God's opposition to homosexuality. Why?

[James Humphreys]

Then is "morality" or free will/behavior beyond God?

I'm not sure what you mean. Would you mind explaining a little more? I think we do have free will, which God will not supersede or overrule in order to take a short cut to the kind of world he wants to see. But that free will is in present circumstances bound within certain limitations that prevent us from really thinking, feeling and acting freely in the true sense.

 

[waitasec]

I'm not sure what you mean. Would you mind explaining a little more? I think we do have free will, which God will not supersede or overrule in order to take a short cut to the kind of world he wants to see.

because he can't... which renders god as impotent.

But that free will is in present circumstances bound within certain limitations that prevent us from really thinking, feeling and acting freely in the true sense.

true...we have no choice but to have free will.

 

[Acim]

Those have to be 2 of the most back assward assertions I've ever heard.

 

[Evandr]

The following are "typical interpretations by religious conservatives" as presented by Religioustolerance.org.

Genesis 19 Condemns all same-sex sexual behavior, whether by two men, two women, within a loving committed relationship or a "one-night stand."

Leviticus 18:22 Condemns all same-sex sexual behavior.

Leviticus 20:13 Condemns all same-sex sexual behavior.

Romans 1:26-27 Condemns all homosexual behavior as unnatural.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 Sexually active homosexuals will go to Hell, not Heaven, at death. Once truly saved, homosexuals will become heterosexuals.

1 Timothy 1:9-10 Condemns all same-sex sexual behavior.

Jude 1:7 Sexually active homosexuals will go to Hell, not Heaven, at death.
source

​

If one accepts the passages cited as those inspired of god, and their interpretation in accordance with conservative Christian understanding, can anyone explain why the Christian god finds homosexuality "detestable" and worthy of "punishment of eternal fire"?

I know I'm asking people here to second guess god and his reasoning, but because so many Christians are keen to speak for him on numerous issues I figure some here would have a good insight into his thinking. So, Just what is it about showing sexual affection toward someone of the same sex that turns off god? Is it just some eeeeew factor, or does it go deeper than this?

As man is God once was, as God is man may become. The only real goal in existence is one of eternal increase and the only way that can happen is through the propagation of the family and, in the eternities, that can only happen by the coming together of a man and a woman to create offspring just as our Heavenly Father has (we most assuradly have a Heavenly Mother).

To live in the presence of God and have eternal increase is called exaltation and is the goal that God has for all his children but justice demands that we must do our part. Anything that stands in the way of exaltation in the celestial realms of God is called sin and homosexuality most certainly stands in the way of that goal. Such failure to achieve that supernal goal will cause mental anguish that will last for eternity as such are stopped (damned) from any eternal progress because of the limitations a person puts on themselves, in other words such a person will have no one to blame but themselves for becoming a person that cannot abide eternal increase and therefore must find themselves short of the goal, a sad and eternal state indeed. How much they love their same sex partner is not relevant to the faxct that they chose a path that has an eternal end to growth.

It is not about the love a man or woman may have toward their own gender, it is about the consequences of failure to align oneself with the requirements for eternal increase. And please, avoid falling back on that old and tired excuse that a person is born that way and has no choice because our choices began long before mortality and if we are born with homosexual tendencies you can be sure that in pre-mortality the choice was made and the consequences ignored.

 

[crocusj]

Response to Crocusj

First of all, exponential population growth is a modern phenomena born out of the industrial revolution via cheap and widespread access to food and medical care. I truly think you missed my main point.

The proportion of homosexuals in any population will always be a constant, only laws governing its practice change and as such will have little effect on population growth (unless combined with a forced breeding programme which I did not see you suggest) Those that have the power (and in this case probably the majority support) see things they don't like and ban them for that reason. A man can father children well into his dotage and to suggest the laws were implemented through a fear of population decline is just made up. Unless, of course, you are saying that without the law that every man was going to turn homosexual.

Why do you say it is not true? Explain yourself. I'm not quoting this from the bible either, I'm observing this in nature herself. Do you see homosexual couples in nature?

Because it's not true. At least 1500 different animals practice homosexual behaviour for one reason or another, some even couple permanently, some are bisexual. Of course, bacteria reproduce asexually as can many plants and as such is not, as you say, necessarily "the natural order of life"

Why are you so afraid of homosexuals? As a heterosexual I do not harbor any animosity towards them, and I certainly do not fear them. Maybe you have some deeper issues than you think..

I'm not afraid of homosexuals, I am afraid of having to become one to fulfill your particular armageddon...unless you think that everybody is not actually going to turn, in which case why mention it, it has no relevance. If everybody cuts off their legs we will all just be bumming around but that is as likely as your own scenario and just as pointless a statement.

Exactly.. your intellect is not capable of seeing the difference

.

Well, that's a bit harsh but ho hum...Anyway, since I still cannot see the difference please enlighten me; if the consequences are evil (although only you and not I see consequences at all) how is the perpetrator not evil? This could only be the case if homosexuality were a choice and not natural.

 

[Evandr]

Everyone talks about homosexuality as being "natural" - If that is so why is it only natural to hopmosapiens? Why do we not see other animals who are known for pair bonding pairing up with others of their own gender? Even those who are not known for pair bonding will seek out the opposite sex. Males in everty other species on earth (I do not know of any exceptions) will often fight and sometimes die trying to be the sire to the female population and those who loose out do not turn to each other, they go off and live a life of lone solitude. I submit that homosexuality is the most unnatural tendency that can be socially displayed and sought after.

 

[Acim]

Everyone talks about homosexuality as being "natural" - If that is so why is it only natural to hopmosapiens?

Prepare to be updated. I'm sure someone else here will let you know humans are not only species to engage in same gender sexual practices.

 

[idav]

Prepare to be updated. I'm sure someone else here will let you know humans are not only species to engage in same gender sexual practices.

Not to be grotesque but I'm sure animals would stick 'it' in any oriphis that fit. All completely natural I'm sure.

 

[Evandr]

Not to be grotesque but I'm sure animals would stick 'it' in any oriphis that fit. All completely natural I'm sure.

No...They will not.

Domesticated male animals will demonstrate odd behavior on your leg or even a different animal but put five other males and one female in the same room with it and that odd acting dog will seek out and go for the female every time, as will any other animal. In the animal kingdom demonstrating odd behavior because of intense sexual drive is not the same as showing a preference for like gender gratification; Sexuality is a two-way Street, each partner is giving and receiving at the same time and only a human being will intentionally seek gratification by the physical properties of someone of their own gender.

Nature and the natural order always wins out in every species except for human beings; when given a choice a male animal will always choose a female to copulate with even if there are many other males around her. To the best of my knowledge nowhere in the animal kingdom will you find two animals of the same sex pair bonding, it is not natural and never will be. Even the chemistry of the body has been designed to attract and excite the opposite sex.

It is the ultimate goal and sole intent of Lucifer to cause one to be as miserable as he is by enticing them down a path that will make them unworthy of exaltation in the presence of God (He has no other goal) and the proliferation of homosexuality is one sure and powerful way to accomplish it; his influence and effort is directed solely on the sons and daughter of God and, unfortunately, many have fallen into that trap; he has no interest, or ability for that matter, to entice a dog to become homosexual, it would be a waste of his time and effort even if he could do it.

One of the many reasons for my opposition to homosexuality is as much to keep others, particularly innocent children who are so easily swayed by the environment in which they grow, from being unwittingly drawn into that deadly snare as it is to try to convince others to turn away from it.

Some will claim that they would rather spend eternity with their gay companion outside the presence of God but I firmly believe that that is not true; I believe that, when faced with the stark reality of their eternal shortcomings, two people will spend eternity blaming each other for their own failure; animosity for the perceived actions of others (someone to blame) has destroyed many a relationship that started out on the best and most tender of terms, gay and straight alike. I seriously doubt if any relationship can withstand the torments associated with failure to achieve exaltation in the Celestial presence of God for all eternity, all such relationships will have a quick and decisive end.

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

... only a human being will intentionally seek gratification by the physical properties of someone of their own gender.

Hi, Evandr. I can't tell if you are serious, so let me ask: Do you disagree with all the scientific evidence for homosexuality in animals, or do you just not know about it?

Google "homosexuality in animals"

 

[Evandr]

[/font][/color]

Hi, Evandr. I can't tell if you are serious, so let me ask: Do you disagree with all the scientific evidence for homosexuality in animals, or do you just not know about it?

Google "homosexuality in animals"

I do understand what you are pointing out – I did not make myself clear; animals will exhibit homosexual "behavior" but it is also true that, according to an article in wikipedia - "Although homosexual behavior is very common in the animal world, it seems to be very uncommon that individual animals have a long-lasting predisposition to engage in such behavior to the exclusion of heterosexual activities. Thus, a homosexual orientation, if one can speak of such thing in animals, seems to be a rarity."

There is a difference between behavior and orientation. The instinct for self gratification may manifest itself in a diverse number of ways but in the end it is pure instinct that is driving the animal to seek out copulation with the opposite sex even though the concept of “opposite sex” may confuse the animal, it will simply keep trying until it gets it right so what I said in my previous post still stands.

Humans are not limited by instinct and the lack of cognitive thought processes. A dog may climb upon your leg but that does not mean that the dog loves your leg, it is just acting on an impulse that lacks intelligent thought, as apparently do a number of species, however, that does not make it normal or natural, it just indicates a lack of a superior cognitive decision making process and the ability to reason; humans have no such limitations.

Homosexuals claim the inability to choose, I still believe that, for the most part, this is not true and that although such tendencies may have their roots in pre-mortality the consequences are still the same.

Homosexuality cannot promote the species and therefore is an ungodly and unwise choice of orientation. If one truly cannot choose the correct path and orientation as our creator has indicated it must be then the same is demonstrating a lack of that which is necessary for eternal progression; eternal progression is the driving force behind every commandment we are given. Justifying un-natural cognitive action and orientation by pointing to the actions of dogs and worms is an attempt to place oneself on their level. Dogs and worms will never wield the power of God and neither will those who justify the practice of homosexuality.

It is our goal to become exalted in the presence of God and have everything He has. If we are to do so we must be like Him and He has made it very clear that we are not as the animals, we are His sons and daughters and homosexuality is not an attribute of one who will be given the power of God.

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

Thus, a homosexual orientation, if one can speak of such thing in animals, seems to be a rarity.

It’s a rarity among humans, too. I wasn’t claiming otherwise. I was just pointing out that it exists among animals as among humans.

Humans are not limited by instinct and the lack of cognitive thought processes. A dog may climb upon your leg but that does not mean that the dog loves your leg

I have to say I’m a bit confused by that statement. Are you thinking that heterosexual sex (or any type of sex) has a necessary correlation with ‘love’?

it is just acting on an impulse that lacks intelligent thought, as apparently do a number of species, however, that does not make it normal or natural, it just indicates a lack of a superior cognitive decision making process and the ability to reason; humans have no such limitations.

I’m still lost. The dog would not hump our legs if only it could reason?

Homosexuals claim the inability to choose, I still believe that, for the most part, this is not true....

But why would you believe it untrue without having experienced it? For myself, I have known enough gay men and read enough about their lives to have concluded that they most probably have no choice in sexual orientation.

... and that although such tendencies may have their roots in pre-mortality the consequences are still the same.

Pre-mortality? I’m sorry but I really can’t follow most of what you are saying.

Even if I read it as ‘pre-morality’, I’m still completely lost. What is pre-morality?

Homosexuality cannot promote the species and therefore is an ungodly and unwise choice of orientation.

Nonsense. In the first place, why would I think that you know more about God and what He wants than I do?

In the second place, if you think homosexuality is a hindrance to fecundity, why is the human population rocketing upward at the same time as homosexuality is being more and more accepted? Your claim is false on its face, isn’t it?

God is fine with homosexuality. I really do think you should stop worrying about that.

If one truly cannot choose the correct path and orientation as our creator has indicated it must be then the same is demonstrating a lack of that which is necessary for eternal progression; eternal progression is the driving force behind every commandment we are given

I’m sorry. I still can’t follow you. As best I can make it out, you seem to think that you know something about God which others don’t know. What ‘commandments’ are you talking about? Commandments from God? What commandments?

Justifying un-natural cognitive action and orientation by pointing to the actions of dogs and worms is an attempt to place oneself on their level. Dogs and worms will never wield the power of God and neither will those who justify the practice of homosexuality.

Umm... wield the power of God? That’s a Mormon doctrine, isn’t it? But I’m not Mormon. Why should I accept the Mormon concept of God over my own conception?

More importantly, why should homosexuals take your word that God disapproves of them?

It is our goal to become exalted in the presence of God and have everything He has

That may be your goal. It certainly isn’t mine. I’m not Mormon.

You want to have everything that God has? That seems pretty strange to me. It certainly has nothing to do with the God of my conception.

If we are to do so we must be like Him and He has made it very clear that we are not as the animals, we are His sons and daughters and homosexuality is not an attribute of one who will be given the power of God

If you would like to know about God and what He actually wants of us, you are welcome to ask me any question you like.

God certainly has no problem with human homosexuality.

 

[Many Sages One Truth]

The following are "typical interpretations by religious conservatives" as presented by Religioustolerance.org.

Genesis 19 Condemns all same-sex sexual behavior, whether by two men, two women, within a loving committed relationship or a "one-night stand."

Leviticus 18:22 Condemns all same-sex sexual behavior.

Leviticus 20:13 Condemns all same-sex sexual behavior.

Romans 1:26-27 Condemns all homosexual behavior as unnatural.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 Sexually active homosexuals will go to Hell, not Heaven, at death. Once truly saved, homosexuals will become heterosexuals.

1 Timothy 1:9-10 Condemns all same-sex sexual behavior.

Jude 1:7 Sexually active homosexuals will go to Hell, not Heaven, at death.​

I think if you read some good books by progressive Christian scholars about what the Bible says about homosexuality you'd get a different outlook.

Leviticus probably isn't condemning homosexuality as we know it in the modern context, love and commited relationships between two of the same sex. Many Rabbis actually contest that this is about obscure Pagan rituals involving homosexuality.

Genesis is not about homosexuality in the story of Sodom, but about gang violence, rape, and as Ezekiel said, inhospitality. Lot is presented as the one who offers good hospitality while the people of Sodom mistreat his guests. This is what Ezekiel says Sodom's sin actually was. Fullness of bread and neglect of the poor and needy.

Romans is about an obscure Pagan ritual again, and not about homosexuality in general, because most of the chapter is about idolotry. Example: They changed the creature into the creator, etc., therefore god handed them over- etc. This can't be talking about homosexuals that love and honor God.

1 Corinthians 6 is about male shrine prostitutes and not about homosexuality. The greek word Malakoi has several meanings, including one who engages in pedestry and a male prostitute. Some versions render it- homosexual offenders or male prostitutes for that reason.

1 Timothy, I'm not too concerned about, since scholars say Paul didn't write either of the epistles to Timothy. They are psudo-Pauline, hence in my eyes, secondary as concerns doctrine.

Jude, it doesn't clarify what it means by "strange flesh", but supposing it is about homosexuality, I still wouldn't take it as a rule of faith, but as Jude's personal understanding. We see that in Ezekiel's time the sin of Sodom was not seen as homosexuality,and that this view must have evolved over time. The Bible was still written by men of it's time.
​

 

[Skwim]

As man is God once was, as God is man may become. The only real goal in existence is one of eternal increase and the only way that can happen is through the propagation of the family and, in the eternities, that can only happen by the coming together of a man and a woman to create offspring just as our Heavenly Father has (we most assuradly have a Heavenly Mother).

To live in the presence of God and have eternal increase is called exaltation and is the goal that God has for all his children but justice demands that we must do our part. Anything that stands in the way of exaltation in the celestial realms of God is called sin and homosexuality most certainly stands in the way of that goal. Such failure to achieve that supernal goal will cause mental anguish that will last for eternity as such are stopped (damned) from any eternal progress because of the limitations a person puts on themselves, in other words such a person will have no one to blame but themselves for becoming a person that cannot abide eternal increase and therefore must find themselves short of the goal, a sad and eternal state indeed. How much they love their same sex partner is not relevant to the faxct that they chose a path that has an eternal end to growth.

It is not about the love a man or woman may have toward their own gender, it is about the consequences of failure to align oneself with the requirements for eternal increase. And please, avoid falling back on that old and tired excuse that a person is born that way and has no choice because our choices began long before mortality and if we are born with homosexual tendencies you can be sure that in pre-mortality the choice was made and the consequences ignored.

Interesting. Thanks for your input.

I do understand what you are pointing out – I did not make myself clear; animals will exhibit homosexual "behavior" but it is also true that, according to an article in wikipedia - "Although homosexual behavior is very common in the animal world, it seems to be very uncommon that individual animals have a long-lasting predisposition to engage in such behavior to the exclusion of heterosexual activities. Thus, a homosexual orientation, if one can speak of such thing in animals, seems to be a rarity."

But it's the homosexual behavior, not any emotional affection toward those of the same sex, that Christians claim god is speaking against.

I think if you read some good books by progressive Christian scholars about what the Bible says about homosexuality you'd get a different outlook.

No doubt I would, which is why I said,

The following are "typical interpretations by religious conservatives" . . .

. . . If one accepts the passages cited as those inspired of god, and their interpretation in accordance with conservative Christian understanding, can anyone explain why the Christian god finds homosexuality "detestable" and worthy of "punishment of eternal fire"?

 

[idav]

I do understand what you are pointing out – I did not make myself clear; animals will exhibit homosexual "behavior" but it is also true that, according to an article in wikipedia - "Although homosexual behavior is very common in the animal world, it seems to be very uncommon that individual animals have a long-lasting predisposition to engage in such behavior to the exclusion of heterosexual activities. Thus, a homosexual orientation, if one can speak of such thing in animals, seems to be a rarity."

There is a difference between behavior and orientation. The instinct for self gratification may manifest itself in a diverse number of ways but in the end it is pure instinct that is driving the animal to seek out copulation with the opposite sex even though the concept of “opposite sex” may confuse the animal, it will simply keep trying until it gets it right so what I said in my previous post still stands.

Humans are not limited by instinct and the lack of cognitive thought processes. A dog may climb upon your leg but that does not mean that the dog loves your leg, it is just acting on an impulse that lacks intelligent thought, as apparently do a number of species, however, that does not make it normal or natural, it just indicates a lack of a superior cognitive decision making process and the ability to reason; humans have no such limitations.

Homosexuals claim the inability to choose, I still believe that, for the most part, this is not true and that although such tendencies may have their roots in pre-mortality the consequences are still the same.

Homosexuality cannot promote the species and therefore is an ungodly and unwise choice of orientation. If one truly cannot choose the correct path and orientation as our creator has indicated it must be then the same is demonstrating a lack of that which is necessary for eternal progression; eternal progression is the driving force behind every commandment we are given. Justifying un-natural cognitive action and orientation by pointing to the actions of dogs and worms is an attempt to place oneself on their level. Dogs and worms will never wield the power of God and neither will those who justify the practice of homosexuality.

It is our goal to become exalted in the presence of God and have everything He has. If we are to do so we must be like Him and He has made it very clear that we are not as the animals, we are His sons and daughters and homosexuality is not an attribute of one who will be given the power of God.

I notice that it said it is a "rarity" in other animals. Well its rare in humans also. Also there is indications that the homosexual mind of a male closely resembles the anatomy of a female mind. Also there is much debate on whether humans have the pheromones as animals which would help solidify this so called predisposition for the opposite sex. All in all I would say that human biology has a lot working against us if god wants us to all be hetero and go by our "true" instinct which humans aren't generally very in tune with anyway.

 

[James Humphreys]

As man is God once was, as God is man may become. The only real goal in existence is one of eternal increase and the only way that can happen is through the propagation of the family and, in the eternities, that can only happen by the coming together of a man and a woman to create offspring just as our Heavenly Father has (we most assuradly have a Heavenly Mother).

I think this post touches on a point that most discussions largely ignore. I know not all agree, but many religious people believe that we are composed of both a spirit and a body. For many, when your physical body dies you continue on in a spiritual body in some kind of spiritual life (hopefully happy). Those who have experienced this, either through near death experiences or through some kind of spiritual encounter (eg:Jesus meeting Moses and Elijah on a mountain in spirit) say that one retains the same appearance, personality and gender that one had while alive physically. If you are a man, you are one eternally, and if you are a woman, likewise. If so, it is natural that attraction between opposite sexes would continue on in the spiritual realm, and I agree that sexual relations are possible there. This is not for the biological reason of reproduction, but for the coming into oneness of the two essences that reflect the masculinity and femininity of God.

I know this is not the topic of this thread, but if these things are true, it would, I believe, give serious cause for reconsideration for those who undergo sex change operations. For you can change all the biological parts you want and tinker with your hormones, but spiritually, if you are a man, you remain a man, and vice-versa. Secondly, it would probably require a rethinking by those who endorse homosexuality as being natural. Because I think that most of the arguments for why homosexuality is normal focus on its biological reasons and causes. It perhaps might be more difficult to find the reason why God would create someone to be spiritually for eternity a man or woman, yet would choose to have that person have an irreversible desire for those of the same sex for eternity as well. Any opinions?

 

[WorldCitizen]

I think this post touches on a point that most discussions largely ignore. I know not all agree, but many religious people believe that we are composed of both a spirit and a body. For many, when your physical body dies you continue on in a spiritual body in some kind of spiritual life (hopefully happy). Those who have experienced this, either through near death experiences or through some kind of spiritual encounter (eg:Jesus meeting Moses and Elijah on a mountain in spirit) say that one retains the same appearance, personality and gender that one had while alive physically. If you are a man, you are one eternally, and if you are a woman, likewise. If so, it is natural that attraction between opposite sexes would continue on in the spiritual realm, and I agree that sexual relations are possible there. This is not for the biological reason of reproduction, but for the coming into oneness of the two essences that reflect the masculinity and femininity of God.

I know this is not the topic of this thread, but if these things are true, it would, I believe, give serious cause for reconsideration for those who undergo sex change operations. For you can change all the biological parts you want and tinker with your hormones, but spiritually, if you are a man, you remain a man, and vice-versa. Secondly, it would probably require a rethinking by those who endorse homosexuality as being natural. Because I think that most of the arguments for why homosexuality is normal focus on its biological reasons and causes. It perhaps might be more difficult to find the reason why God would create someone to be spiritually for eternity a man or woman, yet would choose to have that person have an irreversible desire for those of the same sex for eternity as well. Any opinions?

Amazingly said.

"From the pairing of even the smallest particles in the world of being are the grace and bounty of God made manifest; and the higher the degree, the more momentous is the union ... and above all other unions is that between human beings, .... Thus is the primal oneness made to appear."

Baha'i Writings

 

[Warren Clark]

I'm not sure what you mean. Would you mind explaining a little more? I think we do have free will, which God will not supersede or overrule in order to take a short cut to the kind of world he wants to see. But that free will is in present circumstances bound within certain limitations that prevent us from really thinking, feeling and acting freely in the true sense.

Is "morality" beyond God?
Is God subject to good and evil?
Or is good and evil subject to God? As in "God" declares what is moral?
If so then who is to say what is right and wrong?
Unless you personally can speak to God, in which case you would be declared insane.

because he can't... which renders god as impotent.

If God cannot do this and it does infact render him impotent, then he isn't near as almighty as they claim he is.

true...we have no choice but to have free will.

Oh the irony.
Its like conforming to the rebels.

 

[Duck]

sexual intercourse is only permissible within the arrangement of marriage. Unmarried people were not permitted to have sex at all. That was punishable by death. This shows that Gods view is that sex is only allowed within that context.

the bible doesnt have to spell it out because it is very clear in detailing what is acceptable to God and what is not.

If a man deliberately spilled his semen on the ground rather then give it to the womb, he was punished with death. The case of Onis shows that it was not acceptable to prevent the semen from performing its intended use. Because he did not give his semen to his sister-in-law (whose husband had died), he was executed.

Actually, if I recall correctly, sex outside of marriage was only punishable by death for the woman (in case of rape in town) if she was betrothed or married. If she was unmarried, her rapist was "punished" by being forced to marry her, and pay a fine to her father. It has been a while since I looked up these particular OT verses so I may have misremembered. Wasn't Onis punished because he disobeyed the Law, which required that the younger brother impregnate his elder's wife if the elder brother died without issue? So in this case the argument can be made (fairly strongly I think) that the problem wasn't so much that he pulled out, but that he disobeyed the tribal (aka God's) Law regarding proper succession -- the property was supposed to go to the oldest brother, or his sons; in the case that the older brother died without issue (i.e. male children) the younger brother was to marry the wife and her children by the younger brother would be considered the children of the older (now deceased brother). A lot of focus is put, particularly by conservative religious folks, the fact that Onis "spilled his seed" (aka pulled out, masturbated, etc.) vice the fact that the actual problem was his deliberate disobedience of God and his violation of tribal Law due to his desire that his children by his wives inherit his father's property.

 

[LuisDantas]

I think this post touches on a point that most discussions largely ignore. I know not all agree, but many religious people believe that we are composed of both a spirit and a body. For many, when your physical body dies you continue on in a spiritual body in some kind of spiritual life (hopefully happy). Those who have experienced this, either through near death experiences or through some kind of spiritual encounter (eg:Jesus meeting Moses and Elijah on a mountain in spirit) say that one retains the same appearance, personality and gender that one had while alive physically. If you are a man, you are one eternally, and if you are a woman, likewise. If so, it is natural that attraction between opposite sexes would continue on in the spiritual realm, and I agree that sexual relations are possible there. This is not for the biological reason of reproduction, but for the coming into oneness of the two essences that reflect the masculinity and femininity of God.

I know this is not the topic of this thread, but if these things are true, it would, I believe, give serious cause for reconsideration for those who undergo sex change operations. For you can change all the biological parts you want and tinker with your hormones, but spiritually, if you are a man, you remain a man, and vice-versa. Secondly, it would probably require a rethinking by those who endorse homosexuality as being natural. Because I think that most of the arguments for why homosexuality is normal focus on its biological reasons and causes. It perhaps might be more difficult to find the reason why God would create someone to be spiritually for eternity a man or woman, yet would choose to have that person have an irreversible desire for those of the same sex for eternity as well. Any opinions?

This looks like a fine argument against the accuracy of the model itself, since we know from observing reality that people are indeed in need of sex change operations and homoafetivity.

The model you propose questions the existence of those situations. We know they exist. Therefore, the model is faulty.