God's opposition to homosexuality. Why?

[AmbiguousGuy]

Hi, tarekabdo. I wish you would answer my earlier question. It could clear up a lot of the disagreement around here.

I say that God loves homosexuals and has no problem with homosexuality.

How do you answer me?

Why do you think you know more about the Creator's will than I do?

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

in Egypt, we also don't execute homosexuals and there are not homosexuals everywhere.

Yes, there are homosexuals everywhere in Egypt. They just have better sense than to let anyone know about their homosexuality.

 

[-Peacemaker-]

IMO, if you even a little bit (teeny tiny bit) enjoy receiving oral sex, then I actually have tough time understanding how you can't relate to the idea that same gender sex wouldn't be as good, if not better. I think average male knows male body better than average female. And average female (even below average female) knows female body better than average male (even above average male).

So, if you had blindfold on, and were looking to get your rocks off via oral sex. I bet everyone reading this, who enjoys receiving oral sex, would feel much more satisfied by someone who, let's just say, knows there way around and knows the little things to provide added stimulation.

In fact, I'll bet a dollar. Any takers? Btw, I won't be providing the oral sex, just observing the results and collecting a dollar from you after your mind blowing orgasm.

You have alot to learn about heterosexual men

 

[Acim]

You have alot to learn about heterosexual men

Disagree.

Your response is not direct to what I posted. Care to address that?

Or care to educate me with whatever you think I'm missing?

Apparently, you have me labeled one way, and I'll let you know if you think I am (only) that way, you are, how you say, ignorant.

 

[waitasec]

Disagree.

Your response is not direct to what I posted. Care to address that?

Or care to educate me with whatever you think I'm missing?

Apparently, you have me labeled one way, and I'll let you know if you think I am (only) that way, you are, how you say, ignorant.

i thought guys were more visual than girls...when it comes to sex

 

[idav]

no rule in Islam says that homosexuality's punishment is to be condemned forever, it's a great sin but it's not to be punished this way yet it still deserves a punishment. Those who are condemned forever are who refuse the truth and refuse admitting the presence of clear evidences. In addition, we were ordered not to judge people because this is something only related to God as He can easily forgive according to each person's circumstances and this is something humans can accurately determine. Simply, God can forgive anybody if He knows that he deserves forgiveness and nobody can hinder His will.

A god that condemns people for doing things they were made to do is quite unjust. No matter what the sin. Why would god give a person the mind of a serial killer and then be surprised when they kill someone. Granted we would need to stop the most heinous type of crimes which is the humans constant struggle against our own nature. Homosexuality hardly falls under heinous crimes.

 

[Acim]

i thought guys were more visual than girls...when it comes to sex

Okay, instead of the blindfold, you get to look at an image of x

x = whatever image brings Johnson to the table, for you

 

[waitasec]

Okay, instead of the blindfold, you get to look at an image of x

x = whatever image brings Johnson to the table, for you

what are we talking about again?

 

[McBell]

the problem is that you didn't ever mention during any part of the conversation a rational aspect that could be respected. All what you write are very short posts that carry no real criticism that could pose any change. Your style is arguing just for the sake of the argument and that's why I think you gained a large number of posts, no true rationale that a person can adhere to.

And I am still awaiting from you a rational argument.
Instead you present fallacy after fallacy with some propaganda, sermons, and plain old bull **** randomly thrown in.

Perhaps if you were to to actually present an argument that does not rely upon logical fallacies...

 

[waitasec]

And I am still awaiting from you a rational argument.
Instead you present fallacy after fallacy with some propaganda, sermons, and plain old bull **** randomly thrown in.

Perhaps if you were to to actually present an argument that does not rely upon logical fallacies...

that means he'd have to formulate his own argument
perish the thought

 

[McBell]

that means he'd have to formulate his own argument
perish the thought

And some members say I have no faith...

 

[Yanni]

A god that condemns people for doing things they were made to do is quite unjust. No matter what the sin. Why would god give a person the mind of a serial killer and then be surprised when they kill someone. Granted we would need to stop the most heinous type of crimes which is the humans constant struggle against our own nature. Homosexuality hardly falls under heinous crimes.

Yes, different people are born with different drives and passions and hobbies. But I don't think anyone is born with the desire to murder through being a serial killer. And about condeming, God will not condemn anybody. He will only be upset (not fuming angry) with those who had the potential to accomplish certain things in life but fell short of their potential. People like serial killers are not born that way; they become the way they are through various different means and circumstances (bad childhood, emotional disturbance, or just plain evil and hate). People do have free will, you know. Were not like robots programmed to do something a certain way when we're born. God judges people according to their potential. If someone lost one of his legs and didn't run to help an old lady cross the street, God is not going to ask him why he didn't try to help the woman. Similarly, if someone killed someone in a state of insanity, God is not going to condemn him for killing. People don't just go to hell as soon as they die. There is a lot of deliberation and "hearings," if you will, before sending someone anywhere. All a person's actions are judged with perfect fairness, and if his good deeds outweigh his bad deeds, then he will go strait to heaven. But if his bad deeds outweigh his good deeds, then he will need to spend a little time doing "community service" before he can be allowed to go to heaven. You see, a lot of people believe hell is run by the devil and once you go there, you're finished. Not so according to Orthodox Judaism. According to us, all God wants is to grant eternal reward to EVERY HUMAN BEING, no matter what race or ethnicity to religion they're a part of; He doesn't LIKE to punish (He's certainly not a sadist). But if a person is not spiritually pure enough to go straight to the reward, he must go through a little bit of cleansing. Point: hell is NOT permanent (and there is no devil running it).

 

[waitasec]

Yes, different people are born with different drives and passions and hobbies. But I don't think anyone is born with the desire to murder through being a serial killer.

oh yes there are...apathy is a reality society has to deals with from time to time...
some are born without the capacity to understand and share the feelings others have...this seems to be a dilemma for you to solve.

 

[Yanni]

oh yes there are...apathy is a reality society has to deals with from time to time...
some are born without the capacity to understand and share the feelings others have...this seems to be a dilemma for you to solve.

But that's not the way God made them. It is usually the result of something that happened to them during their natal period (either prenatally, perinatally, or postnatally). Their actions and personality cannot be attributed to God.

 

[waitasec]

But that's not the way God made them. It is usually the result of something that happened to them during their natal period (either prenatally, perinatally, or postnatally). Their actions and personality cannot be attributed to God.

so explain to me, why would god create a system that would allow these things to happen?

 

[Yanni]

so explain to me, why would god create a system that would allow these things to happen?

I don't know and I don't have to know.

 

[idav]

But that's not the way God made them. It is usually the result of something that happened to them during their natal period (either prenatally, perinatally, or postnatally). Their actions and personality cannot be attributed to God.

The underlying causes of genetic abnormalities are not always known but it is clear that our brain chemistry give us predispositions for acting certain ways. Sometimes it goes even further than brain like physically being both genders. Also the whole sins of the father thing doesn't sound very fair either.

 

[waitasec]

I don't know and I don't have to know.

are you saying you are capable of dismissing a double standard without question?

 

[idea]

can anyone explain why ... Is it just some eeeeew factor, or does it go deeper than this?

It does go deeper. As a Christian I can say that there are many things which God asks which I do not understand the "why" behind - lots of illogical stuff:

like - commanding someone to get water out of a rock
why did God tell Moses to get water out of a rock? why not let him get it out of a stream? or tell him to dig a well? why tell him to do some illogical thing?

it was a demonstration of faith/trust...

Moses did not have enough faith btw - instead of speaking to the rock, he hit it with a rod in a sarcastic gesture, which kept him from ever seeing the promised land...

(Old Testament | Numbers 20:8 - 12)
8 Take the rod, and gather thou the assembly together, thou, and Aaron thy brother, and speak ye unto the rock before their eyes; and it shall give forth his water, and thou shalt bring forth to them water out of the rock: so thou shalt give the congregation and their beasts drink.
9 And Moses took the rod from before the LORD, as he commanded him.
10 And Moses and Aaron gathered the congregation together before the rock, and he said unto them, Hear now, ye rebels; must we fetch you water out of this rock?
11 And Moses lifted up his hand, and with his rod he smote the rock twice: and the water came out abundantly, and the congregation drank, and their beasts also.
12 And the LORD spake unto Moses and Aaron, Because ye believed me not, to sanctify me in the eyes of the children of Israel, therefore ye shall not bring this congregation into the land which I have given them.


trust/faith is the foundation of intimate relationships - if you cannot trust someone, then??? Trust involves doing things which are illogical - if it is just agreeing with someone and following your own combined logic, that is not trust - and it does not solidify relationships. (do you have an intimate relationship with your physics teacher because you agree that F=ma?)

What is logical to one person might be illogical to the next, but everyone will have their "Abrahamic sacrifice" moment (you know, Abraham sacrificing Isaac) when we decide what we are willing to put on the alter - illogical as it is - it is necessary to demonstrate faith/trust and the gateway through which we enter into a relationship which has faith/trust in it.

The falling backwards and letting someone catch you type of exercise... only there is a higher risk than just falling backwards, and a stronger trust - and stronger relationship created at the outset of it.

 

[idea]

Originally Posted by Yanni
I don't know and I don't have to know.

are you saying you are capable of dismissing a double standard without question?

I agree, that with things which come from God - "I don't know and I don't have to know." because the point of it is creating trust/faith more than anything else.

I questioned God's existence - once He was made manifest to me, I questioned his character/ethics - once I ascertained that He is indeed a being of light and love, I still question, but if I do not understand why, I try to trust and have faith. I do not trust / have faith in anything, nor do I expect everyone else to have the same trust/faith that I have in the same things that I have it in... at some point though, it is good to find something to trust in, because without a deep faith/trust, you cannot have the relationship which follows from having that kind of trust...