He is Risen - The Evidence

[sayak83]

Why are you back here again? Did we not pass that? Did you not express that before? Why do you repeat. I find that's very common with opponents to the Bible.
Why is that?
Besides... It's a completely wrong assessment and strawmanish from the looks of it. It's looks like one of those made up spur of the moment strawman.

To the question Why do you argue for what you believe, when what you consider convincing, is not remotely so for anybody who is already not a believer?
You said...
To test whether my ideas and beliefs have flaws that I have overlooked so that I may improve upon them. If someone else finds them useful or informative or thought provoking, that is an added bonus.

Tell me please, if no one finds anything you say useful.... What of it? Will you stop posting?
*Shaking my head*
So what, if none of you see Spiderman crawling up RF's pages? *Shaking my head*
Would it take skin off my nose if people keep crying. "No God. I see no evidence of God."
Will that stop me from posting, what they claim they don't see.

Are you suggesting I do?
Are you suggesting I stop counter arguing claims, and presenting evidence?

View attachment 51048
You don't like that?

Is it because you prefer to hear to hear, "The Bible is myth." "Jesus is a make-belief character." etc.?
Is that what you prefer to hear? Just stated beliefs or claims with no evidence to support it, but just mere opinions? Is that it?
You don't want to hear anything against that?
Is that it?

Come to think of it, I never once saw you ask the many posters on here making unsupported claims, why they post.
Hmm.

I am always against people making unsupported claims. But I do not read every thread.
I am trying to understand where you are coming from. This thread is addressed towards non Christians yes. Is it not obvious that if you harp on faith based statements and Bible is true claims, it won't work?

 

[sayak83]

Paul met Jesus (after Jesus was dead) and there is written first hand testimony.

Not really. He had a brief spiritual vision of Jesus. He was not drinking tea or playing soccer with him was he? Lots of Hindus also have visions of God or Krishna. So do people from other religions. It's very common.

 

[nPeace]

I am always against people making unsupported claims. But I do not read every thread.
I am trying to understand where you are coming from. This thread is addressed towards non Christians yes. Is it not obvious that if you harp on faith based statements and Bible is true claims, it won't work?

Please, just from the OP alone, list the faith-based statements... numbering 1 to ...

 

[Subduction Zone]

Paul met Jesus (after Jesus was dead) and there is written first hand testimony.

Paul had visions. AKA hallucinations or delusion. Where is the written first hand testimony? I am curious about that.

 

[nPeace]

I am always against people making unsupported claims. But I do not read every thread.
I am trying to understand where you are coming from. This thread is addressed towards non Christians yes. Is it not obvious that if you harp on faith based statements and Bible is true claims, it won't work?

Also what do you mean by "won't work."?
This is not a machine, so please explain what you mean by that.... work for whom, or what?

 

[PearlSeeker]

Not really. He had a brief spiritual vision of Jesus. He was not drinking tea or playing soccer with him was he? Lots of Hindus also have visions of God or Krishna. So do people from other religions. It's very common.

The topic is evidence of resurrected Christ. Paul was somehow with him (no matter how) and talked with him. This completely changed Paul's life...

 

[PearlSeeker]

Paul had visions. AKA hallucinations or delusion. Where is the written first hand testimony? I am curious about that.

It's documented in Paul's letters.

 

[Subduction Zone]

It's documented in Paul's letters.

Yes, a person that had hallucinations wrote about it. And how does that make the hallucination reliable?

Paul was not an eyewitness. He claimed that there were some to people that had no way of checking out his claims.

 

[blü 2]

Could you walk me through the context of those verses you quoted please ? Its rare we get much past a proof text ,out of context ?Most of the time its from a website that has a compiled list of alleged contradictions.

Two things.

First, you have the references so you can check the contexts to your heart's content.

Second, in the real world the bible is not perfect, error-free, infallible or magic. It's a collection of ancient texts setting out folktales, folk history, real history, laws, genealogies, songs, poems, stories, wisdom, politics and polemics, some with more than one author, all except Paul and Luke/Acts by different authors, and again excepting Paul, all with unknown authors who are humans.

They're historical artifacts and each book is to be understood in the same way any ancient manuscript is to be understood ─ where, when, who, what, why.

And exactly as you'd expect, they're full of what we now see as errors of fact, and they contradict each other, not least because they set out the evolution of God from one of many in the Canaanite pantheon, probably with a consort Asherah, to, by the end of the Babylonian captivity, the only god, and then, through Paul and the renunciation of the covenant, a universal rather than a tribal god. (Then, three centuries or so after the NT was written, a triune god.)

 

[blü 2]

I could take one verse from Genesis another from John's Gospel, a dash from Paul's Epistles, a sprinkling from Hebrews, seasoned by verse from Revelation and hey presto , God has wings, is made of wood has hinges , has a sword protruding from his mouth . salvation is by works , faith only , circumcision, not circumcision, free gift , at a cost , there is no more Jew ,gentile distinction, but there different, Water Baptism is necessary but not necessary and on and on and on and on ....

Yup, something for everyone! The Big Department Store.

 

[sayak83]

The topic is evidence of resurrected Christ. Paul was somehow with him (no matter how) and talked with him. This completely changed Paul's life...

Visions are known to do this. Having visions of a person does not provide evidence that the person resurrected. That is my point.

 

[sayak83]

Also what do you mean by "won't work."?
This is not a machine, so please explain what you mean by that.... work for whom, or what?

Won't work to convince people who do not already believe in the Bible.

 

[sayak83]

Please, just from the OP alone, list the faith-based statements... numbering 1 to ...

Can't do this on a phone. Please wait for a few days.

 

[PearlSeeker]

Visions are known to do this. Having visions of a person does not provide evidence that the person resurrected. That is my point.

If you can talk to a person (after death) then he is (still) alive. That's my point.

 

[John1.12]

Two things.

First, you have the references so you can check the contexts to your heart's content.

Second, in the real world the bible is not perfect, error-free, infallible or magic. It's a collection of ancient texts setting out folktales, folk history, real history, laws, genealogies, songs, poems, stories, wisdom, politics and polemics, some with more than one author, all except Paul and Luke/Acts by different authors, and again excepting Paul, all with unknown authors who are humans.

They're historical artifacts and each book is to be understood in the same way any ancient manuscript is to be understood ─ where, when, who, what, why.

And exactly as you'd expect, they're full of what we now see as errors of fact, and they contradict each other, not least because they set out the evolution of God from one of many in the Canaanite pantheon, probably with a consort Asherah, to, by the end of the Babylonian captivity, the only god, and then, through Paul and the renunciation of the covenant, a universal rather than a tribal god. (Then, three centuries or so after the NT was written, a triune god.)

I believe the verses quoted are out of context. That was my point . When someone can walk through each verse and explain the context and the narrative it shows that he's not just ' proof texting '. I find there's a certain set of glasses and coupled with a certain worldview ,some people's bible reading reflects that.
//in the real world the bible is not perfect, error-free, // I disagree. I believe God has preserved his word . This is reasonable, given the context of the bible.

 

[blü 2]

I believe the verses quoted are out of context.

Why are they out of context exactly?

One is a command not to kill.

Another is a command to kill and the killing is not in combat but systematic slaughter.

Don't kill / Kill

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Can you post a pic ?

You don't know how google works?
You type in "the blob" and then click "images".

It's just an alien "blob". Some slimy goo. No eyes, no ears, no hands or legs or paws or teeth or what-have-you. Just .. "blob" and it consumes/eats living things and actively hunts them.


Here's a picture of an ancient in SG1

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

The topic is evidence of resurrected Christ. Paul was somehow with him (no matter how) and talked with him. This completely changed Paul's life...

It is very valid to point out that people of all religions have experiences that they interpret in such fashion, as it completely undermines the validity of this "evidence".

Because now, you need an extra special explanation as to why Paul's "vision" or whatever is more credible then all those others - many of whom are actually alive today and available for questioning instead of being dead 2000 years already and whose claims have reached us to a ridiculously long succession of copies of copies of copies of translations of copies of translations of copies etc.

It seems to me that the easiest, most probable and rather obvious explanation, is that all people who claim such experiences are just wrong and that it rather says something about human psychology and cognition.

 

[sayak83]

If you can talk to a person (after death) then he is (still) alive. That's my point.

A vision can be a mental projection or a spirit.

 

[John1.12]

Why are they out of context exactly?

One is a command not to kill.

Another is a command to kill and the killing is not in combat but systematic slaughter.

Don't kill / Kill

One thing to Murder
Another if God takes the life he created .
Another if God Commands it as Judgment .