Father Heathen
Veteran Member
Right, but taking a dump isn't a competitive sport.
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
"Her penis" - not at all Orwellian - argh
- Thread starter icehorse
- Start date
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
As much **** as you've been talking about us and you want me to lay off pointing out the shady and bad faith tactics you use?
flowerpower
Member
I think you know that the trans issue is a lot more complicated than people oddly being "interested in everyone else's psychological issues."
There are so many very serious social issues that go along with the recent trans (or gender fluid) phenomenon that it's virtually impossible to keep up with them all. And, yes - biological women and children are directly affected by it.
One of the reasons that this is made into such a huge, inflammatory topic whenever it's brought up - is that our society has seemingly decided that (as far as discrimination goes) transphobia is the worst kind of discrimination there is (somehow it's actually overtaken racism as unacceptable bigotry) - that whenever someone really wants to discuss it in good faith, it's shut down with smokescreen statements like "why do you care about something that has nothing to do with you?"
The big problem with this is that it's an issue that affects everyone and it hasn't even come close to being discussed sufficiently because the people who insist that we just accept and embrace transsexualism without a second thought won't allow that discussion and anyone who has valid concerns gets told to shut up and labeled a bigot.
There are enormous problems with transsexualism as it's approached and regarded in our society.
Being willfully ignorant about them won't resolve anything.
This would come across as more sincere if you spent less time absolutely freaking out at the idea of trans people using the washroom at the mall.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
No, the problem is people who won't leave us alone in peace.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
That's pretty generous. Him insisting puberty is the only way to onow for sure pretty much makes everything he says "in support" insincere and unbelievable at best.
flowerpower
Member
Oh right - I forgot - the "we're just people who want to be left alone to live our lives how we want since we aren't hurting anyone" argument.
While there's some merit to it, I see it as a total cop out.
The massive surge in transsexualism and its presence in political talking points for the last 8 years or so is not something that should be ignored.
And there are a lot of unresolved issues that go along with it - which is why it's such a hot topic in our society today - they remain unresolved and the people who want to shut the conversation down in the same way that you just did with your cop out statement prefer those issues to remain unresolved because it serves a much greater agenda that, so far, trans people have the upper hand in.
Sorry, the "leave us alone - we're not hurting anyone" cop out doesn't fly with me or most people I know. We remain silent about it in polite conversation however because many trans people are happily enjoying their monopoly on playing the discrimination card and have actively bastardized the world "bigot" in the process.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
As long as you don't claim to be anything resembling live and let live.
People feeling more safe and comfortable coming out isn't a "massive surge."
Bigots are the ones obsessed about it. Everyone else has a life.
Yeah, actually it does. They have perspective and real problems and so don't really actually care.
You know some people. I know lots people who either don't care or are supportive.
I can't abuse the funny rating so i stead I'll just say whatever. Go look out in the real world. Ya know? All that stuff outside your windows that isn't show within a TV or phone screen. Those people largely don't care because it doesn't really effect them.
And I too have known people who don't accept "we're harming no one." They're called Klansmen and Skinheads.
flowerpower
Member
Okay this started out as a simple disagreement but your last line made me actually laugh.
"Live and let live" was a nice sounding cliché my mother taught me about when I was like 8 years old.
It's a mostly solid moral principle that I do believe that I still hold true today.
When I grew up, I realized that life is a lot more complicated than that and that but simply letting "someone live" however they choose to live can be extremely toxic and have grave consequences. Not to mention that simply participating in the adult world actually makes it difficult to adhere to it unfailingly. But yeah - I probably "live and let live" far more than most people in the world.
And, no - I wouldn't claim to "be" a moral principle - that makes absolutely no sense at all.
You sound (and probably are) confused. Already, that's twice that you've written things that don't make any sense.
There is a massive surge of people identifying as transgender - it's a clear and obvious social contagion in the west to anyone who isn't so biased that it renders them practically blind. The problematic discipline of gender studies has a huge role to play in it; there are various other far more nuance (and some very sinister) issues at play as well but I'm not really sure that I care enough to elaborate at this point. There is very good reason why biological women seem to be the ones speaking out against this rather than men.
I have no problem with trans people feeling more safe or comfortable coming out but I don't think that's the case at all. There's something else going on that you're either not seeing or refusing to acknowledge because it weakens your argument to the point where it falls apart.
You'd like to think that, but that isn't the case.
"Get a life, bigot" might seem like an argument to you but it isn't.
Everyone has a life, everyone has a human experience.
The only people who are "obsessed" with trans people are trans people and all the people they affect.
LOL What??
See my above response.
Not sure what you're trying to say here.
Are you intentionally trying to muddy the waters and mislead or or is this just straight up incoherence?
LOL
I'm not going to get into the details of my day-to-day life but your nasty, meanspirited assumption that I have no contact with "the real world" is not accurate at all. I've known several trans people - not all of them have effected me
"Those people largely don't care because it doesn't really effect them." - Yes. It's called tolerance. And trans people don't have a stranglehold on the concept. You can't possibly know whether any given person cares about transsexualism - what? Are you seriously claiming to be a mind reader? Honestly, this post of yours feels like it was written with a sense of desperation which explains why there are so many errors in what you've written.
My point about "live and let live" went flying over your head and, disappointingly, you decided to wrap up your idiotic post in a pretty little package by blubbering about Nazis.
Out of curiosity (and because it's very relevant to the thread): how long have you identified as trans? Longer than 8 years?
"Live and let live" was a nice sounding cliché my mother taught me about when I was like 8 years old.
It's a mostly solid moral principle that I do believe that I still hold true today.
When I grew up, I realized that life is a lot more complicated than that and that but simply letting "someone live" however they choose to live can be extremely toxic and have grave consequences. Not to mention that simply participating in the adult world actually makes it difficult to adhere to it unfailingly. But yeah - I probably "live and let live" far more than most people in the world.
And, no - I wouldn't claim to "be" a moral principle - that makes absolutely no sense at all.
You sound (and probably are) confused. Already, that's twice that you've written things that don't make any sense.
There is a massive surge of people identifying as transgender - it's a clear and obvious social contagion in the west to anyone who isn't so biased that it renders them practically blind. The problematic discipline of gender studies has a huge role to play in it; there are various other far more nuance (and some very sinister) issues at play as well but I'm not really sure that I care enough to elaborate at this point. There is very good reason why biological women seem to be the ones speaking out against this rather than men.
I have no problem with trans people feeling more safe or comfortable coming out but I don't think that's the case at all. There's something else going on that you're either not seeing or refusing to acknowledge because it weakens your argument to the point where it falls apart.
You'd like to think that, but that isn't the case.
"Get a life, bigot" might seem like an argument to you but it isn't.
Everyone has a life, everyone has a human experience.
The only people who are "obsessed" with trans people are trans people and all the people they affect.
LOL What??
See my above response.
Not sure what you're trying to say here.
Are you intentionally trying to muddy the waters and mislead or or is this just straight up incoherence?
LOL
I'm not going to get into the details of my day-to-day life but your nasty, meanspirited assumption that I have no contact with "the real world" is not accurate at all. I've known several trans people - not all of them have effected me
"Those people largely don't care because it doesn't really effect them." - Yes. It's called tolerance. And trans people don't have a stranglehold on the concept. You can't possibly know whether any given person cares about transsexualism - what? Are you seriously claiming to be a mind reader? Honestly, this post of yours feels like it was written with a sense of desperation which explains why there are so many errors in what you've written.
My point about "live and let live" went flying over your head and, disappointingly, you decided to wrap up your idiotic post in a pretty little package by blubbering about Nazis.
Out of curiosity (and because it's very relevant to the thread): how long have you identified as trans? Longer than 8 years?
Last edited:
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Your claim is no different than the claim of a surge in peoe who are gay. No, that didn't actually happen either it's just way more acceptable to be gay than it was even just 20 years ago.
Or I might just actually know what I'm talking about because I've actually put hundreds of hours into researching the topic.Many throw it away. Not suicide, but by letting themselves be what others (especially advertisers) want them to be. It's an unlive life when your opinions match the hyperpartisan opinions found on a screen.
I can't? You've never heard of these things called listening amd questions?
flowerpower
Member
Your claim is no different than the claim of a surge in peoe who are gay. No, that didn't actually happen either it's just way more acceptable to be gay than it was even just 20 years ago.
Many throw it away. Not suicide, but by letting themselves be what others (especially advertisers) want them to be. It's an unlive life when your opinions match the hyperpartisan opinions found on a screen.
I can't? You've never heard of these things called listening amd questions?
This is a really bad faith response from you - I really was hoping for better.
1. I agree it's more acceptable to be gay now than it was 20 years ago. I'm glad that's the case. I think the mark of a decent society is a society that tolerates and accepts gay people.
One problem: do you understand that Gay is not the same as Trans?
A lot of gay people I know are sick of having their experiences and struggled lumped into trans issues and insisting that they all belong to the same "community" and that their sexuality doesn't define who they are as a human being either.
2. "Or I might just actually know what I'm talking about because I've actually put hundreds of hours into researching the topic."
Yeah right. I totally believe you.
Even if I did believe you - which I don't - I still wouldn't respect your opinion on this any more than I already do. (which is little more than pretty easily dressing it down to the ridiculous bunch of nonsense that you're prattling on about.
3. "Many throw it away. Not suicide, but by letting themselves be what others (especially advertisers) want them to be. It's an unlive life when your opinions match the hyperpartisan opinions found on a screen."
What the **** does this pseudo-philosophical gibberish have to do with anything?
4. "I can't? You've never heard of these things called listening amd questions?"
No @Shadow Wolf - you can not read people's minds no matter how hard you try.
Yes - talking to people can give you a reasonable understanding of what they think, feel and believe (and they might even offer insight if you're lucky enough) but your insistence that you yourself can actually read other people's minds and see what extent they actually care about any given issue at any point in time is beyond laughable - like, was this an actual joke of yours?
5. Why did you dodge my final question?
The question was: did you start identifying as trans within the last 8 years?
super duper strawman, well done
None of that has happened unless you're a member of WPATH?
As for bad faith tactics, care to share?
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
It's not? Really? No ****!?
I never said I do. I have these things called "conversations." You should try them sometime.
Over 30 years ago.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Like your dismissal of solid evidence, like the survey posted by @Evangelicalhumanist.
It doesn't appear to have occurred to you that puberty is also an irreversible, life-altering process -- and you are quite satisfied in denying anyone that choice.
You make too many statements that don't stand up to scrutiny. Just because one day I am discussing racism doesn't mean that I am not interested in transgender discrimination -- or any other sort of discrimination. It's merely that we typically discuss one topic at a time. So nobody that I know, except for you, has "decided[...] that transphobia is the worst kind of discrimination."
And no, it is not an "issue that affects everyone." I am a gay man, quite comfortable with my own gender and my own sexuality (although so old it hardly matters anymore). I am content to leave the issue where I think that it belongs -- between the trans individual and their healthcare provider -- and yes, for the under-aged, with their parents. (I am well aware that some parents will not be supportive -- but that's no different than those parents who aren't supportive of their gay kids, either, or their sons who want to do ballet).
I didn't dismiss anything, I pointed out possible flaws in the study. I might be wrong in my assessment, you are free to address my concerns with logical responses..
Hmmm, not sure how you came to that conclusion, but your guess concerning what's occurred to me is way off.
Everyone goes through various stages of mental, emotional, and physical development from birth to death. It took evolution 3.5 billion years to refine the process. Puberty is a part of that natural process. All of the drugs used to block puberty come with dangerous, lifelong side effects. So first, let's be transparent about that. Any person who is put on puberty blockers for an extended period - which GAC calls for - WILL experience dangerous side effects and they WILL become lifelong dependents on medical interventions.
We know a lot about childhood development and what kids are and are not capable of understanding. A kid who has never had sex or a romantic relationship or been a parent cannot possibly understand what the pro-GAC adults in their lives are suggesting they give up - forever.
Additionally, you seem to keep avoiding the issue that many kids with GD grow out of it naturally. And many of those kids end up being gay. So if you put a confused gay kid thru GAC you are denying them a full life. Can you address that issue?
flowerpower
Member
It's not? Really? No ****!?
Yeah I was confused - I figured that, at some point in your "hundreds of hours of research," you might have actually stumbled upon that fact.
Strange how you still seem to found a way to muddle the two together which is pretty unfair to both gay and trans people to say the least.
You actually did imply that you could read people's minds. Repeatedly. And you're actually still doing it now.
Do you actually understand that you can have a conversation with a person and not full comprehend what they really think or care about? I consider it to be a pretty idiotic practice to think that you understand a person inside and out just by having a conversation with them.
Anyway, despite the fact that your posts come across as unprovokedly angry, bitter and belligerent when they don't need to be, I'd say you make up for it by your selective replies to portions of my posts - I guess there's nothing really more to do except assume that they're concessions of yours.