I do not lie.
Here's a little history for you to read:
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Hamas, innocent Palestinians, and the UN
- Thread starter icehorse
- Start date
I do not lie.
Here's a little history for you to read:
You continue to evade my question. Dialogue with you is proving to be increasingly worthless.
Orbit
I'm a planet
How is that evading your question? It is a quite direct answer. That is their point. That is the grievance. The other things I referenced are also their grievances.
ImmortalFlame
Woke gremlin
They very clearly, and very thoroughly and respectfully, answered your question.
This is lie, bro, don't exaggerated by bias to Israel by lies. It's shame and unfair from you.I do not lie.
Here's a little history for you to read:
Two-state solution - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
Do you know even Hamas accepted two states solution in 2017?
I total realize that you extrem pro Israel, so the palestinians lives had no rights or values to you.
We're done ...
Orbit
I'm a planet
Whatever, bro.
How sweet!
From post #108:
Have you looked into WHY they were rejected? Has it occurred to you that they were bad deals? The partition plan was rejected by the Arab community, in part due to concerns about how much land and access to resources it would get.
From post #110:
A couple of quick questions:
- Do you consider it a bad deal and, if so, why?
- Have you ever visited Israel and, if so, did the visit extend to the Negev?
From post #113 -- the purported 'clear, thorough, and respectful' answer to question #1:
I'm just a bystander who is tired of their tax dollars being used to slaughter children. I've researched about the history of the region to the best of my ability trying to make sense of all of this, and what I have found is that the Palestinians have a point. They have a valid grievance. To say so seems to be forbidden.
From post #113 -- the purported 'clear, thorough, and respectful' answer to question #2:
You don't need to go to Israel to do any of that.
Thank you for sharing.
ImmortalFlame
Woke gremlin
The question you asked, in post 119:How sweet!
From post #108:
Have you looked into WHY they were rejected? Has it occurred to you that they were bad deals? The partition plan was rejected by the Arab community, in part due to concerns about how much land and access to resources it would get.
From post #110:
A couple of quick questions:
- Do you consider it a bad deal and, if so, why?
- Have you ever visited Israel and, if so, did the visit extend to the Negev?
From post #113 -- the purported 'clear, thorough, and respectful' answer to question #1:
I'm just a bystander who is tired of their tax dollars being used to slaughter children. I've researched about the history of the region to the best of my ability trying to make sense of all of this, and what I have found is that the Palestinians have a point. They have a valid grievance. To say so seems to be forbidden.
From post #113 -- the purported 'clear, thorough, and respectful' answer to question #2:
You don't need to go to Israel to do any of that.
Thank you for sharing.
"So, again, what was their point and why do you deem it valid?"
The answer they gave, in post 120:
To put it simply, they were dispossessed of their land in the past. That's the root of the issue, but we can't put toothpaste back in the tube. Colonialism is ugly, and it has consequences.
Currently, Palestinians continue to be dispossessed of their land in the West Bank by Israeli settlers. Their houses are bulldozed or taken over, and they are shot or forced to leave. The U.S. supplies the weapons, indirectly. The illegal expansion of Israeli settlements outside the 1967 borders is a problem. There is no freedom of movement. Palestinians cannot travel without a pass, and Palestinian neighborhoods are separated from each other by military checkpoints.
For Gaza specifically, their economy has been intentionally crippled by the Israeli blockade. Israel destroys infrastructure, and doesn't allow sufficient construction materials in for rebuilding. Israel won't allow the building of infrastructure, for example drilling wells, installing pumps, or water infrastructure (see 2017 report below). There is a more or less permanent shortage of clean water where there needn't be. Israel controls every aspect of life in Gaza.
In Israel, there is arbitrary detention for Palestinian children, lack of civil rights, trial before military courts for children, and a culture of mutual hatred with all that brings. Palestinians are tortured, imprisoned, and killed by Hamas, the IDF, and other terrorist groups.
The results of decades of this is radicalization on both sides. There is a seemingly endless cycle of hate that results in terror attacks and retaliatory attacks.
The Occupation of Water
The legacy of Israel’s 50-year occupation of the Palestinian territories has been systematic human rights violations on a mass scale. One of its consequences is the impact of Israel’s discriminatory policies on Palestinians’ access to clean and safe water.www.amnesty.org
Here is a translation of a Hebrew tweet that appears alongside a picture of U.S. M-16s being handed out to settlers:
"Minister of National Security Itamar Ben Gvir distributing dozens of weapons to ultra-Orthodox volunteers in the emergency room in the city of Elad.".
I'm also not happy about funding gun transfers to settlers who are going to use the guns to remove Palestinians from their land in the West Bank, but that's a separate subject.
That is, undeniably, a perfectly clear answer to the question you asked. You cannot, in good faith, accuse them of dodging that question. They said that Palestinians had a valid grievance, you asked what that grievance was, they answered. And you accused them of not answering, which is objectively false.
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You clearly think so.
ImmortalFlame
Woke gremlin
How, exactly, is that post anything other than direct answer to your question? Please explain that logic to me.
[EDIT: The following was made in error, as I thought the initial post was addressed to Jayhawker when it was addressed to another poster.]
Also, they asked YOU a couple of questions that you very explicitly dodged. Literally, you're accusing them of doing the very thing you just openly acknowledged doing yourself.
From your own post (emphasis mine):
From post #108:
Have you looked into WHY they were rejected? Has it occurred to you that they were bad deals? The partition plan was rejected by the Arab community, in part due to concerns about how much land and access to resources it would get.
From post #110:
A couple of quick questions:
- Do you consider it a bad deal and, if so, why?
- Have you ever visited Israel and, if so, did the visit extend to the Negev?
You're literally admitting to doing the very thing you're accusing them of doing.
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This is an incredibly complex situation.. bro.
I will discuss this with you, but not if you stoop to making personal attacks.
ImmortalFlame
Woke gremlin
Ah, my mistake. I've added a note to the post addressing the error.
The point still stands. You asked a question, and an answer was very clearly given.
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There is no personal, i can't deal with people whom try to lie to defend their views beliefs.
Their humanity sense depend on color or religion or race.
Your claim that Arabs leaders rejected states solution is big lie.
Even Hamas accepted recently two states solution.
Check this please.
Hamas accepts Palestinian state with 1967 borders
Khaled Meshaal presents a new document in which Hamas accepts 1967 borders without recognising state of Israel.
@Godobeyer International community opinion is a wild card. Disbelievers are controlled by sorcery of Devils from Jinn and humans. If they sought truth for politics, they would have sought the truth for God's religion. There are few exceptions like @Revoltingest.
Muslims need to come to Ahlulbayt (a) and Quran and cease division within. They need to over throw the puppet regimes they have and make an Islamic nation that is united.
If they don't do it, it is out of love of Dunya which is out of disbelief in the nature of the next world, his Messenger, and God. Those who are aware of the inward world believe in God's signs.
It's unrealistic that they follow anything but caprice and they are controlled by Shayateen regarding truth. We got to find the solution within the Muslims.
Muslims need to come to Ahlulbayt (a) and Quran and cease division within. They need to over throw the puppet regimes they have and make an Islamic nation that is united.
If they don't do it, it is out of love of Dunya which is out of disbelief in the nature of the next world, his Messenger, and God. Those who are aware of the inward world believe in God's signs.
It's unrealistic that they follow anything but caprice and they are controlled by Shayateen regarding truth. We got to find the solution within the Muslims.
Orbit
I'm a planet
People who don't believe in your religion are not controlled by the devil.
A few aren't, perhaps, most are.
Orbit
I'm a planet
None are.
Satan is a manifest enemy. God is a manifest lord. And the witness of our time is a manifest leader.
The heedless don't see any of this.