hands up if you think cars are disgusting things

[Clizby Wampuscat]

Didn't you read my post? We are building those new green power plants. That will take time. But so will the switch to electric. No one is saying that everyone has to change now.

You even knew the answer so why ask the question?

Really? Sorry if I don't believe the propaganda.

How can we ever be 100% renewable if renewable sources are not a reliable source of energy?

Fossil fuel plants operate at greater than 80% installed capacity, solar and wind operate at less than 35% installed capacity. That means we need 2-3 times the installed capacity of wind and solar.

There is a lot of electrical storage technology that needs to be developed. Electrical storage is also more dangerous.

Initial capital costs of solar and wind with storage are 10 times that of fossil fuel initial capital costs for the same size plant. Life cycle costs are comparable but the initial cost can be a hindrance.

Where is the money and land coming from to go to 100% renewable energy?

We need to increase renewable energy production and technology while at the same time managing the decline when fossil fuels run out. Both are needed. But to manage a decline we need to talk about real facts.

 

[Twilight Hue]

So where will the energy come from to power these electric cars? People used about 100 billion gallons of gasoline in the US in 2020. At 120,000 btu/gallon that is 1.2 x 10^6 btu's. or 2.0 x 10^12 kWh. The US produced 4.3 x 10^12 kWh in 2022. So we would have to produce 150% of all production in the US to power these cars. Then if we want all renewable energy we would need an additional 3 x 10^12 kWh. (Renewable now is only 30% in the US.) So we would need to build 5-6 times more renewable energy sources than we have today in the US just to power the cars with renewable energy. Of course you can check my numbers.

Not to mention just who exactly is going to pay for all the extra infrastructure? Where is all this material going to come from?


These people just simply don't think at all and have a total and complete lack of foresight as to the economic and material impact their haughty pie in the sky utopian dreams are.

Look at the frontrunner of EVs.. ....

Communist China.

Ooppsi daisyyyy!!!

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

Not to mention just who exactly is going to pay for all the extra infrastructure? Where is all this material going to come from?


These people just simply don't think at all and have a total and complete lack of foresight as to the economic and material impact their haughty pie in the sky utopian dreams are.

Look at the frontrunner of EVs.. ....

Communist China.

Ooppsi daisyyyy!!!

I am on board with renewable energy, but we need to be real about what we want to do. Operate on facts not hope.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Really? Sorry if I don't believe the propaganda.

How can we ever be 100% renewable if renewable sources are not a reliable source of energy?

Fossil fuel plants operate at greater than 80% installed capacity, solar and wind operate at less than 35% installed capacity. That means we need 2-3 times the installed capacity of wind and solar.

There is a lot of electrical storage technology that needs to be developed. Electrical storage is also more dangerous.

Initial capital costs of solar and wind with storage are 10 times that of fossil fuel initial capital costs for the same size plant. Life cycle costs are comparable but the initial cost can be a hindrance.

Where is the money and land coming from to go to 100% renewable energy?

We need to increase renewable energy production and technology while at the same time managing the decline when fossil fuels run out. Both are needed. But to manage a decline we need to talk about real facts.

Your complaints are without merit, and you have to know it. Yes, we will be building a lot more plants and storage devices will be developed.

What part of "There are not requiring everyone to go electric overnight." do you not understand?

As to the money you need to look at the cost over its lifetime. What are the fuel costs for a wind farm? What are they for a fossil fuel plant? That is where the main cost is going to come from fossil fuels.

And worse yet, what happens when we start to charge appropriate taxes for fossil fuels?

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

Your complaints are without merit, and you have to know it. Yes, we will be building a lot more plants and storage devices will be developed.

What part of "There are not requiring everyone to go electric overnight." do you not understand?

What is the timeline? I am saying no matter the timeline I don't think it is possible.

As to the money you need to look at the cost over its lifetime. What are the fuel costs for a wind farm? What are they for a fossil fuel plant? That is where the main cost is going to come from fossil fuels.

I said the life cycle costs are comparable. But when it costs 10 times the initial cost over a fossil fuel plant, that matters. Investors don't care as much about getting money back in 30 years if they can get it back in 10.

And worse yet, what happens when we start to charge appropriate taxes for fossil fuels?

Why are they not appropriate?

 

[Subduction Zone]

What is the timeline? I am saying no matter the timeline I don't think it is possible.

I am not sure, but that is why sometimes the government has to step in and help things along.

I said the life cycle costs are comparable. But when it costs 10 times the initial cost over a fossil fuel plant, that matters. Investors don't care as much about getting money back in 30 years if they can get it back in 10.

Again, this is an appropriate place for subsidies.

Why are they not appropriate?

AGW.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I am on board with renewable energy, but we need to be real about what we want to do. Operate on facts not hope.

I'm not against it either.

But the bottom line is alternative energy must be superior , or nobody with any common sense will ever want it or buy it save for the pathetically afflicted diehards who will simply force themselves to enjoy the worthless junk just to feed their self righteous egos alongside their peers.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I'm not against it either.

But the bottom line is alternative energy must be superior , or nobody with any common sense will ever want it or buy it save for the pathetically afflicted diehards who will simply force themselves to enjoy the worthless junk just to feed their self righteous egos alongside their peers.

It is better. The lifetime cost of renewables is far lower than fossil fuels already and getting cheaper every year. Meanwhile the cost of fossil fuels can only go up.

Renewable Power Generation Costs in 2021

IRENA's latest global cost study shows how the competitiveness of renewables continued amid the fossil fuel crisis and highlights cost trends for major renewable electricity sources.

www.irena.org

Offshore wind is the only one that is still slightly more expensive than oil. But oil will get more expensive as supplies continue to be used up. Wind will only get cheaper as technology improves. We are currently increasing new capacity more quickly than was set out in our goals for 2030:

Offshore Wind Can Lower Energy Prices and Beat Out Oil and Gas

Offshore wind lease sales are a significantly better use of ocean acreage than oil and gas—for energy consumers, taxpayers, and the climate.

www.americanprogress.org

Keep selling those buggy whips. I am sure that the horse and carriage will return.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

I am not sure, but that is why sometimes the government has to step in and help things along.

That will only inflate prices and corruption in my opinion.

Again, this is an appropriate place for subsidies.

You mean the taxpayer paying for these plants with no return on their money. No thanks, I am tired on my money going to failed green companies and projects that will never pay back.

I will give you an example. In 2011 the university I work for put in a solar array with federal assistance. The payback for the university was 10 years, the payback for the project was 53 years. The 80% life of the panels is 28 years. This makes no financial sense and was a waste of money for the taxpayer. This is irresponsible.

AGW.

What does this mean?

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

I'm not against it either.

But the bottom line is alternative energy must be superior , or nobody with any common sense will ever want it or buy it save for the pathetically afflicted diehards who will simply force themselves to enjoy the worthless junk just to feed their self righteous egos alongside their peers.

No need to insult people that are for renewable energy. We just disagree with them. The facts are on our side in my opinion so we just need to show them the facts.

 

[PureX]

There is clearly a big negative propaganda push going on right now against electric vehicles. And it doesn't take a genius to surmise who is behind it.

I think some of you are echoing it either intentionally, or in ignorance. Mostly because all the objections I am seeing are BS. I am also seeing phony reports of new miraculous automobile engines that run on water, or air, or some other magical source of fuel. I don't know who is pushing that nonsense but my guess is that AI has made producing this stuff easier and cheaper and we are going to see more and more of it until the people making it get bored, or the conglomerates pushing it suddenly find Jesus.