Heaven is a Police State

[Guitar's Cry]

God is in charge
the angels carry swords

and you will show up at the gate.....

expecting freedom?

Heaven is the disintegration of the Self into the Whole. The flaming sword guarding Eden destroys the ego, allowing the removal of concepts like "freedom," but as a symbol, freedom from slavery of the ego seems appropriate.

 

[halbhh]

I cannot stand with any god who wpuld condemn Frankenstein's Creature. He was only guilty of being created and being hated. He hated because he was hated and feared. If a god could hold such a person eternally guilty for reacting in a way that reflected how he was treated by others, that is a god not worthy of my respect.

From that, I know you'd like a lot of what is in the scriptures then, when read in a more full way (entire passages, instead of isolated bits). Even the account of Christ meeting the Woman at the Well is such a story. He came to save sinners and also generally for the sake of those who have been battered by life, see, and didn't come to help the self-righteous at all.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

From that, I know you'd like a lot of what is in the scriptures then, when read in a more full way (entire passages, instead of isolated bits). Even the account of Christ meeting the Woman at the Well is such a story. He came to save sinners and also generally for the sake of those who have been battered by life, see, and didn't come to help the self-righteous at all.

Being of Christ's flock did do massive damage to my overall being by being a source of torment, misery, and it is how I was able to learn to hate myself. The Church of hjs was toxic and abusive. And Jehovah has demanded my execution on several charges.
I shan't be returning to him.

 

[halbhh]

Being of Christ's flock did do massive damage to my overall being by being a source of torment, misery, and it is how I was able to learn to hate myself. The Church of hjs was toxic and abusive. And Jehovah has demanded my execution on several charges.
I shan't be returning to him.

There are a lot of churches that have very little (and not just a few that have none at all) of what Christ said to do in them.

I'm glad you left that kind of situation and that kind of church!

 

[Shadow Wolf]

There are a lot of churches that have very little (and not just a few that have none at all) of what Christ said to do in them.

Funny, they said the exact same thing.

 

[Messianic Israelite]

God is in charge
the angels carry swords

and you will show up at the gate.....

expecting freedom?

Why would you have a problem with heavenly beings carrying swords, and not rather the unrighteous, some of whom are the police, carrying weapons in this day and age? I don't know about you but I could sleep easy knowing that my city were guarded by heavenly beings. For the life of me I don't understand why you would have a problem with this.

 

[Thief]

Why would you have a problem with heavenly beings carrying swords, and not rather the unrighteous, some of whom are the police, carrying weapons in this day and age? I don't know about you but I could sleep easy knowing that my city were guarded by heavenly beings. For the life of me I don't understand why you would have a problem with this.

I was not complaining
just saying.....

and of course....there's (was) Sodom and Gomorrah

that didn't go well

 

[Thief]

Heaven is the disintegration of the Self into the Whole. The flaming sword guarding Eden destroys the ego, allowing the removal of concepts like "freedom," but as a symbol, freedom from slavery of the ego seems appropriate.

you will be assimilated

resistance is futile

but no....of course not
there's no point in creating a unique form to in turn create unique spirit
only to destroy that quality of being......you

 

[Messianic Israelite]

I was not complaining
just saying.....

and of course....there's (was) Sodom and Gomorrah

that didn't go well

Hi Thief. Good afternoon. Sodom and Gomorrah was an evil place. You know that, I know that. It doesn't matter what angle you look at the Kingdom of Yahweh from, it will be glorious. I many times meditate on the beauty of the New Jerusalem and how glorious that heavenly city will look when it is upon the earth. I wonder with excitement at how the saints will be beautified with Yahweh's salvation and what we as spirit beings will look like. I wonder what the atmosphere of that Kingdom will be like, when children will be playing out on the streets without fear of deadly things or predatory people. Without murders, or stealing, or people committing adultery, or profanely using the Name. I wonder what some of those songs will be like in the Kingdom, praising Yahweh for His grace and mercy and for His wonderful plan of salvation. I wonder of the glories that will be bestowed upon Yahshua, the Messiah, when He comes to take rulership of this world and bring it in subjection to what this planet was originally intended.

 

[Thief]

Hi Thief. Good afternoon. Sodom and Gomorrah was an evil place. You know that, I know that. It doesn't matter what angle you look at the Kingdom of Yahweh from, it will be glorious. I many times meditate on the beauty of the New Jerusalem and how glorious that heavenly city will look when it is upon the earth. I wonder with excitement at how the saints will be beautified with Yahweh's salvation and what we as spirit beings will look like. I wonder what the atmosphere of that Kingdom will be like, when children will be playing out on the streets without fear of deadly things or predatory people. Without murders, or stealing, or people committing adultery, or profanely using the Name. I wonder what some of those songs will be like in the Kingdom, praising Yahweh for His grace and mercy and for His wonderful plan of salvation. I wonder of the glories that will be bestowed upon Yahshua, the Messiah, when He comes to take rulership of this world and bring it in subjection to what this planet was originally intended.

I have read.....the kingdom is not of this world
I lean to that

I believe we forsake the flesh
and in spirit we share what we think and feel
whatever we might dream

I also believe the peace of heaven is guarded
and the Hierarchy of heaven can.....and will be.... firm about it

otherwise.....Somewhere Over the Rainbow

 

[halbhh]

Funny, they said the exact same thing.

I learned also, like you, to look at what people do, not what they claim or say...

I left a bad church.

And I learned more, from over time attending a wide variety (8 denominations, perhaps 30 different congregations visited over the years...).

I learned to watch for the real attitudes and actions.

He said:

Matthew 7:12 In everything, then, do to others as you would have them do to you. For this is the essence of the Law and the Prophets.

John 13:34 A new commandment I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so also you must love one another. John 13:35 By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you love one another."

As you can see, He said clear and precise commands, and He said:

John 14:15 If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.

So, I don't give too much credence to what people in churches claim....

No.

I watch what they do.

Are they genuinely loving?

Your experience you mentioned shows that some did wrongs towards you that show they were not doing as He said. I had similar experiences in some ways in some places.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I learned also, like you, to look at what people do, not what they claim or say...

I left a bad church.

And I learned more, from over time attending a wide variety (8 denominations, perhaps 30 different congregations visited over the years...).

I learned to watch for the real attitudes and actions.

He said:

Matthew 7:12 In everything, then, do to others as you would have them do to you. For this is the essence of the Law and the Prophets.

John 13:34 A new commandment I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so also you must love one another. John 13:35 By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you love one another."

As you can see, He said clear and precise commands, and He said:

John 14:15 If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.

So, I don't give too much credence to what people in churches claim....

No.

I watch what they do.

Are they genuinely loving?

Your experience you mentioned shows that some did wrongs towards you that show they were not doing as He said. I had similar experiences in some ways in some places.

I did indicate a part of the problem was the people. But I also pointed out another problem is the god himself. He wants me dead.

 

[halbhh]

I did indicate a part of the problem was the people. But I also pointed out another problem is the god himself. He wants me dead.

What makes you think so?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

What makes you think so?

Cursing my father (Exodus 21:17)
I was a stubborn and rebellious child (Deuteronomy 21:18-21)
I'm trans, so depending on how you interpret that either either lying with man as he expects me to do with women if you see me as male (Leviticus 20:13), or for being a woman who isn't a virgin on her wedding night (Deuteronomy 22:21)
Apostasy (Deuteronomy 13:9)

 

[Guitar's Cry]

you will be assimilated

resistance is futile

but no....of course not
there's no point in creating a unique form to in turn create unique spirit
only to destroy that quality of being......you

The evidence suggests otherwise.

Forms come and go, being defined then reinterpreted.

The unique form of each life is ephemeral, dynamic and complex. When I die, it will be as a different being than I was when I was born, or even as I am now (even were I to die suddenly now), and the various parts of the Universe that I am aware of myself as being will simply reshape themselves into other definitions.

Of course, this consiousness that I refer to as "I" is only a drop in the water of the form it was defined by. "I" die, but that is only a shifting pattern.

You could equate it to the Borg and rage against the dying of the light, but darkness comes nonetheless.

 

[halbhh]

Cursing my father (Exodus 21:17)
I was a stubborn and rebellious child (Deuteronomy 21:18-21)
I'm trans, so depending on how you interpret that either either lying with man as he expects me to do with women if you see me as male (Leviticus 20:13), or for being a woman who isn't a virgin on her wedding night (Deuteronomy 22:21)
Apostasy (Deuteronomy 13:9)

We've all done similar. (in fact, I've done similar to all of those in my own way, earlier in youth) This is why Jesus of Nazareth said all He did -- to address the reality that we all have done such things, or other things just as significant in other ways. He created a new path to be reconciled, so that we are all forgiven for our own wrongs (of whatever kind) that we all have done, anyone/everyone, if we rely on the forgiveness to us through Christ. In the new testament we learn that all have sinned, and none are able to be good enough on their own, basically (that's in Romans). Some even say that if we have done even just one serious wrong, we are just as guilty as someone that did numerous wrongs (in fact, Paul wrote something like that) -- or we are until we simply turn to Him, admitting the wrongs.

 

[Thief]

The evidence suggests otherwise.

Forms come and go, being defined then reinterpreted.

The unique form of each life is ephemeral, dynamic and complex. When I die, it will be as a different being than I was when I was born, or even as I am now (even were I to die suddenly now), and the various parts of the Universe that I am aware of myself as being will simply reshape themselves into other definitions.

Of course, this consiousness that I refer to as "I" is only a drop in the water of the form it was defined by. "I" die, but that is only a shifting pattern.

You could equate it to the Borg and rage against the dying of the light, but darkness comes nonetheless.

if you insist on being assimilated.....ok

I would rather find my place among the many others that have thoughts and feelings to share

if I spend one year of time with all that survive the last breath
one at a time
I will be busy for 7billion years

and you might not be aware of anything

 

[Guitar's Cry]

if you insist on being assimilated.....ok

I would rather find my place among the many others that have thoughts and feelings to share

if I spend one year of time with all that survive the last breath
one at a time
I will be busy for 7billion years

and you might not be aware of anything

What will be the basis for these thoughts and feelings if not the collection of data and modeling that occurs in a brain subjected to the specific conditions of your current experience? And how will this thinking and feeling experience be related to this dynamic collection of stuff that makes you up currently?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

we learn that all have sinned,

This is a concept I do not accept as valid, nor do I accept or ascribe to this concept of sinner.

We've all done similar

Not true. Such as you, who are not an apostate.

Some even say that if we have done even just one serious wrong, we are just as guilty as someone that did numerous wrongs

Nope. People do what they do. There is no "i only did this but you did all these." Such trivial comparisons are for chuldre who are incapable of reasoning beyong such simplicity.

 

[halbhh]

Nope. People do what they do. There is no "i only did this but you did all these." Such trivial comparisons are for chuldre who are incapable of reasoning beyong such simplicity.

Trying to get what you mean, perhaps you are saying it matters how bad the thing is? That's my view. Murder is far worse than something like tax evasion, which itself is worse than small littering. This view also is aligned with how Christ spoke of wrongdoing, that some is more weighty than others. We are only saying the normal view of most all people on this though.