Heterosexual sins, adultery, fornication, etc.

[Shadow Wolf]

Where does Freudian slip originate from?
Subconscious! Right?
Who resides there? Pun intended!

It's no possession or only. Only my own mind residing there.

 

[SkepticThinker]

By taking it out of context like this you are trying to show my opinion is conclusive in regard to Homosexuals only! That is disingenuous! I clearly said - I believe we are all on the same boat. This is how (I believe) devil delivers. Devil is not omni-present. Contrary to common belief by the self-proclaimed followers of many religion (without thinking or consulting their own doctrine) - they come to conclusion that devil is omni-present. While information in their own dogma should lead them to the conclusion that - the devil is not omni-present at all! For example - in Christianity (I am not Christian by the way) - devil took Jesus on a ride and tried to trick him via direct communication. Why he couldn't work his wonders the same way he supposedly does with everyone else? Check out Matthew [4:8-9], Luke [4:9-12]. Check out Matthew [4:1-12] especially the first verse where it says Jesus was led by the spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. Led by whom? Certainly not the holy spirit they believe in. Then which spirit led Jesus to the devil? Their explanation won't make sense because they (most of them) believe Jesus was god or son of god and they believe in holy spirit as a divinity.
Some people via their strong convictions can keep their companion entity at bay. However we all can be taken on a ride to many forbidden places by our companion entity. Attempts are been made on a constant basis and round the clock! IMO we are so used to our companion entity that we don't even know what it feels like to not have the influence. Voice in our conscious (as many call it) can play tricks in many different ways! No one is immune!
So, to say I did worse by pointing out my position- is an exaggeration because most people will classify mental illness is worse than being influenced by something unknowingly and by not realizing!

The devil has nothing to do with psychiatric conditions.
Nobody has even demonstrated that devils exist in the first place.
You're just asserting things, not in evidence.

 

[SkepticThinker]

We aren't all possessed by demons, but most of us are, and very few are free.

Show me a demon.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

What two sides? One accepts the reality of the situation and one doesn’t. Kids should not be taught objectively wrong things.

 

[Link]

What two sides? One accepts the reality of the situation and one doesn’t. Kids should not be taught objectively wrong things.

Kids should be able to decide who to rely on for that information.

Or do you get to dictate who is authority on truth now too?

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

How do you explain to a 5 year old - why a man is dressed up like a woman?

How do you explain that you can’t tell Jesus from Mary since they both wore something like nightgowns?

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

And what if the religion also provides insights and proofs as to why it's wrong and evil? What then? Ignore everything it says?

If it’s objectively wrong, yes.

 

[Link]

If it’s objectively wrong, yes.

Sure, but to determine it objectively wrong, we have to see the arguments for and against. I wouldn't cut off God's handhold from that lest you be controlled by the discourse of the father of flame and his organized way of propagating falsehood. Give his revelations and sent ones a chance to explain why it's evil.

To simply dismiss it and only present one side, is not fair.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

There are more questions but if you cannot figure out correct answers to these questions - whatever conclusion you are going to arrive will be different than mine.

All those questions depend on who told what stories at what time. The Abrahamic religions are descended from Canaanite religions with others mixed in at different times.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

If someone asks you to provide data to show that you are a healthy person. You will run to your doctor and the doctor will do some basic tests and observation and give you a report.
Now ask someone to prove you are not a healthy person. What data can he provide to show you are emotionally influenced? Especially if you insist you are okay?
Information regarding possible cause of "inclination" is out there scattered among religions. I just indicated you about it. You can do your own research. You won't consider religious teaching as data anyway! So, why bother?
The religious people who do come across situations where they can see proof regarding what I said - do not keep data to be analyzed by skeptics.
No scientist has yet able to analyze DNA and show we are born with certain inclination. All they can do is - come to a conclusion that makes sense to them. They cannot bring religion into their equation and come to a different conclusion because it would be controversial.
Even for a condition like "bipolar" - Psychiatrists only have data regarding chemical changes in the body. They give you medicine to counter that. They don't have data to show exact cause or how to heal it for good. They can only help you suppress it. If you must suppress your condition to be functionable - why no research for people who struggles and want to be hetero. There are people who don't want to be gay. Why tell them it is natural. Live with it. Have fun!
Tell that to a person with bipolar disorder. Live with it - it is natural! You are born with it!
If enough people participate in a test then you will have your data. Wait for it!

The DSM goes into absurd levels of detail in describing what constitutes a particular diagnosis. It’s not just whining on a couch for an hour.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Like I said earlier...
It is easier to show with data that nothing is wrong with you. But to show something is wrong - you need a lot more information regarding the root cause and lot of cooperation from you. It is a lot harder to do that with limited knowledge that the Psychiatrists have at their disposal. Scientists know very little about brain, DNA. They also know very little about religion because information is scattered. It is not in one religion. So, the data they are providing you - is not reliable IMHO. LGBT rights activists will never let a Psychiatrist sleep in peace if he ever does any research against their cause. They will be ruined via social media.
So, where are you expecting data to come from?

If you are born on a deserted part of an island with no trees and your only food was fish then your data will only be about fishes.
You won't have any data regarding apples, oranges, grapes. You won't even know how any fruit tastes like.
If fish makes sense to you then continue eating fish!
I sincerely believe - on judgment day - many people will be running around trying to blame someone for their lack of data.
Maybe God will say - data was there in another part of the island - you didn't seek enough!
Ignorance of the law is not a defense! You cannot tell a cop who pulled you over for speeding that you didn't know it was wrong to speed! You cannot say "data" shows in Europe you could drive faster.
Ignorance regarding information available via different religious doctrine - is not a defense.
By the way have you ever heard Cherokee story of the battle of two wolves inside of us? It is an interesting proverb!

As a person with a degree in psychology, it’s offensive you think that the people in that field are as ignorant as your sources. The history of psychology, like all fields of study, have irrational moments, but eventually science grew to accept logic and data. Religion refuses.

The God of the Abrahamic religions encouraged intellectual poverty. That’s why you have to go to polytheism to find Gods of learning.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

I know you are going to blame society for that but even in an ideal gay friendly society - many gays would still wish they were hetero at some periods of their lives

So you don’t want society to take responsibility but you can only come up with a hypothetical gay utopia?

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

But if there is a god who created the world and everything in it, then "he" created a world where homosexuality exists. And then turns around and judges it as a bad thing.

Yes, people are quick to call God’s creation unclean even though there is a story about that.

 

[Link]

Gog and Magog trying to dictate who to trust for truth. Classic.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Gog and Magog trying to dictate who to trust for truth. Classic.

Trust the verified science. Which you already admitted agrees with my position.

 

[Link]

Trust the verified science. Which you already admitted agrees with my position.

Dictating what is science and truth and who trust as "verifiers" of it. Classic. You have no evidence or arguments really, just conjecture.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Dictating what is science and truth and who trust as "verifiers" of it. Classic. You have no evidence or arguments really, just conjecture.

What on earth are you talking about? You're the one with the unverified claims here.
How do you suggest we get to the truth? Just make stuff up?

 

[Link]

What on earth are you talking about? You're the one with the unverified claims here.
How do you suggest we get to the truth? Just make stuff up?

I have many threads on this subject. Which level are you talking about? God, Messengers, a particular Messenger, what that Messenger taught and how to know, or just on the issue of why homosexuality is wrong and evil. If the last, you should see a thread I have that includes this issue.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

A 20 years old can prove himself very stable and responsible, even more so than many 40 years old. But law still won't budge.

Laws are changing all the time.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I have many threads on this subject. Which level are you talking about? God, Messengers, a particular Messenger, what that Messenger taught and how to know, or just on the issue of why homosexuality is wrong and evil. If the last, you should see a thread I have that includes this issue.

Why should I care what anyone thinks Gods and messengers think of anything until someone can show they even exist in the first place? I mean, from where I'm standing, you're just sharing your point of view and claiming it comes from god(s) and messenger(s) and thus has some sort of divine authority. All of this without any demonstration of such.

You want to just assert that God thinks homosexuality is wrong, but I don't see any reason to think any such God exists in the first place.
And I have no reason to believe that homosexuality is wrong and evil. That's a religious belief, that has never been demonstrated to have any bearing on reality.
My cousin is not wrong and evil. She's just a person. She's not hurting anyone. Mind your own business.