Halloween - Harmless or Harmful Fun?

[Twig pentagram]

Halloween is harmless.

 

[A. T. Henderson]

Umm, you mean according to the Hebrew language?

Same difference in this instance. It is the Hebrew Bible which describes the alleged sacrifices, and a Hebrew word used to name the supposed location of them.

You can't just write off multiple accounts of anyone's enemy as propaganda, especially if you have no counter evidence.

You just posted from the same page as me, which contains the counter evidence. Modern archaeological discoveries, such as I referenced, indicate that these were graveyards for the stillborn, not centres of child sacrifice.

Further, all of these accounts are drawn from the same sources, all of whom were mortal enemies of the Carthaginians. Had the Carthaginians won, it would probably be the Hebrews and Romans we thought these things about. So while I can't "write them off" entirely, I have to take that fact into account, and I cannot rely on them as objective and solid evidence.

 

[gnostic]

Many of the Roman and Greek historians had never met druids.

Only Posidonius and Julius Caesar have been in actual contacts with the Gauls and the druids. The writings of other historians (including Strabo, Pliny the Elder, Tacitus) were mostly based on Posidonius' work.

 

[dawny0826]

Assalamualaikum.

From the Review of Religions:
Halloween – Harmless or Harmful Fun? - The Review of Religions



"The Review of Religions, in print since 1902, is one of the longest-running comparative religious magazines.

The objective of the magazine is to present the teachings of Islam, reflecting its rational, harmonious and inspiring nature. It also brings together articles and viewpoints on different religions and seeks to make discussions on religion and religious philosophy accessible to a wider readership.

The magazine is devoted to promoting intellectual and lively debate that is based on respect for all prophets and religions. Islam repeatedly stresses the need to seek knowledge and The Review of Religions provides a unique platform for people to acquire, and share knowledge.

The Review of Religions is an international magazine that is published by the Ahmadiyya Muslim community – a global organisation dedicated to promoting interfaith understanding."

With anything in life, I believe it the intentions of the participants that determine as to whether or not something is harmless or evil.

From what I've read on Samhain, it seems rather lovely to me - appreciating harvest, honoring and remembering the dead...

Halloween is family time for me. My sisters and I get together with the kids and have silly fun.

 

[Shermana]

Same difference in this instance. It is the Hebrew Bible which describes the alleged sacrifices, and a Hebrew word used to name the supposed location of them.

The word comes from the Location where the alleged sacrifices took place, the word itself is in reference to the place of burning, regardless. It's a language thing. So the word itself means "place of burning".

You just posted from the same page as me, which contains the counter evidence. Modern archaeological discoveries, such as I referenced, indicate that these were graveyards for the stillborn, not centres of child sacrifice.

Where's the counter evidence? The Stillborn youths may be some evidence, maybe they simply burned them in the same location? There's no conclusive evidence against it.

Further, all of these accounts are drawn from the same sources, all of whom were mortal enemies of the Carthaginians. Had the Carthaginians won, it would probably be the Hebrews and Romans we thought these things about. So while I can't "write them off" entirely, I have to take that fact into account, and I cannot rely on them as objective and solid evidence.

[/QUOTE]

The Hebrews never fought the Carthaganians, what did Philo have against them? What did Tertullian have against them?

 

[A. T. Henderson]

The word comes from the Location where the alleged sacrifices took place, the word itself is in reference to the place of burning, regardless. It's a language thing. So the word itself means "place of burning".

Which doesn't automatically translate to "place where children were sacrificed to Moloch". Cremation is a respectful form of disposal for the dead in many cultures.

Where's the counter evidence? The Stillborn youths may be some evidence, maybe they simply burned them in the same location? There's no conclusive evidence against it.

And there's no conclusive evidence for it, either. What evidence there is shows a graveyard, not a place of sacrifice.

The Hebrews never fought the Carthaganians, what did Philo have against them? What did Tertullian have against them?

The only account the Hebrews gave of the Cartheginians appears in the Bible, and that's certainly not a reliable historical record.

As for what all of these groups and people had against Carthage: it was rumour and innuendo, same as what everyone had against everyone else in the ancient world. No culture from that time can be relied upon to give an accurate account of their neighbours, or anyone else for that matter. They can't even be relied upon to give an accurate description of themselves, ffs.

 

[Shermana]

The Carthaganians are only mentioned as "Tarshish", and never negatively as far as I'm aware. So thus, Philo has no reason to speak so terribly of them, as the Jews have never really had a problem with Tarshish.

 

[A. T. Henderson]

The Carthaganians are only mentioned as "Tarshish", and never negatively as far as I'm aware. So thus, Philo has no reason to speak so terribly of them, as the Jews have never really had a problem with Tarshish.

You mean Philo of Alexandria? The Philo who lived amongst the Greeks more than 100 years after the destruction of Carthage by the Romans, when all that was left of the city was the stories told by the Romans and a few lines in the Bible? Who lived during the period when he himself had to travel to Rome and appeal to the Emperor Caligula in order to secure rights for the Hebrews who were under constant threat by both the Alexandrians and Caligula himself?

I wonder what possible reason he could have had to speak badly of Carthage.

 

[illykitty]

It's harmless fun for children. They have no idea of what Halloween used to be in old days-for them it is just about dressing up and having tons of sugary stuff!

I don't like having a fuss at things in which people read too much into or imagine. Remember kids minds are simple and Halloween is just that-Halloween!

I've always participated when I was young and satanic stuff NEVER crossed my mind. I'll leave you all at that.

 

[Revoltingest]

It's harmless fun for children. They have no idea of what Halloween used to be in old days-for them it is just about dressing up and having tons of sugary stuff!
I don't like having a fuss at things in which people read too much into or imagine. Remember kids minds are simple and Halloween is just that-Halloween!
I've always participated when I was young and satanic stuff NEVER crossed my mind. I'll leave you all at that.

It is what we celebrate....costumes, candy, the fall season, pumpkins & ghoulish delights.
No presents to buy, no unpleasant family members to dine with & no stores closed for it.
The fact that some people bristle at it's origins makes it all the better.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Samhain was a festival to satan...the lord of the underworld.

i think they did believe in him.

Perhaps you are confusing Pan for Satan. Pan did indeed have antlers and hooved feet, but he most certainly was not regarded as a devil, lord of the underworld, and Samhain wasn't his holiday to begin with.

 

[Erebus]

There isn't one, exactly: Thanatos is the closest thing to it, though like Eurynomos he's not actually a God, he's just a daemon. Thanatos probably deserves reverence more than Eurynomos, though. That guy just sat by the Styx and stripped the flesh from mortal bones before they entered the Underworld.

Look at my religion dude

Honestly though I see what you're saying, a lot of the Demonolatry gods are modernised versions of old gods and demons. We tend to view them archetypally rather than as hard polytheists. I know some Demonolaters do prefer Thanatos to Eurynomous just as some prefer Aphrodite to Lilith (Lilith also has a somewhat nasty history).

 

[outhouse]

I would have to question ones intelligence that would find it anything but harmless.

Its for the children, period.


One thing neglected [possibly] is that this is a holiday of centuries of evolution to become its current event. To pick the beginning of the traditon, or a point where soul cakes were offered so people could pray for lost souls is just severely ignorant. the tradition evolved

 

[Storm]

All I'm saying is that the basis of Halloween and the Druidic Religion seems to be enmeshed in Human Sacrifice, Cannibalism, and Blood orgies.

The original claim was that Samhain was a festival for Satan. Regardless of what unsavory rites the ancient Celts may or may not have practiced, that's patently absurd.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Its for the children, period.

And us over-sized and over-aged children!

 

[The Sum of Awe]

I honestly don't know if it was originally a sacrifice ritual, nor care. We don't do it modernly (obviously) so why worry about it? It is harmless today at least.

 

[A. T. Henderson]

We tend to view them archetypally rather than as hard polytheists.

Well, I can't say I disapprove. The Greeks ended up doing pretty much the same thing: viewing their deities as ideals rather than entities. It's a little confusing that you refer to daemons as Gods, though that was my misunderstanding, and I apologise if I was a bit abrupt.

I'm afraid I don't know anything about demonolatry. Is it a left-hand-path thing, or are the daemons more generally benevolent, as they were for the Greeks?

 

[Erebus]

Well, I can't say I disapprove. The Greeks ended up doing pretty much the same thing: viewing their deities as ideals rather than entities. It's a little confusing that you refer to daemons as Gods, though that was my misunderstanding, and I apologise if I was a bit abrupt.

I'm afraid I don't know anything about demonolatry. Is it a left-hand-path thing, or are the daemons more generally benevolent, as they were for the Greeks?

No problem at all, I apologise myself for my initial response. It would have been better to explain myself straight away.

The use of demon/daemon as being interchangeable with god/deity is in my opinion largely to do with the practice of taboo breaking. A practitioner is encouraged to look beyond the cultural fear of the word "Demon" and find that historically it's had both positive and negative connotations. While Demonolaters don't tend to believe in good versus evil (generally describing demons, people and nature itself as "a shade of grey") some demons are more helpful/harmful than others. For example Rosier is considered a demon of love while Tezrian is a demon of hate and/or battle.
These are two of the more extreme examples of course, most of the demons are more "neutral". Having said that though, love can be painful and hate can be a release so even Rosier and Tezrian aren't entirely positive and negative.

Whether or not Demonolatry falls under the Left Hand Path is up for debate really. It blends some of the LHP practices such as self worship, taboo breaking and moral subjectivity with some RHP practices such as having external deities (though some Demonolaters don't consider demons to be external at all) and generally not considering death itself to be entirely negative. In general I would argue that it leans more towards LHP than RHP, but perhaps doesn't entirely encapsulate the spirit of the Left Hand Path as some other religions and practices do.

 

[Panda]

Why does it matter what its purpose may once have been?

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Why does it matter what its purpose may once have been?

That's what I said :clap