Her name was Amber Nicole Thurman ...

[Estro Felino]

Oh come on.

The pill took away those symptoms for me. Plus my horribly unbearable cramps that I'm stuck with now that I'm off the pill.

And I think you're making that up out of thin air.

Shame and modesty are a disgrace in the US.
People should be proud of saying out loud they have sex.
They should be proud of buying contraceptives at the pharmacy.
They should say that out loud because if I see a person buying them, I tell them: bravo or brava, you have protected sex. I admire you...

The people who don't use them are to despise.

 

[Wirey]

Shame and modesty are a disgrace in the US.
People should be proud of saying out loud they have sex.
They should be proud of buying contraceptives at the pharmacy.
They should say that out loud because if I see a person buying them, I tell them: bravo or brava, you have protected sex. I admire you...

The people who don't use them are to despise.

If you admit to using contraceptives in the US, some religious nut might shoot you. Better to shut up I think.

 

[Nakosis]

Whose lawyers and insurers warned them not to give medical care that prosecutors could interpret as illegal.


Pants on fire false. Their mission is to investigate and expose abuses of power by government, businesses, and other organizations.


Reputable media sources will report in depth details about matters. And no these laws are ambiguous to a degree that the lawyers and insurers of medical professionals advise them not to care for pregnant women in distress. These professionals are caught between the laws republicans wrote and their duties to help those in medical distress.

Better to do your own research it turns out than to rely on the media.

 

[Nakosis]

The doctors in Georgia are not lawyers. She would not have died if Georgia had not implemented this law. She could have gotten her desired D&C closer to home, as there is no shortage of OB/GYNs in Georgia. (Yet)

I agree there is a issue there. We've yet to hear from the doctors. Though in either case, the doctors are at fault so just as likely they keep quite vs saying anything to incriminate themselves.

 

[F1fan]

Better to do your own research it turns out than to rely on the media.

LOL, oh boy. Our research is by using what journalists have done, and citing them. The difference is citing reputable media and rejecting biased, poor quality media. These are easy to discern as there are lists of reputable media. You accused propublica of being "pro-abortion" which is not true. It seems your "research" was built upon your personal bias.

I agree there is a issue there. We've yet to hear from the doctors.

Their lawyers will advise them to keep their mouths shut to avoid being sued. I take it you have never really studied law and how civil lawsuits can be filed on even weak notions of evidence? I would guess the hospitals told the medical staff to say nothing to anyone about the deaths.

Though in either case, the doctors are at fault so just as likely they keep quite vs saying anything to incriminate themselves.

No they aren't. The doctors had to follow the laws passed by the state. When laws are ambiguous the lawyers will advice the medical staff to the most conservative interpretatin of the law to avoid being prosecuted. I don't understand why you accuse the doctors when it was the republicans who wrote the law and then passed it. Where is your blame for those who created the law?

 

[Nakosis]

LOL, oh boy. Our research is by using what journalists have done, and citing them. The difference is citing reputable media and rejecting biased, poor quality media. These are easy to discern as there are lists of reputable media. You accused propublica of being "pro-abortion" which is not true. It seems your "research" was built upon your personal bias.


Their lawyers will advise them to keep their mouths shut to avoid being sued. I take it you have never really studied law and how civil lawsuits can be filed on even weak notions of evidence? I would guess the hospitals told the medical staff to say nothing to anyone about the deaths.

No they aren't. The doctors had to follow the laws passed by the state. When laws are ambiguous the lawyers will advice the medical staff to the most conservative interpretatin of the law to avoid being prosecuted. I don't understand why you accuse the doctors when it was the republicans who wrote the law and then passed it. Where is your blame for those who created the law?

Well it was easy enough for me to understand the law. Though I certainly wouldn't be relying on the media for that. I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed and it pretty clear. Not sure I'd want to be a patient of a doctor who wasn't able to understand legalities of their profession but to each their own.

 

[F1fan]

Well it was easy enough for me to understand the law. Though I certainly wouldn't be relying on the media for that.

Then how do you conduct research if you have contempt for the media? How can you possibly be informed (or even disinformed) if you don't use media?

I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed and it pretty clear. Not sure I'd want to be a patient of a doctor who wasn't able to understand legalities of their profession but to each their own.

The doctors that refused to treat Amber DID understand the legalities of their profession in their state. They had to obey the law. Their lawyers advised them what they could and couldn't do. They had to follow the law, not their conscience. The medical staff was powerless to act in a way that did not threaten their own lives, namely prosecution for murder. Either way the medical staff was trapped in a dilemma that murder was inevitable, but only one option allowed them free from prosecution. That was to follow the law that republcians wrote and passed.

 

[Nakosis]

Then how do you conduct research if you have contempt for the media? How can you possibly be informed (or even disinformed) if you don't use media?

I read the specific laws for the state. I also read commentary from lawyers about these laws. I have more interest in the actual law than what is being claimed about them. It the law we have to deal with not the news commentators.

The doctors that refused to treat Amber DID understand the legalities of their profession in their state. They had to obey the law. Their lawyers advised them what they could and couldn't do. They had to follow the law, not their conscience. The medical staff was powerless to act in a way that did not threaten their own lives, namely prosecution for murder. Either way the medical staff was trapped in a dilemma that murder was inevitable, but only one option allowed them free from prosecution. That was to follow the law that republcians wrote and passed.

Ok, if you have a reference to the doctors in this case making that claim I'd be happy to review it.

 

[F1fan]

I read the specific laws for the state. I also read commentary from lawyers about these laws. I have more interest in the actual law than what is being claimed about them.

Laws are written, but they are also interpreted. The concern for medical personel is how these laws get interpreted by prosecutors, namely right wing prosecutors who have a strong attitude against any abortion related medical procedures. As noted the lawyers for medical practioners will interpret these laws to the most conservative limit when they advise their clients.

It the law we have to deal with not the news commentators.

What are commentators getting wrong, in your non-professional opinion? And you do realize many commentators interview experts in law, yes? Now, these experts will have their own attitudes about the issues these laws are relevant to.

Ok, if you have a reference to the doctors in this case making that claim I'd be happy to review it.

Are you asking me to cite media? You have contempt for media, so what exactly will you accept?

The fact that lawyers have been advising their clients to follow the most extreme interpretation of the laws is evident in how the medical practitioners are behaving. The norm is that practitioners will offer the care that a patient needs to save their lives, and this has been an exception where it comes to preganant women, and those suffering complications of pregnancy. And ONLY in states where these laws have been passed by republicans whose aim is to ban any abortion access.

 

[Nakosis]

Laws are written, but they are also interpreted. The concern for medical personel is how these laws get interpreted by prosecutors, namely right wing prosecutors who have a strong attitude against any abortion related medical procedures. As noted the lawyers for medical practioners will interpret these laws to the most conservative limit when they advise their clients.

What are commentators getting wrong, in your non-professional opinion? And you do realize many commentators interview experts in law, yes? Now, these experts will have their own attitudes about the issues these laws are relevant to.

Are you asking me to cite media? You have contempt for media, so what exactly will you accept?

The fact that lawyers have been advising their clients to follow the most extreme interpretation of the laws is evident in how the medical practitioners are behaving. The norm is that practitioners will offer the care that a patient needs to save their lives, and this has been an exception where it comes to preganant women, and those suffering complications of pregnancy. And ONLY in states where these laws have been passed by republicans whose aim is to ban any abortion access.

Just asking for a reference.
I have no contempt for the media. They are just doing their job which is to entice readership by creating provocative headlines and stories.

 

[crossfire]

I agree there is a issue there. We've yet to hear from the doctors. Though in either case, the doctors are at fault so just as likely they keep quite vs saying anything to incriminate themselves.

If the states hadn't passed these abortion bans, the clinics in North Carolina wouldn't have been overwhelmed with out of state patients, and she wouldn't have to travel there, get caught in traffic, and miss her appointment for a D&C. She could have gotten it closer to home if Georgia hadn't outlawed it.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

The doctors were either not familiar with Georgia law:

If you’re past around 6 weeks pregnant, you may need to travel out of Georgia to get an abortion unless you qualify for an exception. Exceptions are very limited and include:

To save the pregnant person's life
To preserve the pregnant person's physical health
If the fetus is not expected to survive the pregnancy
If the pregnancy is a result of rape and/or incest.
Where Can I Get an Abortion? | U.S. Abortion Clinic Locator

Or there were other reasons the needed medical procedure was delayed.
Definitely tragic but can't be blame on the laws against abortion.

Well, that is at least for rape and/or incest to vague as it doesn't say who determines if that is the case.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

In Georgia, this is left to the determination of the doctors. ProPublica is a pro abortion platform. If you look into the law, it is pretty clear. No need to rely on some media outlet for your information.

Can you please give a link to the actual law and not just somebody writing about it?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I read the specific laws for the state. I also read commentary from lawyers about these laws. I have more interest in the actual law than what is being claimed about them. It the law we have to deal with not the news commentators.



Ok, if you have a reference to the doctors in this case making that claim I'd be happy to review it.

So please give links to all of that.

 

[Regiomontanus]

It is nice to argue that immediate treatment would have been better, but that is exactly the problem, the decision has been taken away from doctors and put into the hands of the hospital lawyers and their insurance suppliers. This leaves doctors in the position that they either need to seek approval from the legal bureaucracy of risk their livelihood to practice medicine as they have been taught.

Abortion is murder

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Abortion is murder

That is your opinion. I am of another one.

 

[Regiomontanus]

That is your opinion. I am of another one.

So sorry to hear that you support murder. You must be a MAGA fascist. Be well, I will be praying for you.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

So sorry to hear that you support murder. You must be a MAGA fascist. Be well, I will be praying for you.

Yeah, that it is your belief system. I have another one.

 

[Nakosis]

So please give links to all of that.

gerogia state law regarding abortion - Google Search

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

gerogia state law regarding abortion - Google Search

That is not the specific law in Georgia. That is a quote from Wikipedia.

In Georgia, this is left to the determination of the doctors. ProPublica is a pro abortion platform. If you look into the law, it is pretty clear. No need to rely on some media outlet for your information.

So you claimed you have read the law. Then please give a link to the actual law and quote the relevant parts.