Health Care and the US Elections

[Pogo]

...what about those who can't afford Medicare?

Medicaid.

my little avacado

 

[sun rise]

..would love to see a non-politically motivated study done that did a real comparison between socialized medicine and what the US has..

Outside of misusing the word "socialized", I agree, because what many other nations have is not true "socialized" medicine where everyone works for the government.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Let’s not ignore that the United States leads the world in medical innovation and technology. There must be some reason for that, and I sometimes wonder if we go too far down the socialist route, if the United States will lose its innovative edge to the detriment of the world.

Or another possibility: in a socialized medical system, the portion of health care costs currently going to things like stock buybacks would be freed up to spend on things like stable, predictable funding for medical research.

 

[Estro Felino]

Medicaid.

my little avacado

What makes me really happy is that the Millennials and the Gen Z are mostly childless. The Gen Z almost entirely.
They don't want to produce babies in this Hellish society of greedy people cashing on people's health problems.

 

[Estro Felino]

Or another possibility: in a socialized medical system, the portion of health care costs currently going to things like stock buybacks would be freed up to spend on things like stable, predictable funding for medical research.

In a socialized healthcare system the money circulates because it is issued by the State. It doesn't end up in the pockets of greedy insurance companies.

 

[Wu Wei]

Outside of misusing the word "socialized", I agree, because what many other nations have is not true "socialized" medicine where everyone works for the government.

Yeah whatever

You never answered my question...how are the police and fire socialized

 

[Pogo]

Let’s not ignore that the United States leads the world in medical innovation and technology. There must be some reason for that, and I sometimes wonder if we go too far down the socialist route, if the United States will lose its innovative edge to the detriment of the world.

Yeah, the US government.

Who is the largest source of funding for medical research?


The National Institutes of Health is the largest public funder of biomedical research in the world.

Pharmaceutical companies take this basic research and monetize it, they only research stuff that has a large profit potential,

 

[Pogo]

I'm against insurance companies, CEOs that get wealthy while patients suffer etc. Medical innovation needs to be taken into account as you note.

copy for you
Who is the largest source of funding for medical research?


The National Institutes of Health is the largest public funder of biomedical research in the world.

 

[Kathryn]

As Americans, we are spoiled to short wait times, private or semi private rooms, etc. Many countries that offer socialized medicine also hope (or even require) that the citizens carry private insurance as well.

 

[Kathryn]

And I am no fan of private insurance, believe me.

 

[sun rise]

Yeah whatever

You never answered my question...how are the police and fire socialized

I missed the question in too many posts. They are government employees at various government levels from local to national.

 

[Wu Wei]

I missed the question in too many posts. They are government employees at various government levels from local to national.

Thank You

Not the same as socialized medicine, not even close, but OK.... and does not make the system Socialism.... but OK...... seems, at least, IMO, a silly example to use to justify socialized medicine or socialism.... But then the same could be said for the military or any city, county, municipality, state, federal government employee.... anyone receiving, unemployment or Government assistance....

 

[fantome profane]

Cons

• Increased taxes: Socialized medicine may require higher taxes.

People have to pay for healthcare regardless of what system you use, but a socialized system has been shown to be more efficient, and less expensive.

• Wait times: There may be wait times for medical procedures.

In a private system people who don't have the money or insurance that will pay for their medical procedure often choose to wait while they save up enough money, and those are the lucky ones.

• National debt: Socialized medicine may add to the national debt.

A stable reliable healthcare system is good for the economy. A healthier workforce is better for the workers, and better for the employers.

• Reduced choice: Some argue that individuals would lose some choice under socialized medicine.

Some individuals might lose some choice, but most would have expanded options. It certainly would be a more equitable system.

• Quality of care: Some fear that the quality of care would erode if doctors and nurses became government employees.

I don't see any evidence of this at all. But even if it were so, it would still increase the quality of care for the majority, who would suddenly have some access, rather than none.

 

[Watchmen]

Or another possibility: in a socialized medical system, the portion of health care costs currently going to things like stock buybacks would be freed up to spend on things like stable, predictable funding for medical research.

Why doesn’t that happen in existing socialist focused countries? Why don’t those countries lead in medical innovation?

 

[Estro Felino]

As Americans, we are spoiled to short wait times, private or semi private rooms, etc. Many countries that offer socialized medicine also hope (or even require) that the citizens carry private insurance as well.

Exactly.
The two systems can coexist perfectly.
And I can promise you that the wealthy don't go to state hospitals here.

 

[Estro Felino]

Thanatophobia is a psychiatric problem many people from rich countries have.
So they believe that some expensive efficient medical system will make them immortal.

Science has proved that immortality will never exist...and medicine can help us have a better existence...but will never make us immortals.
There is also psychiatry that can heal certain phobias.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Let’s not ignore that the United States leads the world in medical innovation and technology. There must be some reason for that, and I sometimes wonder if we go too far down the socialist route, if the United States will lose its innovative edge to the detriment of the world.

Not sure how you think that is in any way related to how health care plans are run.
The insurance companies don't do any research. They just pay the bills (or try their best to find reasons not to).
Do you think private insurance companies spend billions on pharmaceutical or medical research?

The research is done primarily by universities. Pharma also does R&D off course, but usually they just build upon research done by scientific centers (like harvard medical school and alike).

Many countries that have universal health care programs do plenty of great research and are also leading players in various area's. Belgium's universities for example, a very small country compared to most others, is a very big player in cancer research.

Not clear to me at all why people think that innovation and research would be impacted if private health insurance companies wouldn't be part of the equation in public health care systems.

 

[Wirey]

Thank You

Not the same as socialized medicine, not even close, but OK.... and does not make the system Socialism.... but OK...... seems, at least, IMO, a silly example to use to justify socialized medicine or socialism.... But then the same could be said for the military or any city, county, municipality, state, federal government employee.... anyone receiving, unemployment or Government assistance....

Exactly socialism. Taxes are collected from everyone and used to provide necessary services to everyone, free of charge. That's exactly socialism. If you'd like to claim that fire and police services aren't a form of socialism, please post a picture of someone's police or fire bill. There isn't one, because they're socialism. Just like schools. Roads. Power distribution. The military. Snow removal. Garbage collection. Park lawn mowing. All of it, all socialist.

The problem is a bunch of right wing nut jobs have tried to equate "Socialism" with "Evil". And it's working. The great thing about people who get their education from social media is how easy it is to trick them into voting against their own best interests. Socialism is nothing more than the members of a rational society pooling resources so they can all live. Sharing a plow and horse in a village in the old days was socialism. Giving incredibly rich people the opportunity to sit on a slightly larger pile of treasure while a poor person looses everything because they were unlucky enough to get sick is the actual opposite of socialism.

I was unlucky enough to get very sick, like maybe going to die sick. I was lucky enough to live in the Socialist Worker's Paradise of Canuckistan, so my medical bills throughout the whole thing were primarily some prescriptions and parking at the hospital (which should be f$%^ing free if you're sick). I still have all my money, my house, my car, and do you know why? I live in a country where a guy named Tommy Douglas (distant relative of Donald and Keifer Sutherland, as fate would have it) said being sick shouldn't break you and make you poor. It's bad luck, and no one deserves to be destroyed because they're unlucky.

 

[Kathryn]

I just have to speak up about the US, and garbage collection. Here in Ohio we pay for it and are charged extra for extra pickups, recycling, etc.

 

[Wu Wei]

Exactly socialism. Taxes are collected from everyone and used to provide necessary services to everyone, free of charge. That's exactly socialism. If you'd like to claim that fire and police services aren't a form of socialism, please post a picture of someone's police or fire bill. There isn't one, because they're socialism. Just like schools. Roads. Power distribution. The military. Snow removal. Garbage collection. Park lawn mowing. All of it, all socialist.

The problem is a bunch of right wing nut jobs have tried to equate "Socialism" with "Evil". And it's working. The great thing about people who get their education from social media is how easy it is to trick them into voting against their own best interests. Socialism is nothing more than the members of a rational society pooling resources so they can all live. Sharing a plow and horse in a village in the old days was socialism. Giving incredibly rich people the opportunity to sit on a slightly larger pile of treasure while a poor person looses everything because they were unlucky enough to get sick is the actual opposite of socialism.

I was unlucky enough to get very sick, like maybe going to die sick. I was lucky enough to live in the Socialist Worker's Paradise of Canuckistan, so my medical bills throughout the whole thing were primarily some prescriptions and parking at the hospital (which should be f$%^ing free if you're sick). I still have all my money, my house, my car, and do you know why? I live in a country where a guy named Tommy Douglas (distant relative of Donald and Keifer Sutherland, as fate would have it) said being sick shouldn't break you and make you poor. It's bad luck, and no one deserves to be destroyed because they're unlucky.

stop, your Canadian, and obviously know little abot Texas
Socialism is a political and economic theory that advocates for public ownership of property and natural resources, rather than private ownership

Police, fire, and such, do not fall under the above definition.... receive. bill...obviously you know nothing about taxes we pay.....

Medical, whoopy doopy, nothing new, yup I know..... been there done that, was rather impressed when I had to go to the emergency room in Norway....

Listen, you want to argue with someone about socialism, I'm not the guy, I'm not against it, I'm not for it, I'm not threatened by it. However I do have a good grasp on reality in the USA and its current state of political stupidity. I am however fed the hell up with politics, and the politicization of every damn thing and this ridiculous "We are part socialism": discussion from folks, from places other than here, and those from here and especially those from here, that have no clue what-so-ever what politics and politicians are really like, other than what they are spoon fed by their chosen political messiah, or what they get from the propaganda that agrees with them that they refuse to research to find out if it is reality or not ..... so please...move on, find someone else to preach to, and or argue with, I guarantee you, I am not the guy.....TTFN