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Her name was Amber Nicole Thurman ...

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
I hope the Associated Press is an acceptable source for you regarding real life examples of pregnant women in crisis being turned away from hospital emergency rooms.

Thank you Crossfire...

Let me first share my personal frustration and that being my lack of trust for the media. From CNN to Fox, there has been so much abuse, lies and gaslighing, I just have to approach it with much distrust...

so here goes:

"WASHINGTON (AP) — One woman miscarried in the lobby restroom of a Texas emergency room as front desk staff refused to check her in. "

I have no doubt she miscarried in the lobby restroom. But no explanation as to “why was she refused to check her in”? My granddaughter was refused to be checked in on an appendicitis… but it was because there were no beds available at that time. What is lacking here is “why was she refused."

EDIT: found this:
'
She is bleeding a lot and had a miscarriage,” the husband told first responders in his call, which was transcribed from Spanish in federal documents. “I’m here at the hospital but they told us they can’t help us because we are not their client.”


It had nothing to do with ’the law” but rather “not my client”.


Another woman learned that her fetus had no heartbeat at a Florida hospital, the day after a security guard turned her away from the facility.


This one seems to have gaping hole. Since when does a “security guard” decide who goes in and who goes out? There just has to be more to this story. Explanation:

EDITED: In Melbourne, Florida, a security guard at Holmes Regional Medical Center refused to let a pregnant woman into the triage area because she had brought a child with her.

Nothing to do with the law enacted. Makes the AP suspect of promoting an agenda


And in North Carolina, a woman gave birth in a car after an emergency room couldn’t offer an ultrasound. The baby later died.


Again… this is just weird. No explanation. Did they have the equipment? It didn’t say she wasn’t to come in because of abortion laws but simply “they couldn’t offer it.


Complaints that pregnant women were turned away from U.S. emergency rooms spiked in 2022 after the U.S. Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade, federal documents obtained by The Associated Press reveal.

Here is the clincher. There is absolutely nothing here that any of the above was due to the laws that were enacted. Even the information after didn’t even tie it to the laws or provide any information on these three cases. It then moves to say "It is not known how many complaints were filed last year as the records request only asked for 2022 “ - if they only asked for 2022, how can they say it spiked from 2021 without the figures?

what it did say was:

Federal law requires emergency rooms to treat or stabilize patients who are in active labor and provide a medical transfer to another hospital if they don’t have the staff or resources to treat them. Medical facilities must comply with the law if they accept Medicare funding.


It is a law that they have to provide services. If they could and didn’t, it is grounds for a lawsuit no matter what the reason.


So this really leaves me wondering if this is a “let’s sell some news and push an agenda effort” - because it really doesn’t give information. I’ve AP presentation and every piece just gives me more questions.

Of course all these women should have been treated and their lives are important but it has nothing to do with “the newly enacted laws”.
 
Last edited:

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
But you didn't even mention the main point (which is telling in its own way).
You don't even consider the role the legislature of Georgia played in this. No comment on them still refusing to clarify the law.
The abortion happened in NC and not Georgia. Am i wrong? If I am not wrong, then the Georgia laws had nothing to do with what happened in NC.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Wow can you say blame anybody else including the victim for the consequences of your wish to impose your religion on others.
No doubt many of these women are even Christians being the most common affiliation but then maybe they weren't "true Christians"

Your version of Christian love is disgusting.
Gaslighting.

1) The hospital is at fault.

Your version of interpretation is disgusting. I did put the blame at the number 1 spot. Why did you ignore it? To attack because you have no ability support your position?
 

Pogo

Well-Known Member
Thank you Crossfire...

Let me first share my personal frustration and that being my lack of trust for the media. From CNN to Fox, there has been so much abuse, lies and gaslighing, I just have to approach it with much distrust...

so here goes:

"WASHINGTON (AP) — One woman miscarried in the lobby restroom of a Texas emergency room as front desk staff refused to check her in. "

I have no doubt she miscarried in the lobby restroom. But no explanation as to “why was she refused to check her in”? My granddaughter was refused to be checked in on an appendicitis… but it was because there were no beds available at that time. What is lacking here is “why was she refused."

EDIT: found this:
'
She is bleeding a lot and had a miscarriage,” the husband told first responders in his call, which was transcribed from Spanish in federal documents. “I’m here at the hospital but they told us they can’t help us because we are not their client.”


It had nothing to do with ’the law” but rather “not my client”.


Another woman learned that her fetus had no heartbeat at a Florida hospital, the day after a security guard turned her away from the facility.


This one seems to have gaping hole. Since when does a “security guard” decide who goes in and who goes out? There just has to be more to this story. Explanation:

EDITED: In Melbourne, Florida, a security guard at Holmes Regional Medical Center refused to let a pregnant woman into the triage area because she had brought a child with her.

Nothing to do with the law enacted. Makes the AP suspect of promoting an agenda


And in North Carolina, a woman gave birth in a car after an emergency room couldn’t offer an ultrasound. The baby later died.


Again… this is just weird. No explanation. Did they have the equipment? It didn’t say she wasn’t to come in because of abortion laws but simply “they couldn’t offer it.


Complaints that pregnant women were turned away from U.S. emergency rooms spiked in 2022 after the U.S. Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade, federal documents obtained by The Associated Press reveal.

Here is the clincher. There is absolutely nothing here that any of the above was due to the laws that were enacted. Even the information after didn’t even tie it to the laws or provide any information on these three cases. It then moves to say "It is not known how many complaints were filed last year as the records request only asked for 2022 “ - if they only asked for 2022, how can they say it spiked from 2021 without the figures?

what it did say was:

Federal law requires emergency rooms to treat or stabilize patients who are in active labor and provide a medical transfer to another hospital if they don’t have the staff or resources to treat them. Medical facilities must comply with the law if they accept Medicare funding.


It is a law that they have to provide services. If they could and didn’t, it is grounds for a lawsuit no matter what the reason.


So this really leaves me wondering if this is a “let’s sell some news and push an agenda effort” - because it really doesn’t give information. I’ve AP presentation and every piece just gives me more questions.

Of course all these women should have been treated and their lives are important but it has nothing to do with “the newly enacted laws”.
I'm sorry but this is just ugly avoidance and victim blaming.

No I am not sorry, this is just ugly.

No version of supposed teachings of the purported Jesus the Christ justifies this attitude to others.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
I don't know all of the details of this sad case and have not read all of the posts in this thread. Anyway, wanted to point this out:

"Some news reports blamed pro-life limits on abortion for Thurman’s death, but Georgia state law explicitly allows abortions when the mother’s life or physical health is at risk. Thurman had a chemical abortion in South Carolina prior to her arrival in the emergency room, and when she arrived, her unborn twins had no heart activity."

..,.

Yes… it is a sad case. Thank you for the update
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
I'm sorry but this is just ugly avoidance and victim blaming.

No I am not sorry, this is just ugly.

No version of supposed teachings of the purported Jesus the Christ justifies this attitude to others.

The loss of life is always ugly. We are just looking at the facts and realize that it isn’t the “laws” - but the loss of life is always ugly

#153
 

Pogo

Well-Known Member
The abortion happened in NC and not Georgia. Am i wrong? If I am not wrong, then the Georgia laws had nothing to do with what happened in NC.
Yes you are wrong, it was the laws in Georgia that were responsible for the negative outcome.
But you don't care, they're only people, not Christian like you.
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
I'm sorry but this is just ugly avoidance and victim blaming.

FWIW, I believe the nation-wide assault on reproductive has resulted in a fearful and dangerous landscape for women and the medical system alike. That said, I do not read @Kenny as focused on ugly avoidance and victim blaming.
 

Pogo

Well-Known Member
The loss of life is always ugly. We are just looking at the facts and realize that it isn’t the “laws” - but the loss of life is always ugly

#153
So now you will hide behind the "law" instead of dealing with the cause of it's writing and the resultant ambiguity. Sad is polite.
 

Pogo

Well-Known Member
FWIW, I believe the nation-wide assault on reproductive has resulted in a fearful and dangerous landscape for women and the medical system alike. That said, I do not read @Kenny as focused on ugly avoidance and victim blaming.
No, he is focused on denying the reality of the situation and avoidance and victim blaming are his justifications for his behaviour.

To him, there is no reason for fear in this landscape if nobody fell afoul of it.
 

Heyo

Veteran Member
The abortion happened in NC and not Georgia. Am i wrong? If I am not wrong, then the Georgia laws had nothing to do with what happened in NC.
I'm really not sure whether you are unable or unwilling to get the point. It feels like you are insulting my intelligence, but I will grant you Hanlon's Razor and bow out of this conversation.
 

crossfire

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic Bully ☿
Premium Member
<...>

Of course all these women should have been treated and their lives are important but it has nothing to do with “the newly enacted laws”.
Alright, you moved the goalposts. My response was to this exchange, which I quoted in my post:
<...>
Although Thurman is the first known death due to failure to treat abortion complications in the post-Dobbs era, dozens of women in several states with gestational age limits on abortion report being turned away from receiving care when faced with pregnancy-related emergencies. [ibid]​

<...>


OK… can I have a real-life example?
To which I provided real-life examples. Now that you have moved the goalposts to specificically tie it to the laws of the states, I will direct you to Idaho, whose laws have been ping-ponged through the court system, up to the Supreme Court twice, who have since reversed themselves and have kicked it back to the lower courts. This was from the time period where the Supreme Court allowed Idaho's draconian laws to trump EMTALA: Doctors have been advising their patients who are pregnant or who want to become pregnant to get a membership in an emergency medical air-lift program, as the Idaho law will not allow for emergency abortions unless the patient's life is in immediate peril.
Since the U.S. Supreme Court decided in January to consider a case about whether a federal law regarding emergency medical treatment supersedes an abortion ban in Idaho, air transports out of state for pregnancy complications at one of the state’s largest hospitals have increased from one in all of 2023 to six in the past four months.​
St. Luke’s Chief Medical Officer Dr. Jim Souza said if that pace continues, that number could be 20 patients before the year is over.​
“We have limited resources in terms of helicopters, fixed-wing transports and ambulances. If we occupy an air transport with a patient who could completely receive the totality of her care right here, safely, it’s potentially dangerous for other patients,” Souza said.​
Idaho’s abortion ban went into effect in August 2022, a few months after the U.S. Supreme Court issued its Dobbs v. Jackson Women’s Health Organization decision that overturned Roe v. Wade, ending federal protection for abortion access and allowing states to regulate it instead.​
That rise has prompted some Idaho physicians to advise their pregnant patients, or those trying to become pregnant, to purchase memberships with companies like Life Flight Network or Air St. Luke’s in the Boise area to avoid potentially significant costs if they need air transport in an emergency. With or without private insurance, the cost can be thousands of dollars.
“The thought of this becoming the new normal — I don’t want it to be the new normal,” said Blaine Patterson, director of the Air St. Luke’s program, which reported the recent increase in transports by air.​
At least these Idaho doctors are warning their patients in advance that they won't be able to get treatment for pregnancy complications that would require an abortion. I hope this is satisfactory evidence for you that some of these state laws are harmful, and criminalize needed care.
 
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