Her name was Amber Nicole Thurman ...

[Jayhawker Soule]

From ProPublica:

In her final hours, Amber Nicole Thurman suffered from a grave infection that her suburban Atlanta hospital was well-equipped to treat.​

​

She’d taken abortion pills and encountered a rare complication; she had not expelled all of the fetal tissue from her body. She showed up at Piedmont Henry Hospital in need of a routine procedure to clear it from her uterus, called a dilation and curettage, or D&C.​

​

But just that summer, her state had made performing the procedure a felony, with few exceptions. Any doctor who violated the new Georgia law could be prosecuted and face up to a decade in prison.​

​

Thurman waited in pain in a hospital bed, worried about what would happen to her 6-year-old son, as doctors monitored her infection spreading, her blood pressure sinking and her organs beginning to fail.​

​

It took 20 hours for doctors to finally operate. By then, it was too late.​

Elections have consequences ...

 

[Soandso]

Another tragically unnecessary death

 

[Heyo]

From ProPublica:

In her final hours, Amber Nicole Thurman suffered from a grave infection that her suburban Atlanta hospital was well-equipped to treat.​

​

She’d taken abortion pills and encountered a rare complication; she had not expelled all of the fetal tissue from her body. She showed up at Piedmont Henry Hospital in need of a routine procedure to clear it from her uterus, called a dilation and curettage, or D&C.​

​

But just that summer, her state had made performing the procedure a felony, with few exceptions. Any doctor who violated the new Georgia law could be prosecuted and face up to a decade in prison.​

​

Thurman waited in pain in a hospital bed, worried about what would happen to her 6-year-old son, as doctors monitored her infection spreading, her blood pressure sinking and her organs beginning to fail.​

​

It took 20 hours for doctors to finally operate. By then, it was too late.​

Elections have consequences ...

Just yesterday, I saw a YouTube video by Stephen Woodford (Rationality Rules) explaining how facts don't change minds.
Therefore, it is a good praxis to put names and faces to stories that speak to people.

I'd call cases like these "law mandated negligent homicide". And I hope someone is suing the State of Georgia for passing the laws that lead to death.

 

[Estro Felino]

Honestly I can't understand how she could afford abortion pills, but couldn't afford a package of Yasminelle.
Hormonal pills.

This really shocks me. We all take hormonal pills... and despite some side effect, we are alive.

I am sorry...but I cannot empathize. Birth control is infinitely much cheaper than abortion pills.

 

[Estro Felino]

Just yesterday, I saw a YouTube video by Stephen Woodford (Rationality Rules) explaining how facts don't change minds.
Therefore, it is a good praxis to put names and faces to stories that speak to people.

I'd call cases like these "law mandated negligent homicide". And I hope someone is suing the State of Georgia for passing the laws that lead to death.

It's because in Europe women take the pill, so the risk of unwanted pregnancies is very low.

 

[Heyo]

It's because in Europe women take the pill, so the risk of unwanted pregnancies is very low.

You again missed the point. It is not about Amber Nicole Thurman having taken an abortion pill, it is about her not having been treated when her life was in danger. And about the laws that lead to the doctors waiting too long.
There is also the story of Amanda Zurawsky, who barely survived the Texas abortion laws. She had a miscarriage and doctors had to wait until she developed sepsis before performing the abortion.

Her story starts at the 9:00 mark.
Are you OK with letting women die because they had a miscarriage? Texas lawmakers are. They don't trust doctors to do their work properly and rather have some women die than an abortion performed that a doctor deemed necessary but might not have been.
Such people are so dogmatic that they have lost all compassion. None of these are "pro-life", they are anti-abortion - even if it costs lives.
And they don't deserve the benefit of Hanlon's Razor. They have been informed of the dangers their laws would pose. They ignored the warnings deliberately, not out of mere incompetence.
You say, you're a lawyer. Do you agree that that is negligent homicide?

 

[Estro Felino]

You again missed the point. It is not about Amber Nicole Thurman having taken an abortion pill, it is about her not having been treated when her life was in danger. And about the laws that lead to the doctors waiting too long.

You misunderstood me.
I do condemn those who didn't save her life.
It's heart-breaking...and it's so horrible that these physicians will face no consequences.
But we are not in the Stone Age any more... there are alternatives. She also could have fled to another state.

There is also the story of Amanda Zurawsky, who barely survived the Texas abortion laws. She had a miscarriage and doctors had to wait until she developed sepsis before performing the abortion.

Her story starts at the 9:00 mark.
Are you OK with letting women die because they had a miscarriage?

That is horrible.
But in this case it was not a miscarriage.
It was a woman who took an abortion pill...when she could have taken the Yasminelle for 28 days a month, as many women do.

A woman doesn't get pregnant by the virtue of the Holy Spirit... sex is something only responsible adults should have.

Texas lawmakers are. They don't trust doctors to do their work properly and rather have some women die than an abortion performed that a doctor deemed necessary but might not have been.
Such people are so dogmatic that they have lost all compassion. None of these are "pro-life", they are anti-abortion - even if it costs lives.
And they don't deserve the benefit of Hanlon's Razor. They have been informed of the dangers their laws would pose. They ignored the warnings deliberately, not out of mere incompetence.
You say, you're a lawyer. Do you agree that that is negligent homicide?

No...it's criminal to let a woman die.

 

[crossfire]

Honestly I can't understand how she could afford abortion pills, but couldn't afford a package of Yasminelle.
Hormonal pills.

This really shocks me. We all take hormonal pills... and despite some side effect, we are alive.

I am sorry...but I cannot empathize. Birth control is infinitely much cheaper than abortion pills.

I'm shocked that you are more shocked about her getting pregnant than you are about a common medical procedure that could have saved her life being outlawed by the state, with doctors in Georgia having to serve for up to 10 years in jail for doing the procedure. I guess you shouldn't ride in a car in Georgia while pregnant, because if you get in an accident, the doctors won't be able to treat you.

 

[Heyo]

No...it's criminal to let a woman die.

I get more and more the impression that you never studied law.
The doctors followed the law, which led to the woman's death - so it's not criminal in Georgia.
And the law may or may not be criminal (unconstitutional), at least it was voted for in a lawful process.
But the fact remains that no exception abortion laws can lead and have led to deaths.
That's why I want them to be challenged in a court of law and hope that the judges find them to be negligent homicides - which should be enough to overrule at least the "no exception" parts.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Honestly I can't understand how she could afford abortion pills, but couldn't afford a package of Yasminelle.
Hormonal pills.

This really shocks me. We all take hormonal pills... and despite some side effect, we are alive.

I am sorry...but I cannot empathize. Birth control is infinitely much cheaper than abortion pills.

Good job missing the point.

What a horrible thing to say.

 

[crossfire]

You misunderstood me.
I do condemn those who didn't save her life.
It's heart-breaking...and it's so horrible that these physicians will face no consequences.
But we are not in the Stone Age any more... there are alternatives. She also could have fled to another state.

She did try to flee to another state:

From the article:
Thurman, who carried the full load of a single parent, loved being a mother. Every chance she got, she took her son to petting zoos, to pop-up museums and on planned trips, like one to a Florida beach. “The talks I have with my son are everything,” she posted on social media.

But when she learned she was pregnant with twins in the summer of 2022, she quickly decided she needed to preserve her newfound stability, her best friend, Ricaria Baker, told ProPublica. Thurman and her son had recently moved out of her family’s home and into a gated apartment complex with a pool, and she was planning to enroll in nursing school.

The timing could not have been worse. On July 20, the day Georgia’s law banning abortion at six weeks went into effect, her pregnancy had just passed that mark, according to records her family shared with ProPublica.

Thurman wanted a surgical abortion close to home and held out hope as advocates tried to get the ban paused in court, Baker said. But as her pregnancy progressed to its ninth week, she couldn’t wait any longer. She scheduled a D&C in North Carolina, where abortion at that stage was still legal, and on Aug. 13 woke up at 4 a.m. to make the journey with her best friend.

On their drive, they hit standstill traffic, Baker said. The clinic couldn’t hold Thurman’s spot longer than 15 minutes — it was inundated with women from other states where bans had taken effect. Instead, a clinic employee offered Thurman a two-pill abortion regimen approved by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration, mifepristone and misoprostol. Her pregnancy was well within the standard of care for that treatment.​

 

[Estro Felino]

She did try to flee to another state:

From the article:​

Thurman, who carried the full load of a single parent, loved being a mother. Every chance she got, she took her son to petting zoos, to pop-up museums and on planned trips, like one to a Florida beach. “The talks I have with my son are everything,” she posted on social media.​

​

But when she learned she was pregnant with twins in the summer of 2022, she quickly decided she needed to preserve her newfound stability, her best friend, Ricaria Baker, told ProPublica. Thurman and her son had recently moved out of her family’s home and into a gated apartment complex with a pool, and she was planning to enroll in nursing school.​

​

The timing could not have been worse. On July 20, the day Georgia’s law banning abortion at six weeks went into effect, her pregnancy had just passed that mark, according to records her family shared with ProPublica.​

​

Thurman wanted a surgical abortion close to home and held out hope as advocates tried to get the ban paused in court, Baker said. But as her pregnancy progressed to its ninth week, she couldn’t wait any longer. She scheduled a D&C in North Carolina, where abortion at that stage was still legal, and on Aug. 13 woke up at 4 a.m. to make the journey with her best friend.​

​

On their drive, they hit standstill traffic, Baker said. The clinic couldn’t hold Thurman’s spot longer than 15 minutes — it was inundated with women from other states where bans had taken effect. Instead, a clinic employee offered Thurman a two-pill abortion regimen approved by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration, mifepristone and misoprostol. Her pregnancy was well within the standard of care for that treatment.​

Ninth week...so I suppose she had an abortion because it was an unwanted pregnancy?
How did she get pregnant?
Was she on the pill? Did she use protection?

 

[McBell]

Ninth week...so I suppose she had an abortion because it was an unwanted pregnancy?
How did she get pregnant?
Was she on the pill? Did she use protection?

WTF does any of that have to do with the fact that the reason she died is because the state made the life saving medical procedure illegal?

Personally, I find your victim blaming to be absolutely disgusting.

 

[Estro Felino]

WTF does any of that have to do with the fact that the reason she died is because the state made the life saving medical procedure illegal?

Personally, I find your victim blaming to be absolutely disgusting.

There is a prostitute that lives in my neighborhood...she never got pregnant.
And she is not sterile.

There is a friend of mine...she has two degrees, she got pregnant and it was an unwanted pregnancy.

Education doesn't make you smarter.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Ninth week...so I suppose she had an abortion because it was an unwanted pregnancy?
How did she get pregnant?
Was she on the pill? Did she use protection?

It matters not to the point made in the OP.

He life was in danger, for whatever reason.
And she didn't get the medical attention required to save her life.

Period.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

WTF does any of that have to do with the fact that the reason she died is because the state made the life saving medical procedure illegal?
Personally, I find your victim blaming to be absolutely disgusting.

I know, right?

It's like responding to a story about a woman being brutally gang raped by asking "did she wear a sexy miniskirt?"

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

There is a prostitute that lives in my neighborhood...she never got pregnant.
And she is not sterile.

There is a friend of mine...she has two degrees, she got pregnant and it was an unwanted pregnancy.

Education doesn't make you smarter.

And you just continue..................................................................

Maybe try and shift your focus to the fact that we have a woman here arriving in a hospital with a life-threatening medical emergency and wasn't given the help she needed which resulted in her death.

How she ended up in that situation makes absolutely no difference at all.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

I know, right?

It's like responding to a story about a woman being brutally gang raped by asking "did she wear a sexy miniskirt?"

Child left to die in a well due to fears emergency personnel would be legally culpable if they attempted to rescue them
"I know children who live near wells and they NEVER fall in. It's very easy not to fall down a well, you know. Where I live, people are educated to avoid wells. This child could have avoided the well entirely if they had just been smarter and better educated."

Man left to bleed to death in rubble of a car crash because EMTs on the scene were afraid of legal repercussions if they helped them out of the wreckage
"I drive everywhere and never crash. They obviously must have been driving very badly. They should have followed the rules of the road. This could have been avoided if they had just not crashed their car."

It could go on forever.

 

[Estro Felino]

And you just continue..................................................................

Maybe try and shift your focus to the fact that we have a woman here arriving in a hospital with a life-threatening medical emergency and wasn't given the help she needed which resulted in her death.

How she ended up in that situation makes absolutely no difference at all.

But if abortion is a local matter, why blaming the Federal Government?
I can't understand this.

Of course it's horrific, and these states should change their laws immediately.

 

[Estro Felino]

It matters not to the point made in the OP.

He life was in danger, for whatever reason.
And she didn't get the medical attention required to save her life.

Period.

But if it were up to me, I would give free healthcare to everyone...and free contraception, of course. Paid for by the Government.

But if the situation is so unjust in the Bible Belt, there is something called prevention.