Has Greta studied this?

[Subduction Zone]

*jumps up and down with arms waving in the air*

PICK ME!
PICK ME!
I KNOW!!
​

Spoiler

Made Ya Look

Oh well. I guess that you are dammed if you do and dammed if you don't.

 

[oldbadger]

Are we supposed to recharge them overnight using solar power or hope that the wind blows so that we can get work the following morning?

It looks like the wheels are coming off already.

In 15 year's time battery technology will no doubt have doubled and redoubled. 15 years ago most ECs were using lead/acid cells.

Many long journeys will be unnecessary by 2035, and if you can think of ones which will still be needed, do tell. Obviously there are some, but not as many as now.

 

[oldbadger]

Off of your poor argument? They were not even on in the first place. There are quite a few ways to store solar power. I will let you think about it. I will even give you a clue to the number one way if you ask.

On the side of the debate, will hydrogen IC cars be CO2 free? I think that the running engine just emits water..... is that right?

 

[McBell]

Oh well. I guess that you are dammed if you do and dammed if you don't.

Here is my neck of the woods there are solar panels everywhere.
And guess what?
Several of the Amish around here have no electric service to their homes, but lights on at night.
So they must have found a way to get the solar panels to work off moonlight.
Thus making them Lunar panels....

 

[McBell]

Here is my neck of the woods there are solar panels everywhere.
And guess what?
Several of the Amish around here have no electric service to their homes, but lights on at night.
So they must have found a way to get the solar panels to work off moonlight.
Thus making them Lunar panels....

STOP THE PRESSES!!!
I remember 40 years ago in school we made a clock run off of a potato...

 

[Subduction Zone]

On the side of the debate, will hydrogen IC cars be CO2 free? I think that the running engine just emits water..... is that right?

Yes, but hydrogen presents all sorts of troubles to IC engines. You might want to Google search "Hydrogen embrittlement". Odds are that if hydrogen is used to store power that it will be used in cars with electric fuel cells rather than IC engines. That is rather promising technology since IC is an extremely inefficient process.

@Notanumber 's source was correct that one can store far more energy chemically with fossil fuels than with batteries. But electricity is also several times more efficient so the energy that one does store in a battery goes quite a bit further. It is never quite as simple as it looks at first.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Here is my neck of the woods there are solar panels everywhere.
And guess what?
Several of the Amish around here have no electric service to their homes, but lights on at night.
So they must have found a way to get the solar panels to work off moonlight.
Thus making them Lunar panels....

The Amish may be cheating and tapping into the grid. They may feel that it is okay as long as they do not use more than they can make. But there are rather low tech ways to store electrical power. I gave you the clue that I was going to give @Notanumber . Hint number two, there were no spelling errors in Hint number one.

 

[McBell]

The Amish may be cheating and tapping into the grid. They may feel that it is okay as long as they do not use more than they can make. But there are rather low tech ways to store electrical power. I gave you the clue that I was going to give @Notanumber . Hint number two, there were no spelling errors in Hint number one.

Some of them are.
But then, some are getting paid by the local electric company for pushing power their way.
Granted it is not much, less than $30 a month in all the ones who shared the paperwork with me.
But that is far better than paying out....
Of course, they spent quite a chunk of change getting their systems up and running.

 

[Notanumber]

One of my customers let me drive his BMW i3 and I was impressed by its acceleration but its carrying capacity is nowhere near, what I require.

This is why I bought an estate car.

If Mazda ever produce an EV version of the 6 estate, it will be interesting to compare its load capacity with the ICE version.

In addition, I tow which is something not many EV’s are capable of doing.

What is the range of an EV towing a sizeable caravan?

 

[McBell]

One of my customers let me drive his BMW i3 and I was impressed by its acceleration but its carrying capacity is nowhere near, what I require.

This is why I bought an estate car.

If Mazda ever produce an EV version of the 6 estate, it will be interesting to compare its load capacity with the ICE version.

In addition, I tow which is something not many EV’s are capable of doing.

What is the range of an EV towing a sizeable caravan?

 

[Notanumber]

That would be out of the price range of your average motorist and what is its carbon footprint during production?

I wonder how long it took to recharge after travelling a few hundred yards.

At present, we do not need a monster truck to pull a sizeable caravan over long distances and at decent speeds.

 

[McBell]

That would be out of the price range of your average motorist and what is its carbon footprint during production?

I wonder how long it took to recharge after travelling a few hundred yards.

At present, we do not need a monster truck to pull a sizeable caravan over long distances and at decent speeds.

I personally find it rather annoying that companies brag about towing capacity and load capacity and all the little extras, but seem to forget to mention things like charge time, how long and or far between charges, price ranges...

 

[oldbadger]

Yes, but hydrogen presents all sorts of troubles to IC engines. You might want to Google search "Hydrogen embrittlement". Odds are that if hydrogen is used to store power that it will be used in cars with electric fuel cells rather than IC engines. That is rather promising technology since IC is an extremely inefficient process.

@Notanumber 's source was correct that one can store far more energy chemically with fossil fuels than with batteries. But electricity is also several times more efficient so the energy that one does store in a battery goes quite a bit further. It is never quite as simple as it looks at first.

All fair enough.
But even after 2035, and later still when the remaining IC cars are taxed off the road, some emergency service, military service, industrial/commercial/farming and transport service vehicles may need power plants which can run further for longer etc etc
Electric motors are brilliant for sheer gut-hauling torque power, but some special services may need 'endurance' vehicles. And so cleaner kinds of IC engine could be useful.

When lead-free petrol was introduced in the 80's many drivers went straight across to it, totally unaware of the consequences of running engines which needed leaded fuel to lubricate valve and cam systems, and it took time for the message to get round that lead-free fuel smashed up engines not designed to run lead-free. We don't have such problems now with modern power units.

And so, regardless of problems here-and-now, technology could and probably will develop IC units for urgent services, just as batteries and magnets will advance, electric-units will also continue to develop.

I'm really interested in the whole development that going on and hope I live to see lots more of it. 20 years ago I had an electric bike, but the one I have now would have seemed like science fiction back then. All very exciting.

 

[Subduction Zone]

All fair enough.
But even after 2035, and later still when the remaining IC cars are taxed off the road, some emergency service, military service, industrial/commercial/farming and transport service vehicles may need power plants which can run further for longer etc etc
Electric motors are brilliant for sheer gut-hauling torque power, but some special services may need 'endurance' vehicles. And so cleaner kinds of IC engine could be useful.

When lead-free petrol was introduced in the 80's many drivers went straight across to it, totally unaware of the consequences of running engines which needed leaded fuel to lubricate valve and cam systems, and it took time for the message to get round that lead-free fuel smashed up engines not designed to run lead-free. We don't have such problems now with modern power units.

And so, regardless of problems here-and-now, technology could and probably will develop IC units for urgent services, just as batteries and magnets will advance, electric-units will also continue to develop.

I'm really interested in the whole development that going on and hope I live to see lots more of it. 20 years ago I had an electric bike, but the one I have now would have seemed like science fiction back then. All very exciting.

It is clearly going to be a transition rather than a direct change. And if some vehicles do need IC's exceptions will be made. But electric vehicles already meet the needs of over 90% of the drivers today. I don't know of an electric vehicle that has a cruising range of less than one hundred miles and very few drivers go that far on anywhere near that on a daily basis.

As you to how big the carbon footprint of an electric vehicle is when made all I can say is "Assumption don't know" . It is probably larger than that of an IC vehicle, but I would bet that in the first 5,000 miles it would more than make up for that.

For those that like to drive I would say they should praise the electric vehicle since it will keep you on the road.

 

[Notanumber]

It is clearly going to be a transition rather than a direct change. And if some vehicles do need IC's exceptions will be made. But electric vehicles already meet the needs of over 90% of the drivers today. I don't know of an electric vehicle that has a cruising range of less than one hundred miles and very few drivers go that far on anywhere near that on a daily basis.

As you to how big the carbon footprint of an electric vehicle is when made all I can say is "Assumption don't know" . It is probably larger than that of an IC vehicle, but I would bet that in the first 5,000 miles it would more than make up for that.

For those that like to drive I would say they should praise the electric vehicle since it will keep you on the road.

What about the carbon footprint of all the infrastructure required to support them?

 

[Notanumber]

I have just heard on national radio that the national debt now stands at £75,000 per UK household.

Our new Conservative government is talking about raising taxes in the next Budget. The Conservatives used to be the party of low taxation.

No doubt, green taxes will be a convenient way of trying to reduce that national debt and pay for the entire infrastructure that we have been promised.

We already pay 20% on top of our electricity bill to subsidise green energy.

I can’t wait until March 11th to find out how much more we are going to get hammered.

 

[oldbadger]

I have just heard on national radio that the national debt now stands at £75,000 per UK household.

Our new Conservative government is talking about raising taxes in the next Budget. The Conservatives used to be the party of low taxation.

No doubt, green taxes will be a convenient way of trying to reduce that national debt and pay for the entire infrastructure that we have been promised.

We already pay 20% on top of our electricity bill to subsidise green energy.

I can’t wait until March 11th to find out how much more we are going to get hammered.

It's worth it for self subsistent energy.

 

[Notanumber]

It's worth it for self subsistent energy.

Tell that to the French.

How are we going to generate all this extra energy?

 

[oldbadger]

Tell that to the French.

How are we going to generate all this extra energy?

Solar farms like the one nearby.
Huge wind farms like the one just off shore.
Tidal generators being considered for high rise tidal areas.
Reservoir hydro-generator systems.

Effective power saving.
Better U values for new homes
Heat retentive glazing.

It goes on.

Why are you so determined to do nothing?

 

[Subduction Zone]

What about the carbon footprint of all the infrastructure required to support them?

What makes you think that there is not a similar one for IC autos? You are trying to say there would be a significant difference when there does not appear to be one.