• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Have the Canadians gone completely insane? Gun paranoia in full force.

work in progress

Well-Known Member
Two wrongs don't make a right. Didn't your mama ever teach you that?

:facepalm:
The first wrong is taking one story about how one school and one police official handled what may be a misunderstanding, and using that to smear an entire nation of over 30 million.
The second wrong is quoting a Sun newspaper or any Sun media as a source for any information, other than sports highlights and Sunshine girls. Right now, the real no.1 national story in Canada is how evidence is slowly growing that our Federal Government conducted a Nixonian dirty tricks campaign to secure their goal of winning a majority government in the last election. And the last two issues of the Toronto Sun newspaper that are left lying around in our cafeteria at work, have had absolutely nothing to say about the robo-calls or any aspect of the scandal. And that is because Sunmedia is not an information service, but is a propaganda arm of a few oligarchs who run our economy, and the Conservative Party is their political tool to get the policies and legislation that they want.
 

Kathryn

It was on fire when I laid down on it.
The first wrong is taking one story about how one school and one police official handled what may be a misunderstanding, and using that to smear an entire nation of over 30 million.
The second wrong is quoting a Sun newspaper or any Sun media as a source for any information, other than sports highlights and Sunshine girls. Right now, the real no.1 national story in Canada is how evidence is slowly growing that our Federal Government conducted a Nixonian dirty tricks campaign to secure their goal of winning a majority government in the last election. And the last two issues of the Toronto Sun newspaper that are left lying around in our cafeteria at work, have had absolutely nothing to say about the robo-calls or any aspect of the scandal. And that is because Sunmedia is not an information service, but is a propaganda arm of a few oligarchs who run our economy, and the Conservative Party is their political tool to get the policies and legislation that they want.

Oh you must mean like MSNBC and Fox News pretend to be objective news sources.

"Canadians - they're just like us...except not."
 

Kathryn

It was on fire when I laid down on it.
FWIW, he's right. SunTV is the Fox News of Canada.


Or MSNBC - it's right up there with Fox when it comes to a biased perspective.

My question though is this - is there truth to the story? I'll go check it out from other sources if possible and I'll post what I find.
 

Kathryn

It was on fire when I laid down on it.
Canada News: Kitchener dad arrested at school after daughter draws picture of gun - thestar.com

TheRecord - Man shocked by arrest after daughter draws picture of...

Global Toronto | Ontario premier defends school after dad arrested after daughter draws a picture of a gun

Daughter's drawing leads to dad's arrest | Ontario | News | Welland Tribune

My gosh, the father was arrested when he went to pick up his daughter at school, and he was STRIP SEARCHED as well. Then their home was searched and the kids were each taken to child protective services and interviewed individually. Their mother was not allowed to see them or even know where they were during this time.

No gun was found by the way.

Wow. I'd be ****** OFF if I were those parents.
 

Kathryn

It was on fire when I laid down on it.

The first wrong is taking one story about how one school and one police official handled what may be a misunderstanding, and using that to smear an entire nation of over 30 million.

Oh give me a break. I'm discussing gun control and the question of gun paranoia in Canada in general, and using this story as a launching off point. My whole question is - is this the logical conclusion to Canada's gun control laws? Or is it an aberration? Or is it a portent of things to come? Misapplication of existing laws? What?

Actually, I've been gracious toward Canada on this thread. Which is more than I can say for most RF Canadians when the topic turns to the American South, or, God forbid, TEXAS.

The second wrong is quoting a Sun newspaper or any Sun media as a source for any information, other than sports highlights and Sunshine girls. Right now, the real no.1 national story in Canada is how evidence is slowly growing that our Federal Government conducted a Nixonian dirty tricks campaign to secure their goal of winning a majority government in the last election. And the last two issues of the Toronto Sun newspaper that are left lying around in our cafeteria at work, have had absolutely nothing to say about the robo-calls or any aspect of the scandal. And that is because Sunmedia is not an information service, but is a propaganda arm of a few oligarchs who run our economy, and the Conservative Party is their political tool to get the policies and legislation that they want.

For your reading pleasure, I've included several links to several sources. They all tell basically the same horrid little story of a father arrested when he came to the school to pick up his daughter, strip searched, his children whisked away without he or his wife's permission to child protective services and interviewed separately (while neither parent was told where the kids were), as he and his wife were interrogated and their home searched.
 
Last edited:

work in progress

Well-Known Member
Oh give me a break. I'm discussing gun control and the question of gun paranoia in Canada in general, and using this story as a launching off point.
Of course you are, and that's exactly what Sun Media intends in their propaganda against gun control and gun registry laws up here. I'll take gun paranoia over the U.S. cities that are racked with murders, shootings and assorted gun violence on a much larger scale that goes on in gun-paranoid countries. It's better than having your legislators owned by the NRA and the gun manufacturers.

My whole question is - is this the logical conclusion to Canada's gun control laws? Or is it an aberration? Or is it a portent of things to come? Misapplication of existing laws? What?
I noticed that the dad is claiming he was profiled by police because of the great age difference between him and his wife. In my local paper we learned that he is 48 years old, and says that when police looked in his car when they appeared on the scene, they thought his 22 year old wife was his daughter; and he claims that one of the cops said: "you should be ashamed of yourself," when told.....so there's a lot more to this story than gun debate.
Actually, I've been gracious toward Canada on this thread. Which is more than I can say for most RF Canadians when the topic turns to the American South, or, God forbid, TEXAS.
Texas is the carbuncle of America! The wellspring of fundamentalist fanaticism, and the raising of greed as a moral virtue. A lot of saner Texans are embarrassed by the politicians that come from their home-state.

For what it's worth, I used to be a lot more pro-American before my country started down the path to Americanization with the rise of this re-unified Conservative Party!

For your reading pleasure, I've included several links to several sources. They all tell basically the same horrid little story of a father arrested when he came to the school to pick up his daughter, strip searched, his children whisked away without he or his wife's permission to child protective services and interviewed separately (while neither parent was told where the kids were), as he and his wife were interrogated and their home searched.
And, as I already mentioned, there may be a lot more in this story than meets the eye....or certainly the Toronto Sun's eye! I don't think the specifics of the story actually have much to do with gun debates. Is there any reason why police or some school official couldn't have jumped to a similar conclusion about a child drawing a gun down in the U.S. and I mean those states where you can run around waving handguns all over the place? I'd be willing to bet that in a place where guns are all over the place, and a child could easily get ahold of a hand gun and bring it to school, that some teacher or principal would be more likely to go ape-**** about the drawing!
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Or MSNBC - it's right up there with Fox when it comes to a biased perspective.
No, it's like Fox News. SunTV is extremely right-leaning. Telling them that they're the MSNBC of Canada would probably be a good way to start a fight. If you told them that they were the Fox News of Canada, they'd probably take it as a compliment.

When gov't types defend such fascist behavior, I wonder if this portends nascent policy.
Dalton McGuinty is a bit of a slippery weasel, IMO, and it's hard to get him to actually condemn or defend anything. If you look at his quotes in the article, you'll notice that he's very careful to not actually come out and defend the actions. Instead, he gives non-committal statements like these:

"I don't think there's any doubt about the sincerity of the school and the teachers involved that there was a genuine concern.

"I think the question we've got to ask ourselves is, was that the best way to give expression to that concern?"


Global Toronto | Ontario premier defends school after dad arrested after daughter draws a picture of a gun

However, as the article notes, the leaders of the two opposition parties condemned what happened, including the leader of the NDP, a left-leaning (or in the American spectrum "extreme socialist" ;) ) party that is by no means "pro-gun".

Also, the police have apologized to the father and are conducting some sort of review of their actions.
 

Kathryn

It was on fire when I laid down on it.

No, it's like Fox News. SunTV is extremely right-leaning. Telling them that they're the MSNBC of Canada would probably be a good way to start a fight. If you told them that they were the Fox News of Canada, they'd probably take it as a compliment.

I guess my point wasn't clear enough - I was comparing the Sun to other biased news sources - not just right-wing leaning ones.
 

work in progress

Well-Known Member
No, it's like Fox News. SunTV is extremely right-leaning. Telling them that they're the MSNBC of Canada would probably be a good way to start a fight. If you told them that they were the Fox News of Canada, they'd probably take it as a compliment.
To be honest, Sun Media, and especially this so called "news" channel they somehow got the CRTC to put on our basic channel list of cable and satellite carriers, is worse than FoxNews. They don't even bother with the Alan Colmes or Juan Williams-types of weak liberals for an alternative opinion; and they never did even bother to put the reporters and other resources in it to establish a real news channel. Each program is just a succession of Sun columnists and conservative think tank hacks talking to other hacks about the news. It's not only propaganda....it isn't even interesting propaganda to watch. But, since all cable or satellite subscribers have to pay to keep these "small government" conservatives on the air, they can keep on broadcasting even if no one is watching!

Dalton McGuinty is a bit of a slippery weasel, IMO, and it's hard to get him to actually condemn or defend anything. If you look at his quotes in the article, you'll notice that he's very careful to not actually come out and defend the actions.
And it's to be expected, since fence-sitting is an art perfected by the Liberal Party up here. And it has worked well for them....at least up till now.

I used to hate the Liberals for the way they can shift and morph, depending on the political mood of the time. Federally, back in the days of Pierre Trudeau - starting in the late 60's, Canada was in a very socialist mood, and Trudeau's Liberals (and actually the previous Liberal Administration also) responded by stealing every major policy initiative of the Party of the left - the NDP. In the mid-80's, when Canada was being influenced by the claimed successes of free wheeling capitalism in the Reagan/Thatcher days, the Federal Liberals dumped any excessive ideological baggage to move to the right of a corrupt and discredited federal conservative government.

But, to be honest right now; after seeing how polarized and dysfunctional politics in the U.S. has become in the last 20 years, I'm concerned about the way the same process is happening in Canada...as our Conservative parties are becoming U.S.-style corporate mouthpieces with right wing social agendas, while the federal NDP, and the provincial parties are seeing the vacant middle ground as their opportunity to morph into a corporate-friendly Democratic Party. In another 10 years, if present trends continue, I wouldn't be surprised to see all of the Liberal Parties gone, and in their place, the U.S. kind of two party political class that is more concerned with donations and future job opportunities from the rich and powerful, then they are with the interests of the majority of voters.

However, as the article notes, the leaders of the two opposition parties condemned what happened, including the leader of the NDP, a left-leaning (or in the American spectrum "extreme socialist" ;) ) party that is by no means "pro-gun".
Just a point of clarification, although the NDP has been left on virtually every issue, gun control is one that polarizes the Party between rural and urban constituents. Farmers and rural dwellers in general, see it as an unnecessary burden for them, as many live out in the middle of nowhere and miles away from their neighbours. The odds of gun crimes in the countryside are very low. But the Chiefs of Police association who lobbied for the registry, argued that sawed-off guns are a big factor in urban crime. Since most city folk do not own guns (even the numbers of hunters are in steep decline), the big city NDP constituencies were strongly in favour of the registry. And that's why when it came up for a vote in Parliament, the NDP had to allow a "free vote" because they couldn't come to a general consensus. This was a very unusual action by a Party that tries to speak with one voice on every issue in Parliament.
 

Vile Atheist

Loud and Obnoxious
Actually, I've been gracious toward Canada on this thread. Which is more than I can say for most RF Canadians when the topic turns to the American South, or, God forbid, TEXAS.
Texan values are pretty much the polar opposite of Canadian values. In Texas, they love their guns. In Canada, certain types of guns are accepted for hunting in rural areas, but we see no reason why anyone needs a handgun in public, including self-defence. In Texas, religion is really mixed up with politics (as well as the US in general). In Canada, our politicians wouldn't publicly get near religion with a 10 foot pole. That isn't to say Canadian politicians aren't religious, but in Canada, religion is normally something you keep to yourself. In Texas, the political discourse is generally far-right. In Canada, the political discourse is generally left-of-center.

I could go on and on. That isn't to say that Texan values are superior to Canadian values or Canadian values are superior to Texan values. But that difference is often the cause of friction, not only between Canadians and Texans, but between generally liberal Americans and Canadians and generally conservative Americans (You won't find much close to a Republican in Canada). Even our Prime Minister Stephen Harper, who Canadians generally acknowledge is probably one of the most right-wing leaders we've ever had...he doesn't even come close to being as extreme right-wing as any run-of-the-mill Republican (extreme from a Canadian perspective, at least).

I don't think Canadians "hate" Americans, or even just Southerners, or even just Texans. But that fundamental disagreement of values leads to friction. In terms of this story, Canadians, especially urban Canadians (I live in a rural area of Canada), have little tolerance for guns. What you as an American might see as perfectly normal (someone walking down the street with a concealed firearm, for example), a Canadian like me would be scared to death.

Was this an overreaction to a drawing? Of course. But what you are seeing is that fundamental difference in culture when it comes to guns and the public's attitude towards them. Sometimes it gets out of hand here, just as down there when you have NRA gun nuts wanting children to carry REAL firearms to school. And just as you think we're crazy for strip searching a father whose daughter drew a picture of him holding a gun, we think you're crazy for wanting kids to have guns in classrooms. (I would post a link, but I can't until I hit 15 posts)

Perhaps we're all crazy.
 

Vile Atheist

Loud and Obnoxious
Just a point of clarification, although the NDP has been left on virtually every issue, gun control is one that polarizes the Party between rural and urban constituents. Farmers and rural dwellers in general, see it as an unnecessary burden for them, as many live out in the middle of nowhere and miles away from their neighbours. The odds of gun crimes in the countryside are very low. But the Chiefs of Police association who lobbied for the registry, argued that sawed-off guns are a big factor in urban crime. Since most city folk do not own guns (even the numbers of hunters are in steep decline), the big city NDP constituencies were strongly in favour of the registry. And that's why when it came up for a vote in Parliament, the NDP had to allow a "free vote" because they couldn't come to a general consensus. This was a very unusual action by a Party that tries to speak with one voice on every issue in Parliament.

My Member of Parliament, Bruce Hyer (I kinda gave away my location, there, but oh well), was one of a few NDP MPs to vote with the Conservatives in favour of abolishing the long gun registry.

I'm an NDP supporter myself, but I don't care about the long-gun registry much at all. It's not a huge issue for me either way. But I can tell you one thing, a lot of people in this riding and the adjacent ones are BIG TIME hunters. Most people were in favour of abolishing the long-gun registry, even though we're mostly pro-NDP.

The NDP did not allow a "free vote". Nycole Turmel disciplined our two MPs Bruce Hyer and John Rafferty by restricting their travel privileges and stripping them of their critic roles. These are sanctions that, to this date, have not been removed. A lot of people here are outraged at the sanctions.

Party discipline should be reserved for core issues (gun control is not a core NDP issue), if there must be party discipline at all. If you compare Canadian politics to American politics, American politicians regularly vote against their own parties. I think to have a fair and democratic system, there should be no party discipline. Our MPs should vote the will of their constituents. Personally, I'm hugely disappointed in the NDP for this and were they not going to choose a new leader, I probably would end up supporting the Liberals next election.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
.....just as you think we're crazy for strip searching a father whose daughter drew a picture of him holding a gun, we think you're crazy for wanting kids to have guns in classrooms. (I would post a link, but I can't until I hit 15 posts)
Perhaps we're all crazy.
Nope.....just you.
I look forward to your links showing that we want kids to have guns in classrooms.
 

Falvlun

Earthbending Lemur
Premium Member
Nope.....just you.
I look forward to your links showing that we want kids to have guns in classrooms.
I don't know whether this is what he's talking about or not, but protests for concealed carry on campus have been relatively common. Apparently, they recently won the right to have concealed handguns in their college classrooms in Colorado.

Students for Concealed Carry
 
Top