Has Greta studied this?

[exchemist]

Or to mislead others on the basics of common sense...

Actually, "common sense" is notoriously not a reliable guide in science. But as it happens, there is nothing contradicting "common sense" in the science behind climate change. That is why it is so uncontroversial - leaving aside a few politically motivated fools.

 

[BSM1]

Actually, "common sense" is notoriously not a reliable guide in science. But as it happens, there is nothing contradicting "common sense" in the science behind climate change. That is why it is so uncontroversial - leaving aside a few politically motivated fools.

Okay, prove me wrong. Name (by name) one scientist I can look up who has said publicly that we are doomed due to "climate change".

 

[exchemist]

Okay, prove me wrong. Name (by name) one scientist I can look up who has said publicly that we are doomed due to "climate change".

Saying we are "doomed" is not part of the science - nor is it what Greta Thunberg has said, so far as I know. What she seems to have said is this: “Even though some scientists say that we have already passed the tipping point, you cannot think like that. You cannot think that we are doomed. We are not doomed unless we choose to be, unless we want to be. My hope is that we can fix it in time.”

Now, saying that man-made climate change being caused by emission of CO2 and other greenhouses gases such as CH4 is science. So are the forecasts of changes in sea level and weather patterns. So is the consequent likelihood of displacement of vast numbers of people in response. It is possible, though this is not hard science or certain, to foresee these changes are likely to be accompanied by malnutrition, death and war.

Whether this will constitute "doom" will depend on where you live. What is clear, though, is that in today's world, catastrophe in one place affects other places, in unpredictable ways.

 

[Prim969]

I had an unfortunate brush with the Alt Right a couple years back. Which admittedly might colour my perception, since I know the “dog whistles” as they’re so called. I am quite familiar with the deeply layered reactionary memes. Which are on full display on this thread. Unintended, I think.

But you do know that I’m Australian, right?Both left and right wing politics in my country are not the same for how they are casually used on this forum (mostly American based.) Both parties look conservative from where I stand and it’s not like I’m some super duper leftist hippie flower child either. Though perhaps I am by American standards, I don’t know.
Though I will admit that I have an attitude problem. I’m a sarcastic cynic trying to hide my soft side lol
I’m trying not to be as acidic, but my natural Australianstan snark gets in the way a lot of the time lol

I pay my bills, I work for a living. So I’m not sure where your beef is. We probably agree more than disagree on that particular issue

But I’m not concerned with what’s tried and true. Slavery was once tried and true, tradition doesn’t automatically equal the best. I’m concerned with the future and fossil fuels just won’t last forever. We need to start with solutions not just throwing up our hands because the oil barons might have to pay an extra buck or two (oh the horror!)
Conservatism only impedes progress because it’s too afraid of change. I say to hell with tradition, let’s try it.
Because at least we tried something instead just whining that it would cost us a few bucks. Avarice much?

Just in case anyone misunderstand my rather abrasive attitude here, I have nothing against people with conservative political values and opinions. Im just saying, I just don’t jive with tradition personally. But that’s just me

Also I enjoyed my meal very much, thank you.
I had pork spare ribs with plum sauce

Random you had a bad experience with the alt Right from a few yrs ago. I guess we all have had bad experiences somewhere in life. But we do learn to grow and try and put those bad experiences aside when evaluating reality and facts.in search of truth. Your from Australia and you pay your bills ( so what’s my beef.) Random my beef is this that when they used to shear the sheep they used leave the skin and not take the entire sheep for lamb chops . Do you think Australians are happy with the electricity prices they have to pay now. Most are not. Do you think Australians are happy with paying around $290 dollars for a 180 quality bensons & Hedges cigarettes that amounts to almost $50 dollars per pack all in the name of indexation and health taxes along with the cost of petrol and many other things . It comes down to a question of what is truth and to what is absolute greed and thievery. You did mention oil barons well let me remind you that there are also thieving electrical barons as well along with many more I only choose a few. As to fossil fuels there is no shortage actually many empty wells often replenish themselves the problem is greed and those who have monopolies on the market but it is still a much more cheaper and a viable economic choice when it comes to power. As to alternative electrical power. Random I don’t have a problem with that. It’s something you continue to test and trial but not at the economic well being of your own country. You say your not concerned with what’s tried and true and to hell with tradition or any reality check at all it seems to me with that matter. As to the the slavery you mentioned. Yes it was often a institutionalised way of life often it was the difference between being dead or staying alive. And often that was the only choice. At the same time many never even got that choice. The only reason we do not have today is because we have moved on to much better ideals like welfare. In Australia it’s Centrelink without that what would our options be? Probably much the same as in centuries past. Random I am not a gambler when it comes to the well being of others . I shall give you a example of what happens when you throw all caution to the wind. Look at Adolf Hitlers attack on Russia in 1941. Stalin has no intentions of attacking Germany anytime soon contrary to what some modern historians may think. He certainly wasn’t going to risk a war with a German war machine close to their supply lines But Hitler was the opposite, simply because he saw the Slavic peoples as a inferior race. He also believed in the occult teaching of the triumph of the will and not in reality. The logistics supplies alone for such a venture was almost impossible to sustain from the the very beginning especially as the distance grew further. In the first 3 months of the campaign Germany had lost 180 thousand of its youth that’s not including casualties that was the actual death count absolutely staggering. They reached none of their objectives. Neither Moscow Leningrad or Stalingrad. No thought for winter clothing as the winter mths closed in. The German soldier was gallant in his soldiery and determination but so were the Russians equally determined to lay down their lives for their land. Certainly No inferior race at all as the Germans found out. But getting to my point Hitler sacrificed his entire nation on a gamblers dice and not on the common sense of what the facts of a logistical reality demanded. Random it is much the same with the reality of coal when it comes to electrical power. Are you going to say to hell with coal powered power stations when the reality is that we must have for now to sustain our way of life. Random That is merely gamblers throw of the dice that you are offering the Australian people. To hell with tradition you say . Well ok than it shall be no more traditional Aussie pork spare ribs and plum sauce along with no beer or meat pies : ) maybe those Traditional values are more important than you realise in so many ways . I’ll stick with the plum sauce for now and maybe the apple sauce as well : )

 

[Prim969]

We have come to a point when it is not about cheap energy.
It is about the survival of The entire ecosystem including us and the lives of future generations.

The cost of energy is what it is. At the moment we are stoking our boilers with the lives of people and those of all living creatures. this is as costly as it can get.

Terry this has been repeated so many times I think learnt as a child in the late 90’s that the whole world was going to end because of our most horrid pollutions to the ozone layer. And the proof was there according to our teacher because the ozone hole at Antarctica we’re getting bigger. Anyway we no longer hear of it. Maybe simply because it’s a natural occurrence with the holes at both poles naturally expanding and decreasing in size all depending on the year. To me personally it’s a rather dangerous weapon to be using future generations at the expense of the present especially when much of the evidence is challenged and controversial. I mean making the present people suffer on assumptions or maybe someone’s agenda. There is really no just reason for making good reliable energy so much more expensive in using alternative unreliable power sources.

 

[Tambourine]

Okay, prove me wrong. Name (by name) one scientist I can look up who has said publicly that we are doomed due to "climate change".

List of authors of Climate Change 2007: The Physical Science Basis - Wikipedia

Here is a summary of the 2007 report they have collaborated on, which includes predictions on the possible impact of climate change.

Here is the more recent 2014 report, or rather, the section dealing with the impact of climate change.
Unfortunately, I could not find a list of authors and scientific contributors, so that's probably not good enough for you.

 

[Tambourine]

Terry this has been repeated so many times I think learnt as a child in the late 90’s that the whole world was going to end because of our most horrid pollutions to the ozone layer. And the proof was there according to our teacher because the ozone hole at Antarctica we’re getting bigger. Anyway we no longer hear of it. Maybe simply because it’s a natural occurrence with the holes at both poles naturally expanding and decreasing in size all depending on the year.

We don't hear about it because the ozone holes are no longer considered newsworthy. They very much still exist.

Fortunately, widespread bans on CFC have managed to keep them largely stable, but I find it a really strange way of thinking to conclude that this means they weren't important. Australian still has one of the highest rates of skin cancer in the world, in part because of that ozone hole that hasn't gone away despite our best efforts.

To me personally it’s a rather dangerous weapon to be using future generations at the expense of the present especially when much of the evidence is challenged and controversial. I mean making the present people suffer on assumptions or maybe someone’s agenda. There is really no just reason for making good reliable energy so much more expensive in using alternative unreliable power sources.

This cartoon seems appropriate here:

EDIT: We're already leaving our children a world whose climate and ecosystems have been dealt irreparable damage, with consequences that will likely be felt for generations to come. The least we can do at this point is to not willfully make things considerably worse by continueing to hold onto dangerous technologies from past centuries solely due to their profitability and convenience.

Also, I don't know about you, but, if our current life expectancy continues to hold, then I have good chances to live long enough to see the impact of climate change, and potentially, a runaway greenhouse effect. We will see negative consequences within a few decades, and in fact, are already starting to see the first signs of it, as wildfires, droughts, and floods are becoming increasingly common all over the world.

 

[Prim969]

We don't hear about it because the ozone holes are no longer considered newsworthy. They very much still exist.

Fortunately, widespread bans on CFC have managed to keep them largely stable, but I find it a really strange way of thinking to conclude that this means they weren't important. Australian still has one of the highest rates of skin cancer in the world, in part because of that ozone hole that hasn't gone away despite our best efforts.


This cartoon seems appropriate here:

EDIT: We're already leaving our children a world whose climate and ecosystems have been dealt irreparable damage, with consequences that will likely be felt for generations to come. The least we can do at this point is to not willfully make things considerably worse by continueing to hold onto dangerous technologies from past centuries solely due to their profitability and convenience.

Also, I don't know about you, but, if our current life expectancy continues to hold, then I will live long enough to see the impact of climate change, and potentially, a runaway greenhouse effect. We will see negative consequences within a few decades, and in fact, are already starting to see the first signs of it, as wildfires, droughts, and floods are becoming increasingly common all over the world.

Tambourine as I said the ozone holes do vary in size depending on the year sometimes bigger sometimes smaller and sometimes not at all. It’s a natural occurrence at least for as long as we have been able to observe. Once that was realised. Thats probably the real reason you don’t hear so much about it on the news anymore . And the reality of it is that its just a phenomenon of how ozone holes function certainly nothing to do with man made pollution. And certainly not with what was being claimed back than. In a few decades you say we will see many natural disasters. Yes that’s right. But do remember when the kettle is boiling the whistle blows and lets out steam and our incredible earth seems to right itself once more in the the same way.. We have had mini ice ages not so long ago in Europe and varying hotter climate changes as well. Climate change is out of our hands we have no control over how nature works. That’s the reality of the matter. if your saying that 8 billion people that could well fit into the size of New Zealand quite comfortably can effect the future climate of the entire world so drastically I simply do not see how. As to skin cancer we are in a rather hot climate at times. And we also have a infatuation of roasting ourselves out apon the beach for too long that does not help matters as well

 

[SomeRandom]

Random you had a bad experience with the alt Right from a few yrs ago. I guess we all have had bad experiences somewhere in life. But we do learn to grow and try and put those bad experiences aside when evaluating reality and facts.in search of truth. Your from Australia and you pay your bills ( so what’s my beef.) Random my beef is this that when they used to shear the sheep they used leave the skin and not take the entire sheep for lamb chops . Do you think Australians are happy with the electricity prices they have to pay now. Most are not. Do you think Australians are happy with paying around $290 dollars for a 180 quality bensons & Hedges cigarettes that amounts to almost $50 dollars per pack all in the name of indexation and health taxes along with the cost of petrol and many other things . It comes down to a question of what is truth and to what is absolute greed and thievery. You did mention oil barons well let me remind you that there are also thieving electrical barons as well along with many more I only choose a few. As to fossil fuels there is no shortage actually many empty wells often replenish themselves the problem is greed and those who have monopolies on the market but it is still a much more cheaper and a viable economic choice when it comes to power. As to alternative electrical power. Random I don’t have a problem with that. It’s something you continue to test and trial but not at the economic well being of your own country. You say your not concerned with what’s tried and true and to hell with tradition or any reality check at all it seems to me with that matter. As to the the slavery you mentioned. Yes it was often a institutionalised way of life often it was the difference between being dead or staying alive. And often that was the only choice. At the same time many never even got that choice. The only reason we do not have today is because we have moved on to much better ideals like welfare. In Australia it’s Centrelink without that what would our options be? Probably much the same as in centuries past. Random I am not a gambler when it comes to the well being of others . I shall give you a example of what happens when you throw all caution to the wind. Look at Adolf Hitlers attack on Russia in 1941. Stalin has no intentions of attacking Germany anytime soon contrary to what some modern historians may think. He certainly wasn’t going to risk a war with a German war machine close to their supply lines But Hitler was the opposite, simply because he saw the Slavic peoples as a inferior race. He also believed in the occult teaching of the triumph of the will and not in reality. The logistics supplies alone for such a venture was almost impossible to sustain from the the very beginning especially as the distance grew further. In the first 3 months of the campaign Germany had lost 180 thousand of its youth that’s not including casualties that was the actual death count absolutely staggering. They reached none of their objectives. Neither Moscow Leningrad or Stalingrad. No thought for winter clothing as the winter mths closed in. The German soldier was gallant in his soldiery and determination but so were the Russians equally determined to lay down their lives for their land. Certainly No inferior race at all as the Germans found out. But getting to my point Hitler sacrificed his entire nation on a gamblers dice and not on the common sense of what the facts of a logistical reality demanded. Random it is much the same with the reality of coal when it comes to electrical power. Are you going to say to hell with coal powered power stations when the reality is that we must have for now to sustain our way of life. Random That is merely gamblers throw of the dice that you are offering the Australian people. To hell with tradition you say . Well ok than it shall be no more traditional Aussie pork spare ribs and plum sauce along with no beer or meat pies : ) maybe those Traditional values are more important than you realise in so many ways . I’ll stick with the plum sauce for now and maybe the apple sauce as well : )

First of all, no one pays 290 dollars for B and H Carton. I worked the ciggies counter for 5 years as my first job. Wtf are you talking about?

Either way you are paying to put cancer
into your lungs, so you have none of my sympathy no matter the cost. Geez!
That’s tax for you, son. I’d say a famous Aussie phrase here, but RF Regulations forbid me from swearing, mate.

Do you actually know the worth of the Aussie dollar relative to our economy??? It sounds like you do not. 300 bucks for a carton of ciggies is not something that would happen regularly. Least of all during the current pandemic. Maybe a few expensive 50 pack cartons, I dunno
So please forgive me if I do not trust your hyperbolic economic predictions from here on out.

And yet European countries have made strides with non fossil fuel. You’re sure you’re not clinging onto the old dying industry? I haven’t considered fossil fuels as viable for years. Because as far as I can see, it’s a dying game.
But What do the experts say? And I mean actual experts not paid mouthpieces for the tycoons?

I sincerely hope you didn’t try to pull a Godwin fallacy on me, with the Hitler thing. I think you’re far too above such nonsense, but your addition of Hitler to the conversation does suspiciously look like it. But I must be mistaken, of course. You’d never pull that on me?

Boomers complain about spending more, but who do you think has to live with their consequences? Us mellenials. So excuse me if I’m not concerned about experimental solutions costing too much. The dollar buys more for me than it did for my father, who was born in the 1920s.
I’ll grant you that the current pandemic has altered that a bit. But I’d rather say to my grandchildren that we tried rather than admit we submitted to greed like the lowly disgusting humans we are. Eh?
Apple sauce is boring as sin, give me plum sauce any day

 

[exchemist]

Terry this has been repeated so many times I think learnt as a child in the late 90’s that the whole world was going to end because of our most horrid pollutions to the ozone layer. And the proof was there according to our teacher because the ozone hole at Antarctica we’re getting bigger. Anyway we no longer hear of it. Maybe simply because it’s a natural occurrence with the holes at both poles naturally expanding and decreasing in size all depending on the year. To me personally it’s a rather dangerous weapon to be using future generations at the expense of the present especially when much of the evidence is challenged and controversial. I mean making the present people suffer on assumptions or maybe someone’s agenda. There is really no just reason for making good reliable energy so much more expensive in using alternative unreliable power sources.

Several misapprehensions here.

1) The hole in the ozone layer is nothing to do with climate change. Destruction of the ozone layer leads to greater penetration to the earth's surface of harmful UV light from the sun. Quite different.

2) The hole in the ozone layer was essentially fixed by intergovernmental agreement, finalised in the Montreal Protocol, whereby all countries agreed to phase out the use of CFC and HCFC refrigerants, which science had identified were the man-made cause of the problem: Montreal Protocol - Wikipedia

3) The evidence for man-made climate change is no longer seriously controversial, as far as the science goes. Such "controversy" as remains is nearly all political, rather than scientific, due to the implications the countermeasures have for society. This is especially so for the US economy, which is (i) egregiously wasteful in its use of energy and (ii) subject to a a rare degree of rejection of science, because of its obsession with a perverted and extreme form of individualism.

 

[Tambourine]

Tambourine as I said the ozone holes do vary in size depending on the year sometimes bigger sometimes smaller and sometimes not at all. It’s a natural occurrence at least for as long as we have been able to observe. Once that was realised. Thats probably the real reason you don’t hear so much about it on the news anymore . And the reality of it is that its just a phenomenon of how ozone holes function certainly nothing to do with man made pollution. And certainly not with what was being claimed back than. In a few decades you say we will see many natural disasters. Yes that’s right..

It would be helpful if you had any actual links to show what you are talking about, because I haven't come across any articles mentioning ozone holes closing or disappearing entirely.

As the link I provided shows, even with variations, Antarctica's ozone levels are on a downward trend. What do you think of that?

But do remember when the kettle is boiling the whistle blows and lets out steam and our incredible earth seems to right itself once more in the the same way.. We have had mini ice ages not so long ago in Europe and varying hotter climate changes as well. Climate change is out of our hands we have no control over how nature works. That’s the reality of the matter.

I honestly think that early environmentalist rhetoric has worked to the detriment of its overall cause by claiming that we are trying to "protect the environment" or "save the Earth". Working against climate change is not about preserving Earth, and never was. Earth is a big rock that won't care what happens to it. Human civilization, however, is far, far more fragile than the Earth it is built on. You mention the Little Ice Age - it wiped out Viking colonies in Greenland and caused widespread famines in continental Europe that likely contributed to the massive death toll of the Bubonic Plague.

Climate change will bring changes of that level to us, and potentially worse. And this is not a natural occurence any more - if it were, then we would actually scheduled for a cooling period right about now. But with our rampant pumping of CO2 into the atmosphere, we managed to completely reverse that into a general warming trend, one that has the potential to turn into a runaway greenhouse effect, and effectively become irreversible.

if your saying that 8 billion people that could well fit into the size of New Zealand quite comfortably can effect the future climate of the entire world so drastically I simply do not see how.

There is a wealth of information out there about the causes of climate change and the likely future impacts, and you are ostensibly taking part in discussions on the subject, so sorry but I find your statement here a little bit incredulous. At this point, climate change is settled science and an accepted fact, and there is a wealth of information out there if you're actually interested in learning about it.

You can follow the links I posted in a previous post if you actually want to learn more about it.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Terry this has been repeated so many times I think learnt as a child in the late 90’s that the whole world was going to end because of our most horrid pollutions to the ozone layer. And the proof was there according to our teacher because the ozone hole at Antarctica we’re getting bigger. Anyway we no longer hear of it. Maybe simply because it’s a natural occurrence with the holes at both poles naturally expanding and decreasing in size all depending on the year. To me personally it’s a rather dangerous weapon to be using future generations at the expense of the present especially when much of the evidence is challenged and controversial. I mean making the present people suffer on assumptions or maybe someone’s agenda. There is really no just reason for making good reliable energy so much more expensive in using alternative unreliable power sources.

Your argument fails because the hole in the Ozone reversed because the cause CFC's were banned world wide.
Global warming can be reversed by tackling the causes, however difficult that is.
The new green industries are proving very cost effective and creating jobs and new better ways of life for thousands of people.
It is not making energy more expensive in most countries. Where taxation is probably the biggest factor in the price of oil.

By far the major cause in the cost of energy is inflation.

 

[Prim969]

First of all, no one pays 290 dollars for B and H Carton. I worked the ciggies counter for 5 years as my first job. Wtf are you talking about?

Either way you are paying to put cancer
into your lungs, so you have none of my sympathy no matter the cost. Geez!
That’s tax for you, son. I’d say a famous Aussie phrase here, but RF Regulations forbid me from swearing, mate.

Do you actually know the worth of the Aussie dollar relative to our economy??? It sounds like you do not. 300 bucks for a carton of ciggies is not something that would happen regularly. Least of all during the current pandemic. Maybe a few expensive 50 pack cartons, I dunno
So please forgive me if I do not trust your hyperbolic economic predictions from here on out.

And yet European countries have made strides with non fossil fuel. You’re sure you’re not clinging onto the old dying industry? I haven’t considered fossil fuels as viable for years. Because as far as I can see, it’s a dying game.
But What do the experts say? And I mean actual experts not paid mouthpieces for the tycoons?

I sincerely hope you didn’t try to pull a Godwin fallacy on me, with the Hitler thing. I think you’re far too above such nonsense, but your addition of Hitler to the conversation does suspiciously look like it. But I must be mistaken, of course. You’d never pull that on me?

Boomers complain about spending more, but who do you think has to live with their consequences? Us mellenials. So excuse me if I’m not concerned about experimental solutions costing too much. The dollar buys more for me than it did for my father, who was born in the 1920s.
I’ll grant you that the current pandemic has altered that a bit. But I’d rather say to my grandchildren that we tried rather than admit we submitted to greed like the lowly disgusting humans we are. Eh?
Apple sauce is boring as sin, give me plum sauce any day

Random as I said the benson & hedges 30 pack at 6 packs per carton is nearly 290 dollars a carton I have a friend a work who smokes the brand though I did check with him seems that are now 4 packets of 30 per carton now. And that’s only to make the price more bearable at around the 200 dollar mark for 4 instead of 290 dollars for a pack of six. Sadly it’s a reality I’m not sure why you doubt what I say. As to the example of Hitler of being a gamblers choice it’s much the same with the effects of climate change that you are blaming apon the human race . I’m certainly not willing to give up my freedom or common sense with what your claiming . As to Clinging onto dying industries. I simply put my trust in reality first with what works and not with pipe dreams. It’s past midnight I must sleep. Apple sauce with pork is just fine I’ve never had any complaints : )

 

[Prim969]

Your argument fails because the hole in the Ozone reversed because the cause CFC's were banned world wide.
Global warming can be reversed by tackling the causes, however difficult that is.
The new green industries are proving very cost effective and creating jobs and new better ways of life for thousands of people.
It is not making energy more expensive in most countries. Where taxation is probably the biggest factor in the price of oil.

By far the major cause in the cost of energy is inflation.

My argument was merely a reality because their was never a problem with the ozone holes to begin with. Just another fable to blame apon the human race.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Random as I said the benson & hedges 30 pack at 6 packs per carton is nearly 290 dollars a carton I have a friend a work who smokes the brand though I did check with him seems that are now 4 packets of 30 per carton now. And that’s only to make the price more bearable at around the 200 dollar mark for 4 instead of 290 dollars for a pack of six. Sadly it’s a reality I’m not sure why you doubt what I say. As to the example of Hitler of being a gamblers choice it’s much the same with the effects of climate change that you are blaming apon the human race . I’m certainly not willing to give up my freedom or common sense with what your claiming . As to Clinging onto dying industries. I simply put my trust in reality first with what works and not with pipe dreams. It’s past midnight I must sleep. Apple sauce with pork is just fine I’ve never had any complaints : )

Smoking has killed more people than any other drug. So the higher the price the better for everyone.
However, no one I know smokes these days. Not many years ago it was nine out of ten.
Were I to walk the length of our high street the chances are that would not see any one smoking.

It is seen now for the unhealthy and antisocial addiction that it is.

However the price is what it is because people are prepared to pay it.

 

[Secret Chief]

For the hard of hearing I have bolded a few parts:

"Global warming is the ongoing rise of the average temperature of the Earth's climate systemand has been demonstrated by direct temperature measurements and by measurements of various effects of the warming. It is a major aspect of climate change which, in addition to rising global surface temperatures, also includes its effects, such as changes in precipitation. While there have been prehistoric periods of global warming, observed changes since the mid-20th century have been unprecedented in rate and scale.

The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) concluded that "human influence on climate has been the dominant cause of observed warming since the mid-20th century". These findings have been recognized by the national science academies of major nations and are not disputed by any scientific body of national or international standing. The largest human influence has been the emission of greenhouse gases, with over 90% of the impact from carbon dioxide and methane. Fossil fuel burning is the principal source of these gases, with agricultural emissions and deforestation also playing significant roles."

Global warming - Wikipedia

For a balanced view:
Trump doubts it.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

My argument was merely a reality because their was never a problem with the ozone holes to begin with. Just another fable to blame apon the human race.

.

Can't argue with a Science denier.
Very sad but true.

 

[exchemist]

My argument was merely a reality because their was never a problem with the ozone holes to begin with. Just another fable to blame apon the human race.

There most certainly was a problem with it, and it took international cooperation to deal with it, just as he is pointing out. The facts of this are not in serious dispute: Ozone depletion - Wikipedia

 

[Notanumber]

No. She is merely a spokesperson for climate scientists. Which she has herself stated many times.

But people who don't know what they're talking about seem to focus on her almost exclusively.
I personally suspect that's to some degree because she is an easy target, as they don't actually need to engage with the science in order to engage with her, and can go right to the personal attacks.

Climate scientists with any credibility would not need a child as a spokesperson.

Climate scientists of Patrick Moore’s calibre would find that embarrassing.

 

[Notanumber]

As far as the green movement is concerned, the elephant in the room is nuclear energy.

This is another topic that they would rather not discuss even though it makes much more sense than wind and solar.