Halloween - Harmless or Harmful Fun?

[gnostic]

it is also a major satanic ritual day. It’s a religious holiday for the underworld, with satanists performing sacrifices and witches celebrating with prayer circles. When the druids celebrated halloween, they roamed the streets with lanterns, and on coming to a house, they demanded money as an offering for Satan.

As everyone else have already pointed out, the druids weren't satanists.

Samhain (the ancient Celtic religious holiday, not the modern Halloween) had nothing to do with Satan. And the druids didn't celebrate Halloween.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

It's harmful. Very harmful. There was this one time, when this one guy opened this portal at midnight on Halloween by chanting thirty Hail Mary's in the dark in front of a mirror, and he released a ghoul of revenge. I kid you not, it was terrifying. And then, my friend, Beth Ann, was all, "YOU DID NOT", and I was like, YES HE DID".

Oh no he DI-INT!!

Girl, there was this group of kids one time that went out to the railroad tracks, parked the car on the tracks, dusted some baby powder on the rear bumper, and then got back in the car. They heard a scraping sound on the roof of the car, called home to talk about a creepy clown statue that kept staring at them in the house (which their parents kept saying, "Listen carefully, we don't have a clown statue in the house *ooooooohhhhh, crap*)....and then they felt the car move forward on the tracks. *daaaaannnnnggggg*

They got out of the car, and then they saw not just fingerprints on the bumper, but a hook on the handle of the car and a boyfriend hanging upside down scraping the roof.

And a choking Doberman.

And then they found out the calls were coming from inside the house. When the police came in, they found writing in blood on the walls saying, "Humans can lick, too!"

.

.

.

It's late. I have all my urban legends mixed up.

 

[Shermana]

Several Roman historians wrote about how much human sacrifice, cannibalism, and blood orgies were a part of the Druidic religion, especially around Samhain.

 

[Pegg]

Several Roman historians wrote about how much human sacrifice, cannibalism, and blood orgies were a part of the Druidic religion, especially around Samhain.

we'll have no facts of that nature here please.

things look much prettier when you see them through rose colored glasses

 

[Cassiopia]

Several Roman historians wrote about how much human sacrifice, cannibalism, and blood orgies were a part of the Druidic religion, especially around Samhain.

Really, which ones?

we'll have no facts of that nature here please.

things look much prettier when you see them through rose colored glasses

Some Pagans did bad stuff in the past????
Sheesh... I'd better give up Paganism instantly then...

Well at least those cuddly Christians have never done anything bad wrong or violent in their short history.

 

[Shermana]

Tacitus and Pliny the Elder to start, and modern Archaeology is backing their claims.

Druids Committed Human Sacrifice, Cannibalism?

Recent evidence that Druids possibly committed cannibalism and ritual human sacrifice—perhaps on a massive scale—add weight to ancient Roman accounts of Druidic savagery, archaeologists say.

Druid Fountain of Blood
"You've got a rope tightened round his neck, and at the moment where the neck was constricted, the throat was cut, which would cause an enormous fountain of blood to rise up," said archaeologist Miranda Aldhouse-Green, an archaeologist at Cardiff University in Wales and an expert on the Druids.
Another clue lay inside the body's well-preserved gut: pollen grains from mistletoe, a plant that was sacred to the Druids. (Romans wrote that Druids cut mistletoe from trees with golden sickles.)
Lindow Man's death is dated to around A.D. 60, when the Romans launched a new offensive in the island of Great Britain, currently part of the United Kingdom.
He may have been sacrificed to persuade the Celtic gods to halt the Roman advance, Aldhouse-Green said.
"Something had to be done to stop them in their tracks," she said in the documentary. "And what better way than sacrificing a high-status nobleman?"
The idea jibes with something Julius Caesar wrote: In times of danger, the Celts believed that "unless the life of a man be offered, the mind of immortal gods will not favor them."

 

[no-body]

it is also a major satanic ritual day. It’s a religious holiday for the underworld, with satanists performing sacrifices and witches celebrating with prayer circles. .

Citations from legitimate sources on this?

News flash all this stuff about "occult satanic groups" are urban legends started by Christians to sell stuff to other Christians (including the belief not to celebrate Halloween) occasionally a couple of disturbed knuckle heads (mostly teens) will get together and do something of the sort as a goof, but it is hardly an entire day devoted to sacrifices by satanic groups since they don't exist in the first place.

 

[Cassiopia]

1 Samuel 18:27
David and his men went out and killed two hundred Philistines. He brought their foreskins and presented the full number to the king so that he might become the king's son-in-law.

Salam Witch Trials (From Wikipedia)
The best-known trials were conducted by the Court of Oyer and Terminer in 1692 in Salem Town. Over 150 people were arrested and imprisoned, with even more accused but not formally pursued by the authorities. All twenty-six who went to trial before this court were convicted. The four sessions of the Superior Court of Judicature in 1693, held in Salem Village, but also in Ipswich, Boston and Charlestown, produced only three convictions in the thirty-one witchcraft trials it conducted. The two courts convicted twenty-nine people of the capital felony of witchcraft. Nineteen of the accused, fourteen women and five men, were executed by hanging. One man, Giles Corey, refused to enter a plea and was crushed to death under heavy stones in an attempt to force him to do so. At least five more of the accused died in prison.

It seems Jews and Christians weren't always so cuddly after all!
What a surprize! :thud:

 

[Shermana]

I'm not going to ever defend so-called "Christian" barbarity, but in regards to 1 Samuel, you're not even close to context, you're aware the Philistines were at war with David right?

 

[Cassiopia]

I'm not going to ever defend so-called "Christian" barbarity, but in regards to 1 Samuel, you're not even close to context, you're aware the Philistines were at war with David right?

Right.
And removing men's foreskins (I believe there is another text in which it states that David decorated the temple with them) is less barbaric than what you have accused Pagans of, how exactly?

Actually I don't want to go too far down this line of argument. I am just making the point that all religions have done things which we might find shamefully barbaric today.

Pagan Romans fed Christians to lions. You won't find me defending that. But neither will you find me trying to imply that modern Christians or Jews are worshiping the Devil or being led by Satan just because their religions have committed atrocities in the past.

 

[Shermana]

All I'm saying is that the basis of Halloween and the Druidic Religion seems to be enmeshed in Human Sacrifice, Cannibalism, and Blood orgies.

I'm sure David's men killed them first before presenting the "War trophies". As for the practice itself, it's rather complicated but its nothing close to human sacrifice or any of that like, and it has a very spiritual purpose which few are able to understand. If you're saying that circumcision or removing a part of your defeated war enemies is "nothing better" than Cannibalism and Blood Orgies and Human Sacrifice, I highly disagree.

 

[Cassiopia]

All I'm saying is that the basis of Halloween and the Druidic Religion seems to be enmeshed in Human Sacrifice, Cannibalism, and Blood orgies.

And you are ignoring all the posters who have told you that is incorrect. Try looking up Halloween or Samhain at Wikipedia or any other neutral encyclopedia.

 

[Shermana]

And you are ignoring all the posters who have told you that is incorrect. Try looking up Halloween or Samhain at Wikipedia or any other neutral encyclopedia.

Well you're totally welcome to ignore the link I posted about the Archaelogical evidence backing up the Roman claims.

The fact you call Wikipedia a "neutral" source speaks volumes. If it's good for one thing, it's the Talk Page, and there's QUITE a talk page on that article.

Also, by chance, can you reference any posts that actually disprove the claim on this thread here?

 

[Cassiopia]

Well you're totally welcome to ignore the link I posted about the Archaelogical evidence backing up the Roman claims.

The fact you call Wikipedia a "neutral" source speaks volumes. If it's good for one thing, it's the Talk Page, and there's QUITE a talk page on that article.

Also, by chance, can you reference any posts that actually disprove the claim on this thread here?

I said "any other neutral encyclopedia".
For example this is from Dictionalry com
HALLOWEEN. Halloween (also Hallowe'en) is thought to have derived from a pre-Christian festival known as Samhain (pronounced "Sah-wen") celebrated among the Celtic peoples. The various peoples whom we now refer to as "Celts" once lived across Europe, but in time came to inhabit the areas known today as Ireland, Scotland, Wales, Brittany, and Cornwall. Modern Irish, Welsh, and Scots peoples are the descendants of these peoples, as are their Gaelic languages.

History
Samhain was the principal feast day of the year; it was the New Year's Day of a year that began on 1 November. Traditionally, bonfires were lit as part of the celebration. It was believed that the spirits of those who had died during the previous twelve months were granted access into the otherworld during Samhain. Thus, spirits were said to be traveling on that evening, as the Celtic day was counted from sundown to sundown.

Scholars know little about the actual practices and beliefs associated with Samhain. Most accounts were not written down until centuries after the conversion of Ireland to Christianity (c. 300 C.E.), and then by Christian monks recording ancient sagas. From the evidence, we know that Samhain was a focal point of the yearly cycle, and that traditions of leaving out offerings of food and drink to comfort the wandering spirits had joined the bonfire custom. Also, the tradition of mumming—dressing in disguise and performing from home to home in exchange for food or drink, as well as pranking, perhaps in imitation of the wandering spirits, or simply as a customary activity found throughout Europe—had become part of the occasion. With the acceptance of Christianity, the dates of the pre-Christian festivals were used as occasions for church feast and holy days. The first day of November became, in the sixth century, the Feast of All Saints, or All Hallows. Many of the folk traditions surrounding this occasion continued, and the Eve of All Hallows, Hallow Evening, has become conflated into the word "Hallowe'en." In the ninth century, 2 November was assigned the Feast of All Souls, a day set aside for prayers for all the faithful departed who had died during the previous year.

 

[Shermana]

Well when you say "Any other" I'd assume you mean "more like it" but I suppose in context it can mean something different.

Now if you're limiting your sources merely to Encyclopedia entries and discounting the writings of ancient Greeks and Romans which are backed by Archaelogy, that's up to you, but the objectivity stands.

The Pagan's Path ~ Witchcraft & Shamanism - The History Of Samhain / Halloween

In most if not all of these accounts, Samhain is immersed in blood and sacrifice. Often in the earliest of times, those sacrifices were human. One Greek account states these early Celts sacrificed prisoners captured during a battle during their New Years festival of Samhain. In The History and Origins of Druidism by Lewis Spencer writes about the Druids stating they burned their victims in holy fire which had to be consecrated by a Druid priest.

 

[A. T. Henderson]

Then enlighten me, who is?

There isn't one, exactly: Thanatos is the closest thing to it, though like Eurynomos he's not actually a God, he's just a daemon. Thanatos probably deserves reverence more than Eurynomos, though. That guy just sat by the Styx and stripped the flesh from mortal bones before they entered the Underworld.

 

[A. T. Henderson]

Several Roman historians wrote about how much human sacrifice, cannibalism, and blood orgies were a part of the Druidic religion, especially around Samhain.

Yeah, the Romans are definitely the most reliable and unbiased source for learning about the enemies of the Romans, right? It's not like they practically invented propaganda or anything.

 

[Shermana]

Yeah, the Romans are definitely the most reliable and unbiased source for learning about the enemies of the Romans, right? It's not like they practically invented propaganda or anything.

Yeah, those Archaeologists who say their findings support their claims are all part of a big neo-Roman Propaganda machine too. Perhaps you'd like to show some other examples of Roman propaganda that turned out to be false or distorted?

 

[A. T. Henderson]

Yeah, those Archaeologists who say their findings support their claims are all part of a big neo-Roman Propaganda machine too. Perhaps you'd like to show some other examples of Roman propaganda that turned out to be false or distorted?

How about Carthage? Or pretty much everything that they claimed about Celtic culture? The Romans lied about all of their enemies, and thanks to their wholesale destruction of everything belonging to those enemies, their accounts were for a long time all we had to go on. It's only recently that archaeologists have looked deeper and found far richer (and immeasurably less barbaric) cultures than the Romans claimed existed.

So which archaeologists are you referring to? I've never heard of anyone who could legitimately claim that they'd found direct evidence of exactly what was involved in the original Samhuin ceremonies. All we have are scraps and suppositions, and a remarkably small number of obvious sacrificial victims for what is alleged to be an annual massacre.

Obviously, human sacrifice was involved in Celtic culture, and I'm not about to claim that people weren't sacrificed during Samhuin. But in Celtic culture human sacrifice was reserved for extreme circumstances, when the sacrifice of a lesser animal simply would not do, and the victim had to be willing. The Romans, by the way, had pretty much the same policy.

Most Samhuin sacrifices were actually given in the form of blood from slaughtered animals: this being the season during which livestock was slaughtered to provide meat for the winter. It was the spilling of blood from this slaughter which was thought to "thin the veil" between the living and the dead.

 

[Shermana]

Can you get some actual examples of these lies? I suppose the Greeks were lying too by this logic, now were they enemies with the Celts as well?

As for the Archaelogists, try clicking back a few pages to the link I provided. NVM, here it is.

Druids Committed Human Sacrifice, Cannibalism?

It's only recently that archaeologists have looked deeper and found far richer (and immeasurably less barbaric) cultures than the Romans claimed existed.

Can you provide a link to back this claim?