Gun Rights are Women's Rights

[Mock Turtle]

Your saying "need" is a mis-statement.
I say "choose".

Your personal feelings don't address which is safer.

Edit....
This was in the news today.
Cyclist attacks driver with massive 'zombie killer' knife in broad daylight in south London street

Nah, that's just a friendly greeting - Crocodile Dundee style. I feel the cyclist's rage though - too much aggression by so many car drivers in our cities. Not that I cycle any more.

 

[Mock Turtle]

I'm not sure your gun laws deserve all the credit for your low homicide rate. We seem to have a culture of violence in the US unfortunately. I love this country, but there are some aspects of our culture that are just toxic. So, the only option at this point is to at the very least give law-abiding citizens the right to defend themselves.

All the evidence I have seen points to the sheer number of weapons in circulation for the vastly greater number of deaths by guns in the US. I doubt the US is any more violent than the UK, and as mentioned, it is mostly in the larger cities, and gang or drug related mostly it seems for such crimes wherever they happen.

 

[Altfish]

I'm not sure your gun laws deserve all the credit for your low homicide rate. We seem to have a culture of violence in the US unfortunately. I love this country, but there are some aspects of our culture that are just toxic. So, the only option at this point is to at the very least give law-abiding citizens the right to defend themselves.

Which is exactly what I said earlier. The US is like the wild west. The UK and Europe has advanced well beyond that.

 

[Revoltingest]

Basically, what you are saying is, if you had been at the scene in the picture above, there would be one dead lad now.

Actually, I only posted what was in the news because it was so outrageous.
A single incident doesn't really affect the reality of crime statistics.
But perception of such things affects how people feel.
Some in London might not feel safe.
But you feel safe. I feel safe. It's because we're in safe areas.
But it's reasonable to take precautions against unlikely calamities.
So I buy fire & liability insurance. I carry a handgun at times.

 

[Revoltingest]

Nah, that's just a friendly greeting - Crocodile Dundee style. I feel the cyclist's rage though - too much aggression by so many car drivers in our cities. Not that I cycle any more.

I suspect that wielding a knife in that manner won't help our (cyclists) image.
I know the aggression of drivers. One tried to kill me, & admitted this goal
to the cops who caught him after he fled the scene. RF is so lucky that I lived, eh.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

My apologies for not noticing your previous link. In any case, do you actually think people should not have the right to carry for self-defense? In that case I think we'll have to agree to disagree.

It's fine, the post was to someone else so I'm not surprised you didn't see it.

I'm saying adding more guns is making things worse, not better. I'm not a fan of concealed carry and less of the arguments that people use for their necessity.

If it came to a vote on abolishing concealed carry in my state, I probably would vote against it.

 

[Rational Agnostic]

It's fine, the post was to someone else so I'm not surprised you didn't see it.

I'm saying adding more guns is making things worse, not better. I'm not a fan of concealed carry and less of the arguments that people use for their necessity.

If it came to a vote on abolishing concealed carry in my state, I probably would vote against it.

I think concealed carry should be allowed for individuals who have no criminal record and who are extensively trained in firearm safety. People like this who are law-abiding citizens and know how to use guns safely are the ones who could potentially prevent mass shootings. In fact, a mass shooting was just prevented a few days ago in Oklahoma City by a legally armed citizen. Louie’s Grill & Bar in Oklahoma City: ‘Armed citizen’ fatally shoots gunman

 

[Revoltingest]

It's fine, the post was to someone else so I'm not surprised you didn't see it.

I'm saying adding more guns is making things worse, not better. I'm not a fan of concealed carry and less of the arguments that people use for their necessity.

If it came to a vote on abolishing concealed carry in my state, I probably would vote against it.

I have an idea....
If concealed carry is abolished, for all those who cannot legally carry, they
should also be prohibited from hiring security able to carry. (Yes, this is my
tweaking the noses of anti-gun celebrities who hire armed body guards.)

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

There you go...........
And I wonder if her home security is rubbish. If she invested in some simple effective home security she could cuddle her pillow instead.

This is the ultimate point to me in this endless argument. I'm a long time gun owner and user, but any time anyone starts a "I need my gun for protection" line, I struggle to think of a single case where having a gun provides the best possible security option, with fewest potential negative consequences. The average criminal is looking for a fast and easy buck, security doirs and motion lights will keep them away, they'd much rather find someone easier to target. This whole "guns for protection" rhetoric rests on the myth of random evil doers intent to do harm to strangers.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

I think concealed carry should be allowed for individuals who have no criminal record and who are extensively trained in firearm safety. People like this who are law-abiding citizens and know how to use guns safely are the ones who could potentially prevent mass shootings. In fact, a mass shooting was just prevented a few days ago in Oklahoma City by a legally armed citizen. Louie’s Grill & Bar in Oklahoma City: ‘Armed citizen’ fatally shoots gunman

Again though, the rest of the world doesn't deal with the mass shootings that we do. And our general gun violence statistics are nuts. So relying on concealed carry to be the hero Cowboys doesn't seem to be working well for us. Doesn't even seem much like a Band-Aid solution.

I have an idea....
If concealed carry is abolished, for all those who cannot legally carry, they
should also be prohibited from hiring security able to carry. (Yes, this is my
tweaking the noses of anti-gun celebrities who hire armed body guards.)

If statistics are any indication, the fans at crowded events are in more danger of shootings anyway.

 

[metis]

Guns make killing easier.

A friend of mine's father, who eventually became chief-of-police in the city I grew up in, was stabbed 17 times during his career and lived to tell about it. Would the same be true if his assailants had guns?

In China, a madman went to an elementary school there several years ago and stabbed 22 children, but each of them lived, so would that have happened if he came in with a gun?

My point is to not ban guns but to make it much more difficult for some people to get them, have long sentences for those who are caught with illegal guns, plus not be so paranoid in our homes whereas we take a dangerous risk by keeping a loaded one there. And then think "preventative".

 

[oldbadger]

Home security at best can alert the police that a criminal is in the house, but it doesn't do anything to stop the criminal.

No..... That's quite wrong.
You're mixing up alarms with simple security.
And I don't have much enthusiasm for central station connected alarms, only intruder deterrents.
The fact that you didn't mention any of the most basic deterrents does show me quite a lit.

In your scenario, how does this intruder enter her home?

 

[oldbadger]

This is the ultimate point to me in this endless argument. I'm a long time gun owner and user, but any time anyone starts a "I need my gun for protection" line, I struggle to think of a single case where having a gun provides the best possible security option, with fewest potential negative consequences. The average criminal is looking for a fast and easy buck, security doirs and motion lights will keep them away, they'd much rather find someone easier to target. This whole "guns for protection" rhetoric rests on the myth of random evil doers intent to do harm to strangers.

Yes....!
I keep asking these gun nuts for a scenario but they won't give one.

Violent intruders don't pick on ordinary households, those incidents are more to do with known wealth or value at a premises or personal vendettas.

I used to visit gold dealers im London's East End, and those households really did have a very real problem, but their security never needed guns. There were Scores of security jobs which they completed, but no guns!

 

[Altfish]

Actually, I only posted what was in the news because it was so outrageous.
A single incident doesn't really affect the reality of crime statistics.
But perception of such things affects how people feel.
Some in London might not feel safe.
But you feel safe. I feel safe. It's because we're in safe areas.
But it's reasonable to take precautions against unlikely calamities.
So I buy fire & liability insurance. I carry a handgun at times.

Sadly, I wouldn't feel safe near you or near anyone carrying a weapon.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Guns make killing easier.

A friend of mine's father, who eventually became chief-of-police in the city I grew up in, was stabbed 17 times during his career and lived to tell about it. Would the same be true if his assailants had guns?

In China, a madman went to an elementary school there several years ago and stabbed 22 children, but each of them lived, so would that have happened if he came in with a gun?

My point is to not ban guns but to make it much more difficult for some people to get them, have long sentences for those who are caught with illegal guns, plus not be so paranoid in our homes whereas we take a dangerous risk by keeping a loaded one there. And then think "preventative".

I was stabbed once (slashed, really) and I have been in exchanges of fire. Guess which one is worse?

 

[Revoltingest]

Sadly, I wouldn't feel safe near you or near anyone carrying a weapon.

You're easily frightened.
I know many who carry...the most dangerous one being a cop.

 

[Altfish]

You're easily frightened.
I know many who carry...the most dangerous one being a cop.

No, I'm not easily frightened. But guns frighten me, as do knives.
Police in the UK do not normally carry guns but when (usually at airports and near senior politicians) I see them with guns, I feel less safe.

 

[Revoltingest]

No, I'm not easily frightened. But guns frighten me, as do knives.
Police in the UK do not normally carry guns but when (usually at airports and near senior politicians) I see them with guns, I feel less safe.

Dang...I'm brave in comparison.
(That doesn't happen often.)

I've always been around guns.
Hell, I was once a weapon system designer.
So there's nothing intrinsically frightening.
But I do hate seeing them handled poorly.

 

[Mock Turtle]

I suspect that wielding a knife in that manner won't help our (cyclists) image.
I know the aggression of drivers. One tried to kill me, & admitted this goal
to the cops who caught him after he fled the scene. RF is so lucky that I lived, eh.

The cyclist is doing his bit to solidify the image of where all the crime seems to come from. Surprisingly, most of my encounters with cycling incidents have occurred away from cities, apart from one when I was run down by a car coming from a side street and where my bike ended up under the back wheels with me fortunately just missing being run over. His fault, and a new bike basically, so not all bad. And this happened on my normal commute into the city but not on a working day. Pretty fortunate otherwise given the amount of cycling I have done.

 

[oldbadger]

Sadly, I wouldn't feel safe near you or near anyone carrying a weapon.

So true!
I used to wonder why US mail boxes were situated right outside domestic premises, on the street, and also I wondered why paper boys 'n' girls would just chuck the rolled paper into the property.

I blooming well know why now!

Can you imagine just walking up to any front door to ask for directions, or as I diod when serving legal process?

The Gun-nuts rant on about women walking through dangerous neighbourhoods and similar scenarios, but what could be more risky than than just walking up to front doors after a certain time?

My wife likes watching 'Animal Cops' about RSPCA type folks who visit US premises, and it's just amazing how many times she sees property owners waving and pointing guns to make these people go away.

Yeah........... No!