Heaven or Hell | The choice is yours

[839311]

As I said, God has provided a way of escape from eternal torment and does not desire that anyone face such torment...

...even though he created hell to begin with knowing that the majority of humans, who God himself created flawed, would fail to meet his ridiculous entry standards...

:redcard:

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

P.S. I've heard it is best never to say "never".

In this case, I'll risk it. :yes:

 

[McBell]

As I said, God has provided a way of escape from eternal torment and does not desire that anyone face such torment. You certainly don't have to believe me and you shouldn't take my word for anything which relates to something as important as eternity. But have you ever sincerely asked God directly about your eternity or do you just prefer to mock and make light of it presuming you have all the answers?

Interesting how you would accuse others of "having all the answers" when YOU are the only one who is blatantly flaunting said behavior.

 

[InChrist]

...even though he created hell to begin with knowing that the majority of humans, who God himself created flawed, would fail to meet his ridiculous entry standards...

:redcard:

It was not created for humans but for satan and his followers the demons. Humans were not created flawed by God, it was their choice to follow satan and sin which flawed God's perfect and good creation.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

It was not created for humans but for satan and his followers the demons. Humans were not created flawed by God, it was their choice to follow satan and sin which flawed God's perfect and good creation.

Does that start to make sense if you repeat it enough times?

 

[McBell]

Does that start to make sense if you repeat it enough times?

I am thinking it must.
For there are lots of people who push it like a drug.

Though, to be honest, I am not really sure who it is they are trying to convince...
everyone else, or themselves.

 

[InChrist]

Interesting how you would accuse others of "having all the answers" when YOU are the only one who is blatantly flaunting said behavior.

You know, I am no different than you. I would never have come up the "answers" or the teachings of the scriptures like; "I am a sinner in need of a Savior" or "Jesus Christ is the way, the truth, and the life." or "Satan hates God and people and holds humans captive and wants to destroy them" and applied them to my own life had God not shown me these things are true. I only accept God's word as truth believing Him to have all the answers which are His, not mine. I am very sorry if you think I am flaunting answers as if I came up with them myself.

 

[Protester]

It was not created for humans but for satan and his followers the demons. Humans were not created flawed by God, it was their choice to follow satan and sin which flawed God's perfect and good creation.

Hmm

Is hell real? Is hell eternal?

How is eternity in hell a fair punishment for sin?

Just so we arewe are all on the same page, a definition is in order:

American Tract Dictionary (1859)

The Hebrews SHEOL, and the Greek HADES, usually translated hell, often signify the place of departed spirits, Ps 16:10 Isa 14:9 Eze 31:16. Here was the rich man, after being buried, Lu 16:23. The above and many other passages in the Old Testament show the futility of that opinion which attributes to the Hebrews an ignorance of a future state.
The term hell is most commonly applied to the place of punishment in the unseen world, and is usually represented in the Greek New Testament by the word Gehenna, valley of Hinnom. See HINNOM. In 2Pe 2:4, the rebellious angels are said, in the original Greek, to have been cast down into "Tartarus," this being the Grecian name of the lowest abyss of Hades. Other expressions are also used, indicating the dreadfulness of the anguish there to be endured. It is called "outer darkness," "flame," "furnace of fire," "unquenchable fire," "fire and brimstone," etc., Mt 8:12 13:42 22:13 25:20,41 Mr 9:43-48 Jud 1:13 Re 20:14. The misery of hell will consist in the privation of the vision and love of God, exclusion from every source of happiness, perpetual sin, remorse of conscience in view of the past, malevolent passions, the sense of the just anger of God, and all other sufferings of body and soul which in the nature of things are the natural results of sin, or which the law of God requires as penal inflictions. The degrees of anguish will be proportioned to the degrees of guilt, Mt 10:15 23:14 Lu 12:47,48. And these punishments will be eternal, like the happiness of heaven. The wrath of God will never cease to abide upon the lost soul, and it will always be "the wrath to come."

Romans 11
13 For I speak to you who are Gentiles. Since then as I am an apostle to Gentiles, I glorify my ministry; 14 if by any means I may provoke to jealousy those who are my flesh, and may save some of them. 15 For if the rejection of them is the reconciling of the world, what would their acceptance be, but life from the dead? 16 If the first fruit is holy, so is the lump. If the root is holy, so are the branches. 17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them, and became partaker with them of the root and of the richness of the olive tree; 18 don’t boast over the branches. But if you boast, it is not you who support the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.” 20 True; by their unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by your faith. Don’t be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God didn’t spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. 22 See then the goodness and severity of God. Toward those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in his goodness; otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 They also, if they don’t continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24 For if you were cut out of that which is by nature a wild olive tree, and were grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree, how much more will these, which are the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree? 25 For I don’t desire you to be ignorant, brothers, of this mystery, so that you won’t be wise in your own conceits, that a partial hardening has happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in, 26 and so all Israel will be saved. Even as it is written,
“There will come out of Zion the Deliverer,
and he will turn away ungodliness from Jacob.
27 This is my covenant to them,
when I will take away their sins.”

28 Concerning the Good News, they are enemies for your sake. But concerning the election, they are beloved for the fathers’ sake. 29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 30 For as you in time past were disobedient to God, but now have obtained mercy by their disobedience, 31 even so these also have now been disobedient, that by the mercy shown to you they may also obtain mercy. 32 For God has shut up all to disobedience, that he might have mercy on all.

33 Oh the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and the knowledge of God! How unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past tracing out!
34 “For who has known the mind of the Lord?
Or who has been his counselor?”
35 “Or who has first given to him,
and it will be repaid to him again?”

36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things. To him be the glory for ever! Amen.---World English Bible

As the very last verseit's emphasized by me, to show that everything is for the glory of God, and not done because man is so good or great. What is the Glory of God? and because of God's glory we are to glorify Him--What does it mean to glorify God?

All the URLs that I have put up, are to short monographs, so they won't take very long for you to look over.

 

[InChrist]

Hmm

Is hell real? Is hell eternal?

How is eternity in hell a fair punishment for sin?

Just so we arewe are all on the same page, a definition is in order:


As the very last verseit's emphasized by me, to show that everything is for the glory of God, and not done because man is so good or great. What is the Glory of God? and because of God's glory we are to glorify Him--What does it mean to glorify God?

All the URLs that I have put up, are to short monographs, so they won't take very long for you to look over.

Thanks for your comments and links. I have no disagreement with you. I did not mean it to sound as if humans do not go to hell. I only meant that was not God's desire as He originally prepared hell or everlasting punishment for satan and the demons and desires to see humans repent and be saved.

“Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels Matthew 25:41

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

It was not created for humans but for satan and his followers the demons. Humans were not created flawed by God, it was their choice to follow satan and sin which flawed God's perfect and good creation.

And who created Satan and the demons?

 

[mr black]

God is infinite and yet god has desires?

desires to see humans repent and be saved.

 

[religion99]

God is infinite and yet god has desires?

Valid Proposition.

Corollaries of above Proposition:


1. If there is a God , He cannot have desires.

2. If someone have desires , he is not God.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

The god you believe in is small and petty, but this is not the true God…the Creator of heaven and earth. I’d say you have a flawed view of sin, also. The scriptures indicate that God does not look at any sin as trivial or innocuous. Sin is dangerous and infectious and it will continue to grow and perpetuate itself when left unchecked. According to His revealed word, God’s perspective says that everyone is under bondage to sin and satan. Out of His sacrificial love He has provided a means of escape through Jesus the Savior. It has nothing to do with different theological beliefs. If anyone refuses the way of escape they face a self-inflicted eternity of torment brought about by clinging to sin and by being forever with the malevolent demonic beings which will also be there. So the choice is yours. No one will be able to blame God.

I do not choose your God. I once did, and I was not at peace.

I am now at peace.

 

[McBell]

The god you believe in is small and petty, but this is not the true God…the Creator of heaven and earth. I’d say you have a flawed view of sin, also. The scriptures indicate that God does not look at any sin as trivial or innocuous. Sin is dangerous and infectious and it will continue to grow and perpetuate itself when left unchecked. According to His revealed word, God’s perspective says that everyone is under bondage to sin and satan. Out of His sacrificial love He has provided a means of escape through Jesus the Savior. It has nothing to do with different theological beliefs. If anyone refuses the way of escape they face a self-inflicted eternity of torment brought about by clinging to sin and by being forever with the malevolent demonic beings which will also be there. So the choice is yours. No one will be able to blame God.

What makes you think your opinion is any better than every one else's opinion?

 

[waitasec]

Lets say you die and find out that there really is a Heaven and a Hell. Lets also say that you're told Hell is full of all your friends and those few family members you actually like while Heaven is full of all those self righteous evangelicals you despise. Now, you're given a choice; Heaven or Hell? Which would you choose? Why?

one detail you forgot to mention...

are there m&m's with peanuts in hell or would it be too hot and melt in my hands?

 

[waitasec]

The god you believe in is small and petty

so is yours


emphasis mine...

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

one detail you forgot to mention...

are there m&m's with peanuts in hell or would it be too hot and melt in my hands?

In Hell where there be Candy coated chocolate M&M's or will Hells floor just be covered in melted chocolate? - Yahoo! Answers

 

[Inthedark]

Lets say you die and find out that there really is a Heaven and a Hell. Lets also say that you're told Hell is full of all your friends and those few family members you actually like while Heaven is full of all those self righteous evangelicals you despise. Now, you're given a choice; Heaven or Hell? Which would you choose? Why?

This has been an interesting wee journey from page 1 to 12. I thought I might chip in if you don't mind because nobody has yet mentioned heaven and hell as being states of mind in the here and now.

The attainment horizon is heaven, or enlightenment, and the failure to reach that goal being a state of ongoing torment and confusion. I would say many individuals have been enlightened and been able to understand and convey universal truths, which tend to transcend religion; the usual suspects being Jesus, Gandhi, Buddha etc.

With heaven and hell as this metaphor, I would say I operate inbetween, aiming for heaven whilst verging on falling into hell.

 

[Protester]

Thanks for your comments and links. I have no disagreement with you. I did not mean it to sound as if humans do not go to hell. I only meant that was not God's desire as He originally prepared hell or everlasting punishment for satan and the demons and desires to see humans repent and be saved.

“Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels Matthew 25:41

:yes:

 

[fishy]

Thanks for your comments and links. I have no disagreement with you. I did not mean it to sound as if humans do not go to hell. I only meant that was not God's desire as He originally prepared hell or everlasting punishment for satan and the demons and desires to see humans repent and be saved.

Surely if an omnipotent being desires something, it would get exactly what it desires.