Good "Islam = Religion of Peace" Debate

[loverofhumanity]

And yet, doesn't...



But how many religions really put the unity of the human race and fostering the spirit of love and fellowship amongst men centre-stage? Not that many, I'd say. That may be an aspect of some religions, but I'm not sure it's their fundamental purpose. Worship of God, Goddess, gods, goddesses is often a more prominent theme. Or seeking knowledge. Or detachment from the world. Or avoiding sin. As a Muslim I can tell you for a fact that service of The God/dess for me trumps the unity of the human race every time. What does that make me in your eyes?

We were all created to know and to worship God and to share in His wonderful gifts.

But as the world has been technologically brought together we need to learn to get along with each other for our own survival as war and conflict in an atomic age is no longer in our interest, so unity amongst us has become more important in this age than in any other.

 

[icehorse]

Hi Icehorse,

We Baha'is refer to the interpretations of Baha'u'llah in His Book of Certitude but also this is how we are told to study the Quran which I have done.....

It is certainly most difficult to thoroughly grasp all the Surihs of the Qur'án, as it requires a detailed knowledge of the social, religious and historical background of Arabia at the time of the appearance of the Prophet. The believers can not possibly hope, therefore, to understand the Surihs after the first or even second or third reading. They have to study them again and again, ponder over their meaning, with the help of certain commentaries and explanatory notes as found, for instance, in the admirable translation made by SALE, endeavor to acquire as clear and correct understanding of their meaning and import as possible. This is naturally a slow process, but future generations of believers will certainly come to grasp it. (Baha'i Writings)

So a cynical person could say that the believer can shape the meaning of the scripture to his will?

 

[loverofhumanity]

So a cynical person could say that the believer can shape the meaning of the scripture to his will?

Not really if they know the true facts.

We are each allowed to read and understand differently but our individual understandings can never be authoritative or used officially. All they can ever be is personal opinion.

Officially we have authoritative interpretations of the Quran and Bible based on various Writings of Baha'u'llah, His appointed Interpreter and Son Abdul-Baha and His grandson Shoghi Effendi. Only Their interpretations are considered infallible, free from error and authoritative.

So when I receive questions I search first for the infallible, authoritative answers which I know are fully accurate. Religions have fallen into sects and wars over interpretations. We are not permitted to interpret so there is both consensus and agreement in the Baha'i Communjty worldwide.

Thus we can be busy trying to make a better world instead of useless in fighting.

 

[icehorse]

Officially we have authoritative interpretations of the Quran and Bible based on various Writings of Baha'u'llah, His appointed Interpreter and Son Abdul-Baha and His grandson Shoghi Effendi. Only Their interpretations are considered infallible, free from error and authoritative

Ok cool. So if I were to read these "authoritative interpretations", and given that I'm an anti-theist, do you think I would understand these interpretations the same way that you do? Or would I need a religious man from your camp to explain them?

 

[loverofhumanity]

Ok cool. So if I were to read these "authoritative interpretations", and given that I'm an anti-theist, do you think I would understand these interpretations the same way that you do? Or would I need a religious man from your camp to explain them?

We don't have priests or clergy. You just read for yourself and use your own mind that's all.

Yes you would likely find them very refreshing compared to what has been taught to people over the centuries .

 

[icehorse]

We don't have priests or clergy. You just read for yourself and use your own mind that's all.

Yes you would likely find them very refreshing compared to what has been taught to people over the centuries .

Can you point me to a good intro document or summary?

 

[loverofhumanity]

Can you point me to a good intro document or summary?

Yes. Sure.

Firstly, this is by a non Baha'i source and even Baha'is recommend this Book which has beautiful pictures and themes you can just flip through and stop and look at points that interest you. I found it fascinating and I just luckily came across a PDF form of it.

http://bahai-library.com/pdf/h/hartz_bahai_faith.pdf

This is the official website of the Baha'i Faith and is a basic introduction.

http://www.bahai.org

At the bottom of the page is a link to the Baha'i Reference Library where you can find the deeper literature etc

 

[psychoslice]

Good "Islam = Religion of Peace" Debate, I have to say here that there is no religion that is peaceful, they all go against each other, believing they have the truth, how sick is that ?.

 

[loverofhumanity]

This is worth a million likes.

 

[LuisDantas]

Good "Islam = Religion of Peace" Debate, I have to say here that there is no religion that is peaceful, they all go against each other, believing they have the truth, how sick is that ?.

Hi, Psychoslice.

May I respectfully ask you to consider that you may be painting with an unfairly broad brush?

You may be understanding "religion" to mean something significantly different from other people's understandings of the word.

Disagreements of doctrine do not have to be active opposition (and often are not).

And whatever is meant by "belief in having the truth" - well, people can and often do rise above being too tangled with that. It is important to acknowledge and encourage that.

In short, people do not have to be unreasonable. And not all conceptions of religion separate religion itself from that very fortunate fact.

 

[paarsurrey]

I'm starting to think that any religion can be a religion of violence or a religion of peace, depending on the mentality of the individual. So, for many, Islam IS a religion of peace, for many, it isn't. If you look at who represents the latter, they probably would take ANY religion and turn it into a tool for destruction, just like they have taken Islam.

And for that matter any other "irreligion" like the Atheism behaved under Communism in Russia. Right? Please
But Islam has been peaceful all along, only those "Extremist" are violent who don't follow teachings of Islam/Quran/Muhammad and do politics under the name of Islam, they are not true representatives of Islam/Quran/Muhammad, never.
Regards

 

[psychoslice]

Hi, Psychoslice.

May I respectfully ask you to consider that you may be painting with an unfairly broad brush?

You may be understanding "religion" to mean something significantly different from other people's understandings of the word.

Disagreements of doctrine do not have to be active opposition (and often are not).

And whatever is meant by "belief in having the truth" - well, people can and often do rise above being too tangled with that. It is important to acknowledge and encourage that.

In short, people do not have to be unreasonable. And not all conceptions of religion separate religion itself from that very fortunate fact.

True, and I feel that these religions that are not in my brush strokes, will know what I am saying without a hint of confusion to what I am trying to say.

 

[LuisDantas]

I wish I could agree.

 

[LuisDantas]

And for that matter any other "irreligion" like the Atheism behaved under Communism in Russia. Right? Please

Hardly.

But Islam has been peaceful all along, only those "Extremist" are violent who don't follow teachings of Islam/Quran/Muhammad and do politics under the name of Islam, they are not true representatives of Islam/Quran/Muhammad, never.
Regards

Except that they have very consistently turned up during pretty much the whole history of Islam, that is.

It seems that you either don't realize or don't want to admit how dangerous it is for people to believe that they are acting on God's behalf.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

We were all created to know and to worship God and to share in His wonderful gifts.

But as the world has been technologically brought together we need to learn to get along with each other for our own survival as war and conflict in an atomic age is no longer in our interest, so unity amongst us has become more important in this age than in any other.

Okay, but what is your response to the main thrust of my previous post?

 

[The_Fisher_King]

But Islam has been peaceful all along

Define 'peaceful'.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Okay, but what is your response to the main thrust of my previous post?

One question? How do I find a previous post? Is there a link or do I just browse manually? Sorry and thanks for your help.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Define 'peaceful'.

Peaceful as in causing no harm to others. But we can go as deep as you wish. Peaceful does not mean pacifist as in not defending oneself from a tyrant such as a Hitler. To ignore a Hitler and not stop him would be allowing massacre and allowing others to be slaughtered is not peaceful.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

One question? How do I find a previous post? Is there a link or do I just browse manually? Sorry and thanks for your help.

It's me who should be apologising, not you! I was just being lazy! Here is the post I meant:

But how many religions really put the unity of the human race and fostering the spirit of love and fellowship amongst men centre-stage? Not that many, I'd say. That may be an aspect of some religions, but I'm not sure it's their fundamental purpose. Worship of God, Goddess, gods, goddesses is often a more prominent theme. Or seeking knowledge. Or detachment from the world. Or avoiding sin. As a Muslim I can tell you for a fact that service of The God/dess for me trumps the unity of the human race every time. What does that make me in your eyes?

 

[The_Fisher_King]

Peaceful as in causing no harm to others. But we can go as deep as you wish. Peaceful does not mean pacifist as in not defending oneself from a tyrant such as a Hitler. To ignore a Hitler and not stop him would be allowing massacre and allowing others to be slaughtered is not peaceful.

Let's go deep! What do you see as the difference between being peaceful and being pacifist? Probably worth also defining what you mean by 'harm' above too.