Have you ever found a single bug in Islam?

[Truthisnotyourenemy]

It is noise to you but to the ants it has a meaning.

How the ants learned those words of commands ?

We can never know that the ants produce any sound if we don't have the sensitive microphones,so people in the 7th century should be more surprised than you to believe that the ants can talk or produce any kind of sound and even the prophet will find it hard to be believed but he is only a messenger,he has to pass the message as he received it.

Lol....this is hilarious, ants do not have a sounds for different specific human names.
They don't talk like humans either. They have very simple sound communication that's very limited.
You're fear is shutting down your logical faculties on such problems.

As for Koran mentioning talking ants, this was another popular myth found in primitive cultures.
Bearing in mind everything talks according to the Koran, it's merely desperation to claim this a miracle.

There really is nothing more to be said.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

So, either I am somehow a grave sinner without even realizing it, or the Quran is on the wrong.

To play the devil's advocate, it's not always easy to know that you're performing wrongdoing.

 

[FearGod]

Oh, come'on, FearGod. :tsk:

You expect us to believe in a shapeshifting, smoke-made jinns to be more believable than talking birds or insects?

Can you even prove that jinns exist?

I have witnessed myself a friend possessed by Jinn and i heard similar stories which confirmed what i saw.

You don't believe it because you can't see it by your naked eyes.

Why we believe that a harmful bacteria can cause us a disease,we can't see it but we believe it because we were able to detect it,but we can't detect the jinn as we can't detect our souls.

:sorry1: Sorry, man. But jinns is even more far-fetched than humans and animals can communicate like you and I can.

The Muslims' belief in the jinns, is the by-product in pre-Islamic Arabic superstitions and fables. That's the origin of the jinns, from pre-Isalmic fairytales, no more believable than elves, ghouls and goblins.

I have seen no evidences of jinns, except in make-believe stories and fairytales, of which is found in the Qur'an.

Unfortunately many people were described as mad or having psychosis while they were possessed by Jinn.

[youtube]XXkJFakkEp0[/youtube]
About Jinns and Magic- Dr. bilal philips - YouTube

I wouldn't dream of saying what you can or cannot believe, but if you are going to say that these ants were actually jinns in ant-form as valid answer to truthisnotyourenemy, then you really shouldn't be surprised when he scoff at your claim.

I didn't say the whole ants were Jinns but the only one ant that recognized him and talked to the other ants,i based my opinion on the previous verse confirming what next,and which is that Jinns were dealing with Solomon.

As to your quote in 27:17, the verse is distinguishing them as jinns, humans and birds; it doesn't say the humans and birds were jinns that have taken on their forms.

Humans and Birds were fixed in the verse,so any other forms dealing with Solomon will be Jinns,and also Jinns got the ability to have a form of bird or human by possession too.

So your claims that these humans and birds are really jinns - you are reaching - you're trying to change the original context of the verse.

No,the word Jinns are there,i didn't bring it from elsewhere

Likewise, the verse about the Solomon and the ants, doesn't say the ants were really jinns, so you're trying to manipulate the verse to say differently.

It isn't that hard to realize it without the need to tell it,god mentioned that Jinns are dealing with Solomon,so once the ant knows him,then it is one among others.

And ants may be able to talk to one another, but I doubt very much they could understand the speech of men, or I doubt very much that people could possibly understand what the ants were saying.

Solomon were able to understand and hear the ants language,that is the power of God,similar to other miraculous prophets such as Jesus brought the dead to life...etc

We know that birds can mimic the sounds and words of men, but they really have no idea what they are saying.

But the ants can understand the commands in their own language.
We've been looking at ant intelligence the wrong way

 

[FearGod]

Lol....this is hilarious, ants do not have a sounds for different specific human names.
They don't talk like humans either. They have very simple sound communication that's very limited.
You're fear is shutting down your logical faculties on such problems.

As for Koran mentioning talking ants, this was another popular myth found in primitive cultures.
Bearing in mind everything talks according to the Koran, it's merely desperation to claim this a miracle.

There really is nothing more to be said.

Who said that ants speak the human language but they got their own language,but i may try to understand the problem you got which prevents you from understanding.

Do you know how the sound is analyzed in the ants brain ?

We hear the sound Solomon,but for the ants Solomon is (lets assume it to be zzeez),IOW the word Solomon is decoded to their own language and Solomon got the ability to decode their noisy sounds to human language.

Do you think that when we say in the microphone Solomon it'll pass in the electric wire as Solomon or it'll be decoded as electric current which will be read again as Solomon in the speaker.

 

[McBell]

Who said that ants speak the human language but they got their own language,but i may try to understand the problem you got which prevents you from understanding.

Do you know how the sound is analyzed in the ants brain ?

We hear the sound Solomon,but for the ants Solomon is (lets assume it to be zzeez),IOW the word Solomon is decoded to their own language and Solomon got the ability to decode their noisy sounds to human language.

Do you think that when we say in the microphone Solomon it'll pass in the electric wire as Solomon or it'll be decoded as electric current which will be read again as Solomon in the speaker.

:biglaugh:

 

[Sees]

Sure Solomon and ants could communicate, wasn't he a magician

Gandalf could....

 

[FearGod]

The whole thing, basically. The presentation of it did absolutely nothing positive for me.

The religion appears to be about basically blind obedience, total submission of thought and action to what I consider to be a very man-made idea. It's so elementary, like "believe this, and do these things, and go to paradise" and "fail to believe this, and do these things, and be tortured forever". The Qur'an comes off as very tribalistic, the way it talks about unbelievers as though they are some unified block of people that have bad traits rather than what they actually are- the rest of the diverse world. I simply have no reason to believe that a religion like Islam is true, and view it as a very harmful religion, created by men.

The message of Islam was sent to a place which was regarded as the worst on earth,it was described as the age of Ignorance,tribes were fighting in daily basis,slaves sold in the market as goods,baby girls buried alive,adultery ...etc

The prophet was known as an amazing guy,even though he was living among those people but he was as if coming from another planet,he was so lovely and being known as truthful,honest,trustworthy,generous,kind and sincere.

From a small tribe controlled by 2 powers at those times (Romans & Persia) to a great powerful nation that reached China in the east and Spain in the west.

And for Islam in practice, most Islamic countries get internationally ranked among the lowest countries for gender equality (relating to economic participation, political influence, education, health), and many of them have laws against homosexuality with punishments ranging from imprisonment up to death. Most of the extremely sexist things I've seen written on this forum were by Muslims from the Middle East. Some other Muslims here have been better about that, but the worst statements I've seen have been from religious Muslims, and their statements are basically just supporting the Qur'an.

It is true that the Islamic nations is among the worst on earth and that was due to their rulers but that even was already prophesied by the prophet.


[youtube]hu5py5rUCQk[/youtube]
Hadith: Return of the Khilafah - YouTube

The Qur'an has a verse for beating wives although people debate about the translation, and talks about women getting half inheritance, and women counting as half an eye witness compared to a man. One of the Hadiths says that most of the people in hell are women (especially women that are ungrateful), and another Hadith also says that women count as half an eye witness due to deficiency of mind.

How then you explain the prophet's last sermon before his death.

[youtube]i3Xc1MfX9X8[/youtube]
The Prophet Muhammad's Last Sermon - YouTube

And the amount of detailed violent and sadistic threats of hell for unbelievers where it talks excitedly about the tortures just pushes the whole thing into really unethical territory. And so much tribalism, just literally all over the place. I mean, just a few samples:

Violent threats pop up in hundreds of verses throughout the book, sometimes for unbelievers and sometimes for people that do bad things. Such detail too- burning skins being replaced for more agony, beating with maces, boiling water, scalding molten brass, chains, yokes around the necks, dragged on faces.

Really, really barbaric stuff, man.

Just in a case that Judgement day was real and you found yourself there will you then feel remorse and sorrow or you won't care.

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

Just in a case that Judgement day was real and you found yourself there will you then feel remorse and sorrow or you won't care.

If that Judgement Day is real, then Allah would be a monster.

So that Judgement Day isn't real.

How about you... will you feel remorse and sorrow if you die and find yourself in the Christian hell, burning for all eternity?

 

[Truthisnotyourenemy]

Who said that ants speak the human language but they got their own language,but i may try to understand the problem you got which prevents you from understanding.

Do you know how the sound is analyzed in the ants brain ?

We hear the sound Solomon,but for the ants Solomon is (lets assume it to be zzeez),IOW the word Solomon is decoded to their own language and Solomon got the ability to decode their noisy sounds to human language.

Do you think that when we say in the microphone Solomon it'll pass in the electric wire as Solomon or it'll be decoded as electric current which will be read again as Solomon in the speaker.

Lol.....hilarious.
Ok this makes perfect sense...:areyoucra
You now just need to complete this story by explaining how the ant recognized Solomon! Then I really think you have cracked it!:bow:

 

[technomage]

Lol.....hilarious.
Ok this makes perfect sense...:areyoucra
You now just need to complete this story by explaining how the ant recognized Solomon! Then I really think you have cracked it!:bow:

I look at the story of the ants the same way I look at the story of Balaam's (edited to "donkey").

If one has a problem, so does the other.

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

I look at the story of the ants the same way I look at the story of Balaam's (edited to "donkey").

If one has a problem, so does the other.

If Jesus can rise from the dead, ants can certainly talk.

 

[technomage]

If Jesus can rise from the dead, ants can certainly talk.

Pretty much. Of course, the inverse is also true.

 

[Penumbra]

The message of Islam was sent to a place which was regarded as the worst on earth,it was described as the age of Ignorance,tribes were fighting in daily basis,slaves sold in the market as goods,baby girls buried alive,adultery ...etc

The prophet was known as an amazing guy,even though he was living among those people but he was as if coming from another planet,he was so lovely and being known as truthful,honest,trustworthy,generous,kind and sincere.

From a small tribe controlled by 2 powers at those times (Romans & Persia) to a great powerful nation that reached China in the east and Spain in the west.

If the argument is that the environment at the time was even worse than what is in the Qur'an, then the counterargument is that it shouldn't have been called the perfect word-for-word recitation from god by the seal of the prophets.

That would be like the US Constitution being unable to be amended, stuck with 18th century morality forever. Not a smart plan.

I don't see Muslims saying that the Qur'an is "alright" or "well it's what they had to work with at the time but I know it's not perfect".

Muhammad conquered cities and then sent out orders to destroy pagan places of worship throughout the land. And words from him with all this torture and hatred are preserved in the Qur'an. How would he be "lovely"?

It is true that the Islamic nations is among the worst on earth and that was due to their rulers but that even was already prophesied by the prophet.

[youtube]hu5py5rUCQk[/youtube]
Hadith: Return of the Khilafah - YouTube

How then you explain the prophet's last sermon before his death.

[youtube]i3Xc1MfX9X8[/youtube]
The Prophet Muhammad's Last Sermon - YouTube

There's not even one Islamic country that ranks well for gender equality or homosexual rights. In fact, ironically some of the highest ranking (a term used in a relative sense for still not good but better than the rest) Muslim-majority countries for gender equality were the ones that were part of the Soviet Union where education for boys and girls was compulsory for all of those years.

Just in a case that Judgement day was real and you found yourself there will you then feel remorse and sorrow or you won't care.

Nobody wants to be tortured like that. Lots of Christians have a belief that anyone who doesn't accept Jesus as god will suffer forever. Lots of Muslims have even more detailed and sadistic descriptions for anyone that doesn't believe the Qur'an. It's a violent sense of tribalism, various people around the world willing to accept the idea that it's right for those that are different from them to be put in agony forever.

My point is that it's a belief system with a lot of barbarism. That people would worship this, and feel this sort of acceptance of it for other people, that they could view this as something good and just, is amazing to me. That they could ask how I could possibly not find this beautiful or true, is almost humorous. Those Qur'an descriptions of the afterlife for non-Muslims, simply for being of a different religion and not worshiping from this book, literally make the Holocaust look like amateur hour. Why, in the world, would such extravagant torture be in any worldview?

I certainly wouldn't want harm or especially suffering to come to any Muslim or anyone else, but most Muslims are perfectly fine with this violent content in the Qur'an about everyone else, viewing this book as something that was recited word-by-word in perfection by god, and something to base their life around in a fear-based worldview.

 

[Sees]

Somebody with strong principles, good heart, and sound mind is not afraid of any Judgment Day

Fear of a God or Gods is a tool for creating submissive followers, compliant group members, etc. This is why specific doctrines of belief are required or else the power isn't there. Notice in religious traditions where there is no punish, burn, annhilate God - there is basically no forced dogma and good living trumps beliefs? Can't be afraid of other peoples dragons.

 

[Penumbra]

Somebody with strong principles, good heart, and sound mind is not afraid of any Judgment Day

Fear of a God or Gods is a tool for creating submissive followers, compliant group members, etc. This is why specific doctrines of belief are required or else the power isn't there. Notice in religious traditions where there is no punish, burn, annhilate God - there is basically no forced dogma and good living trumps beliefs? Can't be afraid of other peoples dragons.

Very true.

 

[LuisDantas]

Indeed.

 

[beenie]

Somebody with strong principles, good heart, and sound mind is not afraid of any Judgment Day

Fear of a God or Gods is a tool for creating submissive followers, compliant group members, etc. This is why specific doctrines of belief are required or else the power isn't there. Notice in religious traditions where there is no punish, burn, annhilate God - there is basically no forced dogma and good living trumps beliefs? Can't be afraid of other peoples dragons.

Completely agree.

 

[shawn001]

The quran didn't mention that humans were made giants in ancient times.

I am a curious here about this then, although your saying its not in there which I have no reason to doubt. But how does the below fit in then?

However, how does this fit in?

With this said, let us look at what Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, said about Prophet Adam, peace be upon him:

Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, "Allah created Adam, making him 60 cubits tall. When He created him, He said to him, "Go and greet that group of angels, and listen to their reply, for it will be your greeting (salutation) and the greeting (salutations of your offspring." So, Adam said (to the angels), As-Salamu Alaikum (i.e. Peace be upon you). The angels said, "As-salamu Alaika wa Rahmatu-l-lahi" (i.e. Peace and Allah's Mercy be upon you). Thus the angels added to Adam's salutation the expression, 'Wa Rahmatu-l-lahi,' Any person who will enter Paradise will resemble Adam (in appearance and figure). People have been decreasing in stature since Adam's creation. (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 55, Number 543)"

Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle said, "The first group of people who will enter Paradise, will be glittering like the full moon and those who will follow them, will glitter like the most brilliant star in the sky. They will not urinate, relieve nature, spit, or have any nasal secretions. Their combs will be of gold, and their sweat will smell like musk. The aloes-wood will be used in their centers. Their wives will be houris. All of them will look alike and will resemble their father Adam (in statute), sixty cubits tall." (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 55, Number 544)"

Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: "The first group of my Ummah to get into Paradise would be like a full moon in the night. Then those who would be next to them; they would be like the most significantly glittering stars in regard to brightness, then after them (others) in ranks. They would neither void excrement, nor pass water, nor suffer from catarrh, nor would they spit. And their combs would be made of gold, and the fuel of their braziers would be aloes and their sweat would be musk and their form would be the form of one single person according to the length of their father sixty cubits tall. This hadith has been transmitted on the authority of Ibn Abi Shaiba with a slight variation of wording. (Translation of Sahih Muslim, Book 040, Number 6796)"

Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: "Allah, the Exalted and Glorious, created Adam in His own image with His length of sixty cubits, and as He created him He told him to greet that group, and that was a party of angels sitting there, and listen to the response that they give him, for it would form his greeting and that of his offspring. He then went away and said: Peace be upon you! They (the angels) said: May there be peace upon you and the Mercy of Allah, and they made an addition of" Mercy of Allah". So he who would get into Paradise would get in the form of Adam, his length being sixty cubits, then the people who followed him continued to diminish in size up to this day. (Translation of Sahih Muslim, Book 040, Number 6809)"


Islam is the TRUTH: Was Adam 90 feet (60 cubits) tall?

 

[YmirGF]

Somebody with strong principles, good heart, and sound mind is not afraid of any Judgment Day

Fear of a God or Gods is a tool for creating submissive followers, compliant group members, etc. This is why specific doctrines of belief are required or else the power isn't there. Notice in religious traditions where there is no punish, burn, annhilate God - there is basically no forced dogma and good living trumps beliefs? Can't be afraid of other peoples dragons.

I have no fear, whatsoever, of the Islamic/Christian Judgment day being real. It is, in effect, the cosmic trump card, used to cajole people into believing because of their innate fear of death. It's pretty evil psychology really.

 

[Ingledsva]

Somebody with strong principles, good heart, and sound mind is not afraid of any Judgment Day

Fear of a God or Gods is a tool for creating submissive followers, compliant group members, etc. This is why specific doctrines of belief are required or else the power isn't there. Notice in religious traditions where there is no punish, burn, annhilate God - there is basically no forced dogma and good living trumps beliefs? Can't be afraid of other peoples dragons.

I have no fear, whatsoever, of the Islamic/Christian Judgment day being real. It is, in effect, the cosmic trump card, used to cajole people into believing because of their innate fear of death. It's pretty evil psychology really.

Indeed! Or as we have called it in the past, - Psychological Terrorism!




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