the Almighty and Everlasting God, Creator and Sustainer of the entire Universe!? I think the latter.
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God's opposition to homosexuality. Why?
- Thread starter Skwim
- Start date
The Torah, as dictated by God directly to Moses on Mount Sinai (not through Divine inspiration as the Prophets or other holy books were) explicitly states in Leviticus, Chapter 18, Verse 22, "You shall not lie with a man as one lies with a woman, it is an abomination." And in Leviticus, Chapter 20, Verse 13 says, "A man who lies with a man as one lies with a woman, they have both done an abomination." (I won't go on with the rest of the verse). You're religion is described as Christianity. So you believe in the Divine origin of the "Old" Testament, I'm assuming. These are God's own words! GOD said that having anal sex between two men in an "abomination." Now who knows best? We little, pesky humans who technically have no control over our lives, because God can remove us from this world anytime He sees fit, or the Almighty and Everlasting God, Creator and Sustainer of the entire Universe!? I think the latter.
Jews don't do that stuff today because we're in exile from the Land of Israel for our sins. Yes, even Jews sin and God punishes us. Just like a human king who would punish his people for disobeying him. There are certain laws and practices that we can only do when a Jewish kingdom is in place, which we don't have today. We can't perform things that the outside world would view as horrible and inhumane if we don't have the ability to back up our actions through an explanation from God as to why such actions must be taken. In our limited human intelligence, these things seem barbaric. But it was GOD's law, not our law. We do believe, though, that one day a Messiah will come and unite the entire world under the Kingship of the Almighty; a time when all illness, hunger, sadness, hate, and many other bad things will be eradicated from the Earth. Everyone will recognize the truth of the existence of God, and no, all the non-Jews will NOT be destroyed and only the Jews will survive. That's NOT what will happen. Like I said in other posts, every human being has the opportunity to earn eternal reward in the World to Come. I think we are the only religion that has such a doctrine: that you do NOT have to be a Jew to earn a special place in God's Eyes. For us, once a Jew, always a Jew. At that time, EVERYTHING that ever transpired in this world will become so vividly clear to us: why bad things happened to good people and why natural disasters were allowed to happen, and we will all be able to say, with that understanding, that everything God does (and ever did) is for the good.
McBell
Unbound
Only if you set gods "standard" of fairness as "perfect".
It's not ME who's setting that standard. It's the Torah itself (which was written by God Himself) that says so. God Himself tells us that He's a perfect Judge.
averageJOE
zombie
Circular reasoning.
McBell
Unbound
And this has been addressed and or refuted in the following posts on this thread:
> #38 (Acim), followed by understanding that it is some human's interpretation as noted in #39 (Skwim)
> #68 (Warren Clark)
> #69, 2nd half of post (Acim) and #70 (Acim)
> #74 (Acim), followed up with admission that "condemnation of homosexuality isn't clear" in one of OP cited passages (Skwim) #88
> #90 (Acim)
> #136 (earlwooters), followed up by admission in #137 that the inspired passages are "interpretation of men" (Skwim)
> #153 (Many Sages One Truth), acknowledged with follow up, once again, (#154) saying, "The following are "typical interpretations by religious conservatives" . . ." (Skwim)
>> There may be more than the posts I have cited in this thread. I think there are, but not as clear cut as the above.
So back to what javajo said, "its probably more like "man's opposition to homosexuality", not God's. Perhaps many have read more of their own biased thoughts into their interpretations of certain passages."
At some point, which we've probably already arrived at, this thread's logic becomes circular, and not progressing, even a little bit. Because the central question in OP, is "why does God detest homosexuality?" And then cites passages where that detesting and/or condemnation is allegedly made known. Yet respondents in this thread (myself included) have noted that most of the passages cited in OP are not condemning homosexuality, and have explained what the passages are about, instead. The ones that are more or less clearly portraying homosexual behavior as detestable are either not explaining the why (which has already been noted in this thread) or are being elaborated upon / promoted by those humans (let's call them conservative Christians) who have a biased agenda in this matter that is not stated, clearly, in the text in question. So, it is accurate to say, as javajo did, that "many have read more of their own biased thoughts into their interpretations of certain passages."
Which I believe OP has done, on more than one occasion, on this thread. Not all passages cited in #1 are condemning homosexuality, and it is misrepresentation to suggest otherwise.
Achim, did you see my post above about the exact words of the Torah (translated into English from the Hebrew by ArtScroll's Stone Chumash) regarding homosexuality? And I also posted above that being attracted to another man is not what God forbids. It's the actual act of anal sex itself that is called, by God Himself in the Torah, an "abomination." Why? I don't have to know. All I have to know is that THAT aspect of homosexuality is "condemned" by God.
I have seen this post and these quotes have been previously brought up in this thread. As best as I can tell, these are OP's main passages that back up assertions made in post #1, along with perhaps one other passage written by Paul.
At any rate, as you have noted, and was previously noted, the 'abomination' is not explained, clearly. And as I noted earlier, the only semblance of an explanation is that the command is given by LORD God, to which those who wish to live by LORD God must follow, and/or remain obedient.
And as I've stated elsewhere (on this thread, plus other threads), I do not believe LORD God is worthy of obedience, nor worship. The core logic of LORD God is refutable and the basis for that refutation, I believe, can be found as early as Gen. 2.
Yanni, I believe that you see LORD God as worthy of worship / obedience, so while my words above may stimulate further discussion, I assume not make this thread, that place. Feel free to PM me, or set up another thread for that sort of discussion / debate. And if no debate is desired, then I say go in peace, my brother.
So it is only the anal sex part that your god has an issue with? No problems with other same-sex sexual activity? My BF and I can 69 until the cows come home without being subject to the penalties that you were too timid to quote earlier from Leviticus 20:13?
Ok, Duck. The penalty that God has for two men who commit anal sex is death. There, I said it. And no, man doesn't have to be the one to put them to death. Those penalties are carried out by God Himself. No, it doesn't have to be through some abnormal way of dying. He could very well decree that the "perpetrators" will die from cancer or something.
Another thing is that God doesn't just forbid things for His own pleasure. He wants to give us eternal reward for refraining from that which He forbids. So every moment that gay men refrain from having anal sex earns them unimaginable reward, more precious than all the diamonds and precious jewels in the world. Do you really want to take a chance and hope that God really doesn't care what we do, or do you want to wait until it may be too late?
waitasec
Veteran Member
“‘If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads
and who would perform the execution?
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waitasec
Veteran Member
:biglaugh:
maybe you should move to n korea so you can get a whopper of a deal in the after life
AmbiguousGuy
Well-Known Member
If I were a homosexual man, I wouldn't have the slightest worry that Yanni's God was going to get me.
God wants gay men to enjoy themselves. He considers it unhealthy for them to repress their natural urges. He even frowns on those who repress themselves -- especially if they avoid sex because of some belief they got from reading a book.
xkatz
Well-Known Member
An "unimaginable" reward because it doesn't exist.
nemorbln
New Member
As far as I see it - any religion that contains restrictions on sexual life does this for a reason. And this reason is that sexuality binds yourself to worldly, i.e. material desire.
So if anyone engages sexually - so the idea - that should be to reproduce. Hence homo-sexual by definition can't reproduce through sexual engagement it is condemned - because the sole point of homosexuality is sensual enjoyment. And this is - from the point of view of most of the religious teaching - not appropriate for a human being.
So if anyone engages sexually - so the idea - that should be to reproduce. Hence homo-sexual by definition can't reproduce through sexual engagement it is condemned - because the sole point of homosexuality is sensual enjoyment. And this is - from the point of view of most of the religious teaching - not appropriate for a human being.
waitasec
Veteran Member
with this OT tradition, the discrepancy however is in the double standard...
lesbians are in the clear...
btw,
welcome to the forum
“‘If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads
and who would perform the execution?
In today's world of democracy, only God has the power to carry out such a punishment. But I cannot judge who deserves death and who doesn't. Only God can judge what a gay "couple's" real intentions are. If they never knew of such a penalty, then I don't know what God will do. God judges measure for measure. But if they know of such a penalty, and they are believers in God, then I'm sure the punishment may be much worse. God has a way of dealing with atheists too. We all have free will. What we do with that free will is up to us.
And how do you know what God wants? Do you have source, like from the Bible or something? Did God tell you what he wants?