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Have you ever found a single bug in Islam?
- Thread starter Farrukh
- Start date
Farrukh
Active Member
because in that clip, a Muslim Scholar has explained same verse. Now if we don't beat our women, why you are afraid? isn't it just a propaganda ?
Monk Of Reason
༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ
What does your translation say? Specifically? And what of the other points?
Sees
Dragonslayer
Propaganda that a divine being/entity thinks like a 7th century Arabian man?
The foul sexism smell in mid-eastern texts is a dead give away that there is bugs. Sexism, theocracy, intolerance, etc. are the gifts that characterize them all and get shared with the world "gently"
Ingledsva
HEATHEN ALASKAN
BULL! Actually he said you could.
Because it says so in the Qur'an!
He was "trying" to change the implement of abuse to something smaller.
His argument didn't work, because it was just backpedaling lies!
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Ingledsva
HEATHEN ALASKAN
HADITH OF THE SUNAN OF IBN-I-MAJAH[11]
#1985 Iyas b. ‘Abdullah, the son of Abu Dhubab reported that Allah’s Messenger said, "Do not beat the slave girls (women folk)." Then Umar visited the Holy Prophet and said, "Allah’s Messenger, women have become emboldened towards their husbands. So allow us to beat them. So, they were beaten (when permission was granted). upon this many groups of women went round the family of Muhammad. When it was morning, he, (the Holy Prophet), said, "Seventy women went round the family of Muhammad this night. Every woman was making a complaint against her spouse. You will not find them (1) the best among you.
Sahih Muslim #3506: abir b. 'Abdullah reported: Abu Bakr came and sought permission to see Allah's Messenger. He found people sitting at his door and none amongst them had been granted permission, but it was granted to Abu Bakr and he went in. Then came 'Umar and he sought permission and it was granted to him, and he found Allah's Apostle sitting sad and silent with his wives around him. He (Hadrat 'Umar) said: I would say something which would make the Holy Prophet laugh, so he said: Messenger of Allah, I wish you had seen (the treatment meted out to) the daughter of Kharija when she asked me some money, and I got up and slapped her on her neck. Allah's Messenger laughed and said: They are around me as you see, asking for extra money. Abu Bakr then got up went to 'Aisha and slapped her on the neck, and 'Umar stood up before Hafsa and slapped her saying: You ask Allah's Messenger which he does not possess. They said: By Allah, we do not ask Allah's Messenger for anything he does not possess….
Bukhari volume 8, #828 Narrated Aisha: Abu Bakr came to towards me and struck me violently with his fist and said, "You have detained the people because of your necklace." But I remained motionless as if I was dead lest I should awake Allah's Apostle although that hit was very painful.
Bukhari volume 7, #132 "Narrated Zam'a, "The prophet said, "None of you should flog his wife as he flogs a slave and then have sexual intercourse with her in the last part of the day.""
Obviously they believed in beating women.
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#1985 Iyas b. ‘Abdullah, the son of Abu Dhubab reported that Allah’s Messenger said, "Do not beat the slave girls (women folk)." Then Umar visited the Holy Prophet and said, "Allah’s Messenger, women have become emboldened towards their husbands. So allow us to beat them. So, they were beaten (when permission was granted). upon this many groups of women went round the family of Muhammad. When it was morning, he, (the Holy Prophet), said, "Seventy women went round the family of Muhammad this night. Every woman was making a complaint against her spouse. You will not find them (1) the best among you.
Sahih Muslim #3506: abir b. 'Abdullah reported: Abu Bakr came and sought permission to see Allah's Messenger. He found people sitting at his door and none amongst them had been granted permission, but it was granted to Abu Bakr and he went in. Then came 'Umar and he sought permission and it was granted to him, and he found Allah's Apostle sitting sad and silent with his wives around him. He (Hadrat 'Umar) said: I would say something which would make the Holy Prophet laugh, so he said: Messenger of Allah, I wish you had seen (the treatment meted out to) the daughter of Kharija when she asked me some money, and I got up and slapped her on her neck. Allah's Messenger laughed and said: They are around me as you see, asking for extra money. Abu Bakr then got up went to 'Aisha and slapped her on the neck, and 'Umar stood up before Hafsa and slapped her saying: You ask Allah's Messenger which he does not possess. They said: By Allah, we do not ask Allah's Messenger for anything he does not possess….
Bukhari volume 8, #828 Narrated Aisha: Abu Bakr came to towards me and struck me violently with his fist and said, "You have detained the people because of your necklace." But I remained motionless as if I was dead lest I should awake Allah's Apostle although that hit was very painful.
Bukhari volume 7, #132 "Narrated Zam'a, "The prophet said, "None of you should flog his wife as he flogs a slave and then have sexual intercourse with her in the last part of the day.""
Obviously they believed in beating women.
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Farrukh
Active Member
Seems like you are left with no arguments, how Islam can become fastest growing religion in the world? Wiki- Religious growth
Ingledsva
HEATHEN ALASKAN
LOL! I obviously have plenty of arguments.
I can't help the people that "drink the Kool-Aid," and join abusive patriarchal religions.
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Muslims have a high birthrate, it's not that they're converting more people.
World Muslim population doubling, report projects – CNN Belief Blog - CNN.com Blogs
Breathe
Hostis humani generis
It wasn't the existence of sects that I meant; it was how rigid some of the sects are. Wahhabis and Deobandis are very rigid, and then Malikis are much more liberal, etc.
Otherwise, it's generally doctrinal issues for me.
Monk Of Reason
༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ
By shaming masturbation, condoms and the ability of a wife to say no?
Sees
Dragonslayer
This plus the fear of leaving Islam = lots of Muslims.
The ones who are converting are being fed some progressive, liberal, western, internet-friendly flavor of Islam that dances around the social and political aspects - which are just as much Islam as daily prayers and monotheism. Of course I actually hope the progressive, liberal variety becomes Islam itself one day
Caladan
Agnostic Pantheist
And here in, in the question/statement above lays the problem.
Muslims have a strong tendency to present their faith as a flawless system which encompasses all levels of human existence. Political, spiritual and economic. And right from the start they boast to other people that this God-given ideology is perfect and flawless, for every single human being.
Obviously people around the world understand that is not the case, as Islam has not redeemed Muslims from the Jahiliyyah, the pre-Islamic pagan state of ignorance and immorality. Muslim cultures are still in such a state, therefore Islam is full of bugs, not simply a single bug. And these kind of boastful proclamations about Islam's perfection are a result of the same ancient ignorant state of mind.
My only advice to serious Muslim believers is to focus on the many challenges which Muslim cultures face, because preaching the perfection of Islam while these cultures are left behind does not bode well for them. It is a state of denial which only creates a greater dissonance with people from other cultures and ideological frames of references.
The idea of religion is for a believer to improve themselves and to outgrow ignorance. If religion becomes an enabling tool for the self satisfied then it has no virtue.
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
He [the Prophet Muhammad - Ed.] then told Safiyyah that he was prepared to set her free, and he offered her the choice between remaining a Jewess and returning to her people or entering Islam and becoming his wife. "I choose God and His Messenger," she said; and they were married at the first halt on the homeward march.
Muhammad offered to free Safiyyah without requiring her to marry him. This means that she really was in no danger of being enslaved by anyone once Muhammad decided to release her.
But this leads us to another major problem. These Muslim sources would want us to really believe that a woman whose husband, father and brother were killed, within a couple of days gladly and voluntarily chose to marry and have sex with the very man who caused the deaths of her family members! Even Muhammads companions were leery of this union in light of the recent tragedies:
Ibn Umar [al-Waqidi] Kathir b. Zayd al-Walid b. Rabah Abu Hurayrah: While the Prophet was lying with Safiyyah Abu Ayyub stayed the night at his door. When he saw the Prophet in the morning he said "God is the Greatest." He had a sword with him; he said to the Prophet, "O Messenger of God, this young woman had just been married, and you killed her father, her brother and her husband, so I did not trust her (not to harm) you." The Prophet laughed and said "Good". (The History of al-Tabari, Volume XXXIX (39), p. 185; bold and underline emphasis ours)
Not only were some of the companions troubled, but one of Muhammad's wives was also disturbed by the fact that a woman would want to marry her family's murderer:
According to al-Waqidi: In this year the Messenger of God married Mulaykah bt. Dawud al-Laythiyyah. One of the Prophet's wives came to Mulaykah and said to her, "Are you not ashamed to marry a man who killed your father?" She therefore "took refuge [in God]" from him. She was beautiful and young. The Messenger of God separated from her. He had killed her father the day of the conquest of Mecca. (The History of al-Tabari: The Victory of Islam, Translated by Michael Fishbein, Volume VIII (8), p. 187; underline emphasis ours)
This shows us that even those close to Muhammad saw that there was something morally wrong with their prophet marrying women whose family he had killed.
With the foregoing in mind, is it reasonable that a woman would want to sleep with her captor seeing that her family was brutally killed upon his orders? What woman would not be repulsed at the idea of sleeping with the very person responsible for the death and plundering of her family and tribe? Isnt it obvious that the Muslims made up the story of Safiyyah agreeing to be Muhammads wife within a few days after the murder of her family in order to salvage their prophets reputation, in order to avoid having to admit that this union was forced and thus basically nothing more than rape?
Muhammad's Marriage to Safiyyah
This plus the fear of leaving Islam = lots of Muslims.
The ones who are converting are being fed some progressive, liberal, western, internet-friendly flavor of Islam that dances around the social and political aspects - which are just as much Islam as daily prayers and monotheism. Of course I actually hope the progressive, liberal variety becomes Islam itself one day
I'm not seeing much of Westerners converting to liberal sects of Islam. When I hear about them converting, it's usually conservative sects or even Jihadi sects. Liberal Islam seems almost unheard of. The liberal groups that do try to start in Muslim countries usually don't last very long because of threats.
Monk Of Reason
༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ
The only ones that I have seen convert personally are usually women who are marrying a Muslim man. These women have usually been told about the magical fluffy bunny version of Islam and anything negative that they may or may not have heard has been explained away under the rug of "anti-Islam propaganda".
Ingledsva
HEATHEN ALASKAN
Indeed it is rape, - and the Bible has the same things in it.
Deuteronomy 21:10-14 (New International Version) 10 When you go to war against your enemies and the LORD your God delivers them into your hands and you take captives, 11 if you notice among the captives a beautiful woman and are attracted to her, you may take her as your woman. 12 Bring her into your home and have her shave her head, trim her nails 13 and put aside the clothes she was wearing when captured. After she has lived in your house and mourned her father and mother for a full month, then you may take her and be her master/owner and she shall be your woman. 14 If you are not pleased with her, let her go wherever she wishes. You must not sell her or treat her as a slave, since you have dishonored her.
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Sees
Dragonslayer
They are all over the forums bro
I've talked to a few in private who were once in the verge of converting to Islam in light of this type of liberal Islam. When I used to talk to people in the military about what Islam is I used to propagate it unknowingly my self. It was actually talking to Kuwaitis and people in UAE and Iraq where I saw they felt the liberal and western types were ashamed of true Islam and argued for the things that apologists online dance aaround or deny.
Yes! This is 'the point'.
They are all over the forums bro
I've talked to a few in private who were once in the verge of converting to Islam in light of this type of liberal Islam. When I used to talk to people in the military about what Islam is I used to propagate it unknowingly my self. It was actually talking to Kuwaitis and people in UAE and Iraq where I saw they felt the liberal and western types were ashamed of true Islam and argued for the things that apologists online dance aaround or deny.
Well, okay. But I haven't seen any online or off. Most of the ones I've come across online are conservatives and Salafist types. The ones offline tend to be Somalis. I know a Palestinian Muslim but he doesn't seem very religious. Lol. He's pretty Western.