Hamas must be eradicated

[icehorse]

The possibility of a Jewish homeland in Palestine had been a goal of Zionist organizations since the late 19th century.

The goal of Muslims for 1400 years has been that the entire ME will be Islamic. They've conquered the Coptics, the Yazidis, the Kurds, other non-Muslim peoples. And if not for tiny Israel, they would have accomplished their goal.

 

[Revoltingest]

The goal of Muslims for 1400 years has been that the entire ME will be Islamic. They've conquered the Coptics, the Yazidis, the Kurds, other non-Muslim peoples. And if not for tiny Israel, they would have accomplished their goal.

Well, that sounds like cromulent justification
for oppression & war crimes. Those pesky
Palestinians shouldn't have been living
while Muslim on Jewish land.

 

[icehorse]

Well, that sounds like cromulent justification
for oppression & war crimes. Those pesky
Palestinians shouldn't have been living
while Muslim on Jewish land.

and.... once again, damn the context, full speed ahead

 

[Bthoth]

I think I've been pretty respectful in this discussion in only stating what I believe to be true as my opinion and why for your analysis. I've refrained from childish emotional responses like "your statement is "complete garbage" among those other personal attacks you've directed at me here.
You've suddenly made this discussion insulting and disrespectful instead of a reasonable response with your counterpoint. Just remember you've made this a personal attack instead of a reasonable discussion.

I've studied the 6 day war of 1967. I'm no expert military strategist but I've read many who are. Your quote and sophomoric reply concerning it belies the fact that you have a simplistic view of the realities of that war and what led up to Israel's strategic strike. You should have delved a little deeper than stopping at what you thought was a black and white answer concerning a dynamic situation.

The fact is, israel took the first armed fire against egypt.

No debate, nothing to argue.

Prior to Israel's preemptive strike Egypt "fired the first shots"

proven that israel fired the first shot.

of the subsequent war with Israel by implementing a blockade of Israeli goods through the strait of Tiran.

Blockade is not an armed response. Israel started the war, period.

Realize, there was ongoing and increasing tensions between the Arabs and the Israelis throughout the 60's and there was already ongoing skirmishes between them on Israel's northern and western borders with Arab insurgents, the Syrian military, and Palestinian guerilla's. So tensions were high.

Sure, but the truth stands, the nasty started the armed war of 1967.

Israel did not attack Egypt until other factors came into play which led up to making the attack a necessary component of Israel's strategic defensive strategy.
Those components were...From Wikipedia ;

1) "As tensions between Israel and Syria increased, Israel felt the threat of force was the only deterrent left.[22] On May 12, the Politburo was told that the IDF had formulated a large-scale attack on Syria and was simply waiting for a good time to begin it

yep, israel started it.

Egypt gets emboldened on going to war with Israel.

But as evidence stands, israel started it.

5) At the same time Syria increased its border clashes with Israel and mobilized its Army along the Israeli border.

Gee wiz, sounds like their preparing for piece as well.

OK... the model you have is preemptive. But israel started the armed combat and with US won. no debate

6) Finally...."The Israelis interpreted the closing of the straits of Tiran as an act of war, and attacked Egypt on June 5, 1967, destroying hundreds of airplanes.[29]"

Yes, israel started it. No debate.

Keep in mind that the Israelis were outnumbered militarily 3 to 1 and were fighting on 3 different fronts.
It was absolutely understandable, strategically critical, and logically necessary that Israel would seek to give themselves a better chance through a pre-emptive strike on Egypt.

I get it... starting it, is how they won.

Of which I contend - due to the factors leading up to it - that the strike was technically reactive rather than pre-emptive.

technically, strategically.... first strike won.

I get it.. but the fact remains... israel started the conflict.

Any grade school child could see its necessity as a measure of a successful self defense.

Just like blowing up gaza is strategic but wrong, in both cases.

But you chose to quote only the little snippet of all that happened as a way to paint Israel as the evil aggressor.

of course the aggressor can win, but that does not make it right.

Dare I say - garbage? Typical anti-Semite tactics.

Oh yes, the AS term that bigots use constantly

the Jew are against israel and why they will not lose. the dross are going to end in a horrible way, just as tanakh prophecy states.

Now if you have any reasonable counterpoints you'd like to share back I'm willing to receive them and think about them but only in so much as you leave the personal insults out of the discussion. Else no need to respond to me.
Since your "Conscious and Capable" I would think you would be able to do that.

I am honest the nasty do not have such an integrity.

Be certain I am willing to think before accepting the rhetoric of the bigots.

 

[icehorse]

The fact is, israel took the first armed fire against egypt.

No debate, nothing to argue.

Context matters.

No debate, nothing to argue.

 

[Bthoth]

Context matters.

No debate, nothing to argue.

Yep..... Israel is not a good ally and should not be trusted.

 

[icehorse]

Yep..... Israel is not a good ally and should not be trusted.

That's a big conversational shift from the point we were discussing.

 

[Bthoth]

That's a big conversational shift from the point we were discussing.

I addressed that israel attacked egypt in 1967.

Just as israel created concentration camp GAZA and the band of terrorist by oppressing human beings.

What israel is doing is creating more terrorist, not eradicating them.

 

[icehorse]

I addressed that israel attacked egypt in 1967.

Just as israel created concentration camp GAZA and the band of terrorist by oppressing human beings.

What israel is doing is creating more terrorist, not eradicating them.

Other posters have argued that in 1967 Israel was - in practice - reacting to the aggressions of it's neighbors. I agree with that assessment. In the case of 1967 "firing the first shot" was a technicality, the attack on Israel was imminent.

As for your next points, I disagree, and this perspective has been debated over and over again.

 

[muhammad_isa]

In the case of 1967 "firing the first shot" was a technicality, the attack on Israel was imminent..

It doesn't really matter .. we know the result .. continuing enmity for all that live in the region.
The international community made this mess, but do they solve it? No.
Those in power just continue to support Israel militarily, and the problem gets worse and worse.
People suffer .. and G-d sees all.

 

[Bthoth]

Other posters have argued that in 1967 Israel was - in practice - reacting to the aggressions of it's neighbors. I agree with that assessment. In the case of 1967 "firing the first shot" was a technicality, the attack on Israel was imminent.

Sure, 'in practice' dividing people is based on bigotry.

As for your next points, I disagree, and this perspective has been debated over and over again.

'In practice' oppression creates resistance and violence.

 

[icehorse]

Sure, 'in practice' dividing people is based on bigotry.

'In practice' oppression creates resistance and violence.

And in practice, tolerating the intolerant never works.

 

[Bthoth]

And in practice, tolerating the intolerant never works.

Is that why 'we the people' continue to fund an apartheid?

The intolerant actually believe that they own jerusalem and 'we' US tolerate it to the extent of breaking international law.

 

[lokinforpeace]

If any of that was true then your friend would have put the lives of those marines at risk by telling people that ahead of an operation

And you would also be responsible

The source was from a friend of mine and I am not worried that my post would give away the upcoming marine landing.
My post is not reviewed by our military
-

 

[Eddi]

The source was from a friend of mine and I am not worried that my post would give away the upcoming marine landing.
My post is not reviewed by our military
-

Loose lips sink ships

You should be worried your post could have caused people to die

You are evidently not a responsible person and if you are an American you are most certainly not a patriot to say the least

Edit: good job it's fantasy

 

[Little Dragon]

Since Oct 7th, Israeli settlers in the West Bank and elsewhere have been killing Palestinians and running them off of their land (963 people so far), with the IDF standing by. It's under-reported, but important.

Israeli settler attacks force 963 Palestinians out of West Bank homes since Gaza war started

The Israeli human rights organization B'Tselem says hundreds of Palestinians have fled their homes due to settler violence, and the United States is pressuring Israel on the issue.

www.al-monitor.com

Important and entirely relevant to recent events along with other historical inequities, the influence of foreign hands and other events. The backdrop against which the latest round of horrors can be better understood. The asymmetrical and excessive nature of this conflict and the brutal twisted viciousness of Hamas. The mutual portrayal of one another as sub human, deserving only of death. An instructive lesson for us all, at the very least.
On, how NOT to do things. Not if you want to retain your humanity.

 

[Revoltingest]

And in practice, tolerating the intolerant never works.

Is intolerance towards intolerant people shown to work?

 

[Little Dragon]

Good job it's just fantasy

Surely Biden would know that by doing so the US would have enraged many Islamic nations in the region, not least Iran. Much to Putin's delight. I could imagine Trump giving such an order though. I hope it's BS.

 

[Revoltingest]

Important and entirely relevant to recent events along with other historical inequities, the influence of foreign hands and other events. The backdrop against which the latest round of horrors can be better understood. The asymmetrical and excessive nature of this conflict and the brutal twisted viciousness of Hamas. The mutual portrayal of one another as sub human, deserving only of death. An instructive lesson for us all, at the very least.
On, how NOT to do things. Not if you want to retain your humanity.

Some of our most fervent fellow posters could
possibly learn some tolerance if the switched
their news sources. It could ease the self focused
parochial empathy...provide some for the "other".

NPR has actually been doing a good balanced
job of interviewing both Israeli & Palestinian
victims of violence & loss, each of whom expresses
sympathy for the other side, eschewing hostility,
& wanting only peaceful co-existence.

 

[Eddi]

. I hope it's BS.

@lokinforpeace should hope it's BS too or else she/he could have blood on their hands