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Has Greta studied this?

Tambourine

Well-Known Member
Climate scientists with any credibility would not need a child as a spokesperson.

Climate scientists of Patrick Moore’s calibre would find that embarrassing.
Patrick Moore's PhD was in Forest Biology, back in 1974. He stopped doing any sort of research when he became an activist for Greenpeace fulltime, which was back in 1976/1977.

These days, his trade is "PR consultant", and he works as a literal paid industry shill for the Heritage Foundation.
 
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Notanumber

A Free Man
Patrick Moore's PhD was in Forest Biology, back in 1974. He stopped doing any sort of research when he became an activist for Greenpeace fulltime, which was back in 1976/1977.

These days, his trade is "PR consultant", and he works as a literal paid industry shill for the Heritage Foundation.

If those reports were convincing they would not need the support of a child.
 

Prim969

Member
It would be helpful if you had any actual links to show what you are talking about, because I haven't come across any articles mentioning ozone holes closing or disappearing entirely.

As the link I provided shows, even with variations, Antarctica's ozone levels are on a downward trend. What do you think of that?


I honestly think that early environmentalist rhetoric has worked to the detriment of its overall cause by claiming that we are trying to "protect the environment" or "save the Earth". Working against climate change is not about preserving Earth, and never was. Earth is a big rock that won't care what happens to it. Human civilization, however, is far, far more fragile than the Earth it is built on. You mention the Little Ice Age - it wiped out Viking colonies in Greenland and caused widespread famines in continental Europe that likely contributed to the massive death toll of the Bubonic Plague.

Climate change will bring changes of that level to us, and potentially worse. And this is not a natural occurence any more - if it were, then we would actually scheduled for a cooling period right about now. But with our rampant pumping of CO2 into the atmosphere, we managed to completely reverse that into a general warming trend, one that has the potential to turn into a runaway greenhouse effect, and effectively become irreversible.


There is a wealth of information out there about the causes of climate change and the likely future impacts, and you are ostensibly taking part in discussions on the subject, so sorry but I find your statement here a little bit incredulous. At this point, climate change is settled science and an accepted fact, and there is a wealth of information out there if you're actually interested in learning about it.

You can follow the links I posted in a previous post if you actually want to learn more about it.
Tambourine world calamities never bring much happiness when Mother Nature makes her power known. Yes the mini ice ages in Europe did bring calamities and epidemics that you did mention. I’m also no science denier as someone did claim in a different post here. Anyway concerning the ozone depletion and the so called effects apon the environment. Well let’s look at some of the facts concerning this and what I was taught about the ozone depletion in Antarctica when at school. This is what we were generally taught to believe that man made CFC makes its way up into the stratosphere which is some 30km up. Apon reaching there the ultra violet radiation breaks up CFC molecules that than release chlorine which in turn becomes a monster eater of the ozone Layer. That is how it’s generally explained. But much was also left out as I discovered later in life . And that being that there is around 300 million tons of chlorine taken just from the sea alone evaporated from our oceans every year and much of that makes its way into the stratosphere via cyclones, hurricanes, tornadoes or bad storms. You also have volcanic activities. You have 11-36 million tons of chlorine entering the atmosphere from passively degassing volcanos alone. Not to mention the more fully active ones. You have Mt Erebus in the Antartica region that has been active for the past 100 yrs. In 1983 it ejected 370,000 tons of chlorine into the atmosphere just on its own for that year and maybe that does also have a part to play with the increased activity or decreased activity of how that affects the Antartica ozone rate and region. So Tambourine the point I’m trying to make is that when you compare let’s say around 1:1 million tons of CFC admissions entering into the atmosphere for one year of that era. Than it becomes a mere drop in the ocean when compared to the hundreds of millions of naturally produced chlorine that was already present long before CFC products was ever created. if the affects are as claimed life would have ceased to exist apon this planet for humans thousands of years ago especially with those percentage ratios don’t you think. That is of course if chlorine is the actual cause. The evidence seem to say otherwise because we are still here. That’s why I don’t believe CFC’s had anything to do with the matter. Only that it cost us all much in environmental taxes and legislation against perfectly safe products. .
 
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Notanumber

A Free Man
Have you actually read the reports I linked to earlier in this thread?

I could not find Michael Mann’s name listed yet he is one of the high priests of the climate change movement that is demanding that Planet of the Humans is removed from public viewing.

Climate experts call for 'dangerous' Michael Moore film to be taken down

If Moore’s film is dangerous, misleading and destructive, it should be easy for someone with Mann’s reputation to publically refute each and every one of Moore’s claims.

Censorship does not look good if you are claiming the moral high ground.
 

SomeRandom

Still learning to be wise
Staff member
Premium Member
Random as I said the benson & hedges 30 pack at 6 packs per carton is nearly 290 dollars a carton I have a friend a work who smokes the brand though I did check with him seems that are now 4 packets of 30 per carton now. And that’s only to make the price more bearable at around the 200 dollar mark for 4 instead of 290 dollars for a pack of six. Sadly it’s a reality I’m not sure why you doubt what I say. As to the example of Hitler of being a gamblers choice it’s much the same with the effects of climate change that you are blaming apon the human race . I’m certainly not willing to give up my freedom or common sense with what your claiming . As to Clinging onto dying industries. I simply put my trust in reality first with what works and not with pipe dreams. It’s past midnight I must sleep. Apple sauce with pork is just fine I’ve never had any complaints : )
Oh a carton, my apologies. Must have misunderstood you. I’ll blame the whisky lol. Yeah Cartons usually cost around 2 -3 hundred easily. And that’s the “pre mades” as I like to call them. With the “Rollies” as they’re known, you’d have to buy the papers and filters on top of that. Saw many a customer budget out their supplies for that.
And that was ten years ago, it’s probably more now because the price keeps slowly creeping upwards. The amount of people who would literally return food just to buy a pack, never mind a carton though. Sheesh. And I’m talking essentials, not frivolous chocolates or something. Like bread and milk and stuff. My god!
And tobacco sales are a lot more strict than groceries, so I couldn’t even pretend to lose a gold coin here and there like on a normal register.
But like I said, they’re cancer sticks. So I mean they have none of my sympathies. People want to kill themselves that’s their business. But since second hand smoke can affect other people and not just said smoker, they can foot the bill, so to speak.
Gotta find money for our hospitals somewhere, eh?


Greener energy has been a reality for decades though? And it’s only growing. Putting trust in a reality on its way out doesn’t seem particularly wise to me. And I’m not convinced it is merely dreaming. That’s what they said about the first car or boat or steam engine. Everything we’ve done has once been nothing more than a pipedream. You’re concerned with a bit of extra tax, I’m more concerned with unknown consequences of mass extinction of fauna. If I have to pay a bit extra to bring humanity into the next phase of our development, so be it. I just hope the oil tycoons have to chip in as well. Greedy sods.

We have to keep moving forward and sometimes that means exploring other avenues. Even if they seem less than fruitful at first. You just have to keep going, because sooner or later fossil fuels will collapse. It might not be in either of our lifetimes. But thats no reason to slack off. The future is always about change and it always will have pessimists saying we can’t do it. And we do it anyway, right? So let’s look towards what we can make for ourselves instead of simply relying on what’s familiar. And we will still be using fossil fuels, I doubt we will replace it all at once. But we can’t just sit on our hands and lament when it eventually collapses.
Embrace the change, mate. It’s more exciting.

Apple sauce on pork is fine, but plum sauce is better ;)
 
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Prim969

Member
Oh a carton, my apologies. Must have misunderstood you. I’ll blame the whisky lol. Yeah Cartons usually cost around 2 -3 hundred easily. And that’s the “pre mades” as I like to call them. With the “Rollies” as they’re known, you’d have to buy the papers and filters on top of that. Saw many a customer budget out their supplies for that.
And that was ten years ago, it’s probably more now because the price keeps slowly creeping upwards. The amount of people who would literally return food just to buy a pack, never mind a carton though. Sheesh. And I’m talking essentials, not frivolous chocolates or something. Like bread and milk and stuff. My god!
And tobacco sales are a lot more strict than groceries, so I couldn’t even pretend to lose a gold coin here and there like on a normal register.
But like I said, they’re cancer sticks. So I mean they have none of my sympathies. People want to kill themselves that’s their business. But since second hand smoke can affect other people and not just said smoker, they can foot the bill, so to speak.
Gotta find money for our hospitals somewhere, eh?

Greener energy has been a reality for decades though? And it’s only growing. Putting trust in a reality on its way out doesn’t seem particularly wise to me.

Apple sauce on pork is fine, but plum sauce is better ;)
Random does all that revenue really go to just hospitals it certainly doesn’t. I think our outlook towards smokers is very different I don’t treat smokers as 2nd class citizens they have a guest area if they do choose to enjoy the smoke. Maybe you can begin a moral crusade apon alcohol as well or maybe fast food. It’s really not my right for me to do so simply because those are things they legally enjoy and it still doesn’t give me the right to rob people blind. But your ok with that because it’s not coming out of your pocket. So just screw them as much as you like. My God how brain washed and self centred you have become. It’s no wonder the world is becoming a more and more tragic and dived place. Divide and conquer does come to mind.
 

SomeRandom

Still learning to be wise
Staff member
Premium Member
Random does all that revenue really go to just hospitals it certainly doesn’t. I think our outlook towards smokers is very different I don’t treat smokers as 2nd class citizens they have a guest area if they do choose to enjoy the smoke. Maybe you can begin a moral crusade apon alcohol as well or maybe fast food. It’s really not my right for me to do so simply because those are things they legally enjoy and it still doesn’t give me the right to rob people blind. But your ok with that because it’s not coming out of your pocket. So just screw them as much as you like. My God how brain washed and self centred you have become. It’s no wonder the world is becoming a more and more tragic and dived place. Divide and conquer does come to mind.
Whoa, where’d you get any of that from my post?
I would never even dream of campaigning to stop the sale of tobacco. I sold them for years without batting an eyelash. I felt bad for some of the kids who didn’t get a lollipop because their parents needed to afford a 20 pack, though. If it were up to me I’d give the customer both and look the other way. Ya know?
All I said was I don’t have any sympathies for the increasing price, because literally everything slowly increases in price. Even bread costs more than it did 10 years ago.
I even said that choosing to smoke is entirely their business.
And obviously the revenue for hospitals doesn’t only come from tobacco taxes, nor do those taxes only go towards hospitals. I was being cheeky. Your profile says you’re from Australiastan, so I just assumed you’d pick up on my snark.
We have universal health care paid for by all our taxes. You should know that. It’s not like the US, we try to take care of each other, yes including the smokers. Who probably will have to use public hospitals due to their habits, let’s be real here. Which I help pay for and do so gladly. The hell did you get treating them as second class citizens from?

If my taxes help save the life of a smoker or addict or non smoker or drinker or whatever the hell, then that’s money very well spent. It means the safety net is working. Though obviously there is room for improvement.

People are perfectly free to kill themselves however they please. Granted I agree the cost of ciggies is a bit high. But so is good quality alcohol, so I’m in the same boat. I spend way too much on poison each week. But if my revenue goes back to roads or hospitals or whatever, then I just have to suck it up. Because that’s just how capitalist society rolls, I guess
Saying that though, with everyone feeling the affects of lockdown, I wouldn’t object to a decrease in price for tobacco and alcohol. People need their vices more than ever and the poor saps who can’t work, man. They should get some relief. Right?

Speaking of booze, I’m a frequent drinker, why would I campaign for prohibition? Hell I think the war on drugs is an abject failure and would prefer legalised drugs and rehabilitation take the place of treating addicts as criminals.

You focused on that instead of the issue we were originally discussing, the future.
Divide and conquer indeed.
 
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Prim969

Member
Whoa, where’d you get any of that from my post?
I would never even dream of campaigning to stop the sale of tobacco. I sold them for years without batting an eyelash. I felt bad for some of the kids who didn’t get a lollipop because their parents needed to afford a 20 pack, though. If it were up to me I’d give the customer both.
All I said was I don’t have any sympathies for the increasing price, because literally everything slowly increases in price. Even bread costs more than it did 10 years ago.
I even said that choosing to smoke is entirely their business.
And obviously the revenue for hospitals doesn’t only come from tobacco taxes, nor do those taxes only go towards hospitals. I was being cheeky. Your profile says you’re from Australiastan, so I just assumed you’d pick up on my snark.
We have universal health care paid for by all our taxes. You should know that. It’s not like the US, we try to take care of each other, yes including the smokers. Who probably will have to use public hospitals due to their habits, let’s be real here. Which I help pay for and do so gladly. The hell did you get treating them as second class citizens from?

If my taxes help save the life of a smoker or addict or non smoker or drinker or whatever the hell, then that’s money very well spent. It means the safety net is working. Though obviously there is room for improvement.

People are perfectly free to kill themselves however they please. Granted I agree the cost of ciggies is a bit high. But so is good quality alcohol, so I’m in the same boat. I spend way too much on poison each week. But if my revenue goes back to roads or hospitals or whatever, then I just suck it up. Because that’s just how capitalist society rolls, I guess

Speaking of booze, I’m a frequent drinker, why would I campaign for prohibition? Hell I think the war on drugs is an abject failure and would prefer legalised drugs and rehabilitation take the place of treating addicts as criminals.

You focused on that instead of the issue we were originally discussing, the future.
Divide and conquer indeed.
Random I do understand you some better now. And maybe I did misunderstand some of what you wrote also I do agree the discussion has become some off topic So yes best we allow the original post discussion to flow. Hope you continue to enjoy your plum sauce .
 

SomeRandom

Still learning to be wise
Staff member
Premium Member
Random I do understand you some better now. And maybe I did misunderstand some of what you wrote also I do agree the discussion has become some off topic So yes best we allow the original post discussion to flow. Hope you continue to enjoy your plum sauce .
No worries, mate. I probably should have indicated more clearly that I was being facetious. My sense of humour is rather dark and often based on insults, so I sometimes come across more crass than intended.
I hope you enjoy some pork and apple sauce :)
 

BSM1

What? Me worry?
Saying we are "doomed" is not part of the science - nor is it what Greta Thunberg has said, so far as I know. What she seems to have said is this: “Even though some scientists say that we have already passed the tipping point, you cannot think like that. You cannot think that we are doomed. We are not doomed unless we choose to be, unless we want to be. My hope is that we can fix it in time.”

Now, saying that man-made climate change being caused by emission of CO2 and other greenhouses gases such as CH4 is science. So are the forecasts of changes in sea level and weather patterns. So is the consequent likelihood of displacement of vast numbers of people in response. It is possible, though this is not hard science or certain, to foresee these changes are likely to be accompanied by malnutrition, death and war.

Whether this will constitute "doom" will depend on where you live. What is clear, though, is that in today's world, catastrophe in one place affects other places, in unpredictable ways.


Okay...give me the name of one scientist that has said we "...have reached the tipping point..'.


List of authors of Climate Change 2007: The Physical Science Basis - Wikipedia

Here is a summary of the 2007 report they have collaborated on, which includes predictions on the possible impact of climate change.

Here is the more recent 2014 report, or rather, the section dealing with the impact of climate change.
Unfortunately, I could not find a list of authors and scientific contributors, so that's probably not good enough for you.



Check,,,your move..
 

Notanumber

A Free Man
It gets worse.

This new religion is getting out of hand.


Silence is golden unless you have fallen for their propaganda.

They do not understand that it is good to talk.
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
Okay...give me the name of one scientist that has said we "...have reached the tipping point..'.






Check,,,your move..
Why? Greta Thunberg says she does not think we have reached it. So it's a red herring.
 
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Prim969

Member
I this one of the videos that the German authorities are calling to be removed from YouTube?


If so, I wonder why?
Notanunmber quite a brave young lady seems all she is doing is expressing her right to disagree. It’s nice to know that we still have such No Nonsense videos around so we can evaluate for ourselves.
 

Tambourine

Well-Known Member
I this one of the videos that the German authorities are calling to be removed from YouTube?

If so, I wonder why?
  1. Which German authorities are calling for this video to be removed?
  2. What exactly have these specific authorities said?
  3. What reasons do they give why it needs to be removed?
  4. Where did you hear or read that these specific authorities are calling for the removal of this specific video?
  5. How reliable is this source? What's their track record for providing reliable and accurate information on the workings of these specific German authorities?
 
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