Her name was Amber Nicole Thurman ...

[Nakosis]

Can you please give a link to the actual law and not just somebody writing about it?

There is a lot of "pertinent" clause but this I think is the most important.

2023 CODE OF GEORGIA :: Title 31 - HEALTH (§§ 31-1-1 — 31-54-4) :: Chapter 16 - CARE AND TREATMENT OF CHRONIC RENAL DISEASE PATIENTS (§§ 31-16-1 — 31-16-8)

 

[Nakosis]

That is not the specific law in Georgia. That is a quote from Wikipedia.


So you claimed you have read the law. Then please give a link to the actual law and quote the relevant parts.

No it's a Google search. Something any doctor should be capable of.

That's not what you asked for in the post. This is all of the links I started with.

 

[Nakosis]

Well, that is at least for rape and/or incest to vague as it doesn't say who determines if that is the case.

Determination is not necessary. Only that a police report be filed.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

There is a lot of "pertinent" clause but this I think is the most important.

2023 CODE OF GEORGIA :: Title 31 - HEALTH (§§ 31-1-1 — 31-54-4) :: Chapter 16 - CARE AND TREATMENT OF CHRONIC RENAL DISEASE PATIENTS (§§ 31-16-1 — 31-16-8)

So where does it state that she was a chronic renal disease patient.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

No it's a Google search. Something any doctor should be capable of.

That's not what you asked for in the post. This is all of the links I started with.

Okay, then quote from all the relevant links with both actual link and quote.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Determination is not necessary. Only that a police report be filed.

Can a minor file a report without parental approval?

 

[Twilight Hue]

And once again:

WTF does any of that have to do with the fact that the reason she died is because the state made the life saving medical procedure illegal?​

There are just as many people who say that it wasn't the state ban but rather the chemical abortion pills she took that created the danger in the first place.

 

[Nakosis]

If the states hadn't passed these abortion bans, the clinics in North Carolina wouldn't have been overwhelmed with out of state patients, and she wouldn't have to travel there, get caught in traffic, and miss her appointment for a D&C. She could have gotten it closer to home if Georgia hadn't outlawed it.

Fair point. I'm just pointing out the specifics of the Georgia law. If folks don't take the time to look into the issue themselves on only rely on media reporting, nothing gets resolved.

I mean Republicans, regardless of how hard you push the media narrative are not going to take responsibility on media commentary without supporting facts. Hyping up the hysteria doesn't solve anything.

 

[Nakosis]

Can a minor file a report without parental approval?

That's a good question. IDK.
Why don't you do some investigation yourself instead of relying on other people to provide answers for you?

 

[Heyo]

That is your opinion. I am of another one.

That's not an opinion, it's a judicial term that is well-defined. In Georgia, abortion is murder because fetuses are persons. They are counted in censuses, have all the human rights like free speech, free choice of religion etc. They can get a passport and are able to be recipients of estates.
@Regiomontanus' statement was therefore not an opinion, just an overgeneralization without the qualifier "in Georgia". In most of the world, persons have to be born.

 

[McBell]

There are just as many people who say that it wasn't the state ban but rather the chemical abortion pills she took that created the danger in the first place.

It was in fact the chemical abortion that caused the medical issues.
Of course, if the D&C she was wanting to begin with was legal, she would not have gone with the chemical abortion in the first place.

Seems to me the biggest thing that effected the outcome is that the law went into effect weeks before her death. So the doctors, hospital, etc. were scared of the law because it was not clearly written.

 

[Copernicus]

This story is a good example of how poorly labeled the "right to life" movement is. This woman had no right to live in Georgia, because she had the remains of fetal tissue left over in her womb. The tissue itself was nonviable, but the infected fetal tissue was still technically alive and had the right to life that the woman hosting the tissue did not. She could remain alive until that tissue died a natural death on its own. Her punishment was being born in a state with wackadoodle "right to life" politicians in charge.

 

[GoodAttention]

This story is a good example of how poorly labeled the "right to life" movement is. This woman had no right to live in Georgia, because she had the remains of fetal tissue left over in her womb.

Okay..

The tissue itself was nonviable, but the infected fetal tissue was still technically alive and had the right to life that the woman hosting the tissue did not.

There is no "technically alive". Ms Thurman was "literally" alive, and she had all the rights a human would have.

She could remain alive until that tissue died a natural death on its own. Her punishment was being born in a state with wackadoodle "right to life" politicians in charge.

Wrong.

It is cases like this that makes the pro-choice side look stupider than the creationists on the other side.

When it comes to the law, the pro-life side has waited decades, DECADES, to get these laws into place. Make no mistake, these laws have been fine-tuned in preparation for the takedown of Roe vs Wade, and if/when this case goes to court and the law is applied IT WILL ONLY STRENGTHEN IT, all while pro-choicers are running around in circles like chicken-little blaming a law they don't understand.

 

[Pogo]

Okay..



There is no "technically alive". Ms Thurman was "literally" alive, and she had all the rights a human would have.



Wrong.

It is cases like this that makes the pro-choice side look stupider than the creationists on the other side.

When it comes to the law, the pro-life side has waited decades, DECADES, to get these laws into place. Make no mistake, these laws have been fine-tuned in preparation for the takedown of Roe vs Wade, and if/when this case goes to court and the law is applied IT WILL ONLY STRENGTHEN IT, all while pro-choicers are running around in circles like chicken-little blaming a law they don't understand.

As has been seen in cases all over the country, the laws were anything but fine tuned and their implementation has been a nightmare for many. You have waited decades to impose a bunch of half-baked ideas to take bodily autonomy away from women that is being popularly voted against in pretty much every jurisdiction that even allows the question. You can see how much it peeves some people by the attempts to keep it from a popular vote.

 

[Copernicus]

This woman had no right to live in Georgia, because she had the remains of fetal tissue left over in her womb.

There is no "technically alive". Ms Thurman was "literally" alive, and she had all the rights a human would have.

She had no right to live in the sense that the life of the fetal tissue took precedence over her own life, which was put in jeopardy because of the existence of that tissue. The doctors charged with caring for her health felt unable to care for her because of the law, and she died as a result.

The tissue itself was nonviable, but the infected fetal tissue was still technically alive and had the right to life that the woman hosting the tissue did not. She could remain alive until that tissue died a natural death on its own. Her punishment was being born in a state with wackadoodle "right to life" politicians in charge.

Wrong.

It is cases like this that makes the pro-choice side look stupider than the creationists on the other side.

When it comes to the law, the pro-life side has waited decades, DECADES, to get these laws into place. Make no mistake, these laws have been fine-tuned in preparation for the takedown of Roe vs Wade, and if/when this case goes to court and the law is applied IT WILL ONLY STRENGTHEN IT, all while pro-choicers are running around in circles like chicken-little blaming a law they don't understand.

You have waited decades to take away the control that women had over their own pregnancies and health care during that period, but you got what you wished for. Now this woman's family is left to grieve over her fully preventable death. You could not even say that the tissue in her womb was an "unborn baby". It was just fetal tissue that led to a fatal infection because of the draconian law preventing her doctors from treating her until it was too late. You seem quite proud of what your movement has achieved, but it is a misnomer to call it a "right to life" movement. As long as the wrongly decided Dobbs decision rules, those who worked for decades to overturn Roe v Wade will be responsible for more women's deaths not to mention other permanent damage to their reproductive health. It ought to be called the "threat to life" movement.

 

[GoodAttention]

As has been seen in cases all over the country, the laws were anything but fine tuned and their implementation has been a nightmare for many. You have waited decades to impose a bunch of half-baked ideas to take bodily autonomy away from women that is being popularly voted against in pretty much every jurisdiction that even allows the question. You can see how much it peeves some people by the attempts to keep it from a popular vote.

The states have jurisdiction. The laws are a result of the people who live in them.

 

[GoodAttention]

She had no right to live in the sense that the life of the fetal tissue took precedence over her own life, which was put in jeopardy because of the existence of that tissue. The doctors charged with caring for her health felt unable to care for her because of the law, and she died as a result.

The doctors were incompetent as per my reasoning in comments #198 and prior.

You have waited decades to take away the control that women had over their own pregnancies and health care during that period, but you got what you wished for. Now this woman's family is left to grieve over her fully preventable death. You could not even say that the tissue in her womb was an "unborn baby". It was just fetal tissue that led to a fatal infection because of the draconian law preventing her doctors from treating her until it was too late.

The specifics of the case beg to differ, as do the laws that apply.

You seem quite proud of what your movement has achieved, but it is a misnomer to call it a "right to life" movement. As long as the wrongly decided Dobbs decision rules, those who worked for decades to overturn Roe v Wade will be responsible for more women's deaths not to mention other permanent damage to their reproductive health. It ought to be called the "threat to life" movement.

I am not pro-life, I am pro-choice.

At the end of the day, for any termination of pregnancy the medical profession will need to be involved.

Draconian laws are not an excuse for medical negligence and Amber Thurman will not become a martyr for medical incompetence. Pro-lifers will ensure this, and this will be at the detriment of the pro-choice movement.

 

[F1fan]

Just asking for a reference.
I have no contempt for the media. They are just doing their job which is to entice readership by creating provocative headlines and stories.

So your gripe is with the editorial staff, not journalists? And some headlines can be written to attract attention, which is not a bad thing if accurate. Of course, journalists have a job, and that's to report current events. And there is a tradition of ethics in journalism which many do take seriously. This is why there is a chart that assesses media for it's reliability.

 

[Copernicus]

The doctors were incompetent as per my reasoning in comments #198 and prior.

You are not a doctor, and you do not seem to understand the kind of pressure they were under--risking their medical licenses and possibly prosecution under criminal law. So it was a career-ending decision from their perspective. From yours, it's just bloviating online in a discussion forum with no consequences other than perhaps a wounded ego at stake. The only incompetence here has been in state legislatures and governor's offices, not to mention the Supreme Court of the US.

The specifics of the case beg to differ, as do the laws that apply.

Now you're a lawyer in addition to being an expert in medical care???

I am not pro-life, I am pro-choice.

Oh, please. Read your own posts in this forum. Do you really believe anyone is fooled?

At the end of the day, for any termination of pregnancy the medical profession will need to be involved.

Right. Them and the entire Republican Party, which has managed to pack the Supreme Court and many state legislatures with anti-abortion extremists, all of whom seem to think that they have some kind of standing and stake in the family planning decisions and health care choices of millions of Americans that they know nothing about.

Draconian laws are not an excuse for medical negligence and Amber Thurman will not become a martyr for medical incompetence. Pro-lifers will ensure this, and this will be at the detriment of the pro-choice movement.

Amber Thurman is a victim of government overreach. She and her doctors are not at fault for her death. Those who backed these draconian regulations on pregnancies are the incompetent ones for not understanding the threat they posed to the health care and reproductive freedoms of men and women who choose to raise families. So-called "pro-lifers" care nothing for the well-being of families or those who are responsible for administering health care. All they care about is having the power to force others to make the choices that are not their business to make. Once they throw a monkey wrench into the private lives of other people, there is nothing they can do to repair the damage they have caused. Nor do they seem to care all that much.

 

[Heyo]

The doctors were incompetent as per my reasoning in comments #198 and prior.

Assuming your reasoning is correct, do we also have to conclude that the AG of Georgia is incompetent?
Negligent homicide is a public offence, so it would be the duty of the AG to sue the clinic, not the next of kin of Amber Nicole Thurman.