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Hidden Book mentioned in the Qur'aan

al-amiyr

Active Member
Keep going.

[FONT=&quot]Evidence for the Hidden Book[/FONT]

I need you to try to answer the following question if you can.

[FONT=&quot]If you were to ask the people of the world this question: [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] What do you think The Book of God is? What do you think they will answer?[/FONT]

Confirm if we can continue.
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
 

kylixguru

Well-Known Member
[FONT=&quot]Evidence for the Hidden Book[/FONT]



I need you to try to answer the following question if you can.​

[FONT=&quot]If you were to ask the people of the world this question: [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]What do you think The Book of God is? What do you think they will answer?[/FONT]

Confirm if we can continue.​
In an earlier post you mentioned that the Jews would say the Torah, the Christians would say the Bible and the Muslims would say the Qur'aan. And so on for each respective major religion and their defining texts.
 

al-amiyr

Active Member
In an earlier post you mentioned that the Jews would say the Torah, the Christians would say the Bible and the Muslims would say the Qur'aan. And so on for each respective major religion and their defining texts.
Correct!
[FONT=&quot]Come! Let us first open and see what the last mentioned book called the Qur'aan has to say and then go all the way back[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]through time and see for ourselves what all the other mentioned Books also have to say.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
Remember! We are on the exploration to find the Hidden Book. Therefore pay careful attention to everything that you are going to read and see. Do not let anything distract you.[/FONT]


Confirm to continue!
 

kylixguru

Well-Known Member
Correct!


[FONT=&quot]Come! Let us first open and see what the last mentioned book called the Qur'aan has to say and then go all the way back[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]through time and see for ourselves what all the other mentioned Books also have to say.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Remember! We are on the exploration to find the Hidden Book. Therefore pay careful attention to everything that you are going to read and see. Do not let anything distract you.[/FONT]


Confirm to continue!
Ok. Proceed.
 

al-amiyr

Active Member
Ok. Proceed.
[FONT=&quot]Before we shall begin let us read three important statements about what the Prophet(S+) had said about
Knowledge, the Muslims, the Christians, the Jews, the Qur'aan, the Bible, the Torah and the Book (al_kitaab) Reflect over this and take heed! And the Understanding will also become yours.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]

And the Praises are to ALLAAH (God) and Peace and Blessings and Distinguishing and Salutations upon all the Chosen Servants. Aamiyn[/FONT]


These questions are all necessary and I have also been told not to make long posts.

Confirm to continue!
 
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al-amiyr

Active Member
Ok, proceed.

The Prophet made this strange statement that baffled the people.
[FONT=&quot]
Tirmidhi 277 narrated by Ziyaad ibn Labiyd[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The Messenger of ALLAAH (peace be upon him) spoke of something and said:
It will happen when Knowledge will be no more.
I said: "Messenger of ALLAAH" "how will knowledge vanish despite the fact that we will be reciting The Qur'aan and teaching it's recitation to our children and our children will teach it's recitation to their children up to The Day of Resurrection?" Thereupon he said:"Ziyaad' may your mother weep over you. I was of the opinion that you were one of those who have greatest understanding of religion in Madiynah.
Do these Jews and Christians not recite The Torah and The Bible but not act according to what is contained in them?"[/FONT]


So despite the Qur'aan's existence in the world Knowledge would still have vanished. You may ask what Knowledge the prophet (S+) was referring to? Other statements make it further clear but this is sufficient for our point here that Knowledge and just having and reading the Qur'aan are two different things.
The prophet also referred to the Jews and the Christians for not following what is in the Torah and the Bible. In no way did he ever condemn the Torah or the Bible. He never did it once in his life but always spoke highly of these Divine Books.
Just as the Jews and Christians lost The Knowledge to understand what is in their Divine books so after his death the same thing would befall the Muslims as well.

If there are no questions confirm to continue.
 

al-amiyr

Active Member
I understand what you are saying. Please continue.
[FONT=&quot]Look at these two statements of the Prophet carefully.
Don't think about the water on earth. For this is something else after which water is called. And also The heavens and the Earth (The Universe) were not yet brought into existence. So there was no water as we know it. Also do not think of a Book as we understand it. We are going to understand all this as we proceed.

Sahih Bukhari 9.643 narrated abu Hurayrah[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] I heard the messenger of Allaah saying "Before Allaah created the creations, He wrote a Book 'My Mercy has preceded my Anger," and that is written with Him over The Throne."[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
Sahih Bukhari 4.414 narrated Imrahn bin husayn[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]He (the messenger of Allaah) said: "first of all there was nothing but Allaah and His Throne was over the water and He wrote everything in the Book (al_kitaab) and (then) created The Heavens and The Earth.[/FONT]


So we see that before ALLAAH brought into existence the world He already brought into existence:-
The Waters
The Throne
and
The Book (al-kitaab)
[FONT=&quot]
the = al in Arabic. book = kitaab in Arabic. the book = al-kitaab in Arabic. Learn that for now.

From these two questions we might ask,"What is this Book that is called "the Book" "al-kitaab" which is with ALLAAH (GOD) on His Throne before he brought the Universe[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot] into existence[/FONT].

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]If no questions confirm to continue.[/FONT]
 

kylixguru

Well-Known Member
Doctrine and Covenants Section 112
Revelation received July 23, 1837

23 Verily, verily, I say unto you, darkness covereth the earth, and gross darkness the minds of the people, and all flesh has become corrupt before my face.
24 Behold, vengeance cometh speedily upon the inhabitants of the earth, a day of wrath, a day of burning, a day of desolation, of weeping, of mourning, and of lamentation; and as a whirlwind it shall come upon all the face of the earth, saith the Lord.
25 And upon my house shall it begin, and from my house shall it go forth, saith the Lord;
26 First among those among you, saith the Lord, who have professed to know my name and have not known me, and have blasphemed against me in the midst of my house, saith the Lord.
 

al-amiyr

Active Member
I follow you. Please continue.
[FONT=&quot]The sending from ALLAAH of the Book (al_kitaab) to Humanity.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 002:213[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Humanity was one people and ALLAAH sent Messengers giving good news and warning and with them He sent the Book (al_kitaab) in the Truth to judge between the people in matters wherein they differed.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
At this point we might ask,"What is this Book that was sent with the messengers. Who were these messengers? When did they come to the world? To whom have they come? We read in the verse of the Qur'aan that ALLAAH sent this Book that is called The Book (al-kitaab) with these messengers so that they could resolve the differences among humanity.[/FONT]

Here it seems to be The Book (al-kitaab) of all Human Conflict Solutions.

Confirm.
 

al-amiyr

Active Member
[FONT=&quot]I took the liberty to continue[/FONT].
[FONT=&quot]Whatever I quote now onwards are all verses directly from the Qur'aan. The problem with the world is that they have mixed up the kitaab (the Book) with the Qur'aan. When ALLAAH speaks about the Book (al-kitaab) in the Qur'aan scholars would insert in brackets the word 'qur'aan'. And this is where all the mischief begins among the Muslims. They blame the Jews and the Christian for changing their Books and then they change the Qur'aan with their minds. If ALLAAH wrote 'X' they think of 'Y'. So when ALLAAH says in the Qur'aan that HE sent to the Jews the Book (al-kitaab) and they discarded it then Muslims think ALLAAH said that the Jews discarded the Tawrah which they never did. So the devil begins to introduce his trickery among humanity.

We will now see how ALLAAH began to choose a Family through the Ages to preserve His Book (al-kitaab)

The Family of the Book ('ahl_ul_kitaab)
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
004:054
But We had already given the Family of Abraham ("ibraaHiym) the Book (al_kitaab) and the Wisdom and conferred upon them a Great Kingdom.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
006:075
Thus did We show Abraham the Kingdom of the Heavens and the Earth that he might be of those who are certain. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
006:082
And that was the argument which We gave to Abraham against his people. We raise in steps whom We will. Truly thy Lord is Wise, Knowing.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
006:084
We gave him Isaac ('is-haaq) and Jacob (ya"quwb) all We guided --- and Noah (nuwh) We guided before --- and among his progeny David (daawud) and Solomon (sulaymaan) and Job ('ayyuwb) and Moses (muwsaa) and Aaron (Haaruwn). Thus do We reward those who do good.

006:085
And Zachariah (zakariyyah) and John (yahyaa) and Jesus ("iysaa) and Elijah ('ilyaas). All in the ranks of the Good. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
006:086
And Ishmael ('ismaa"iyl) and Elisha ('ilyasa) and Jonas (Yuwnus) and Lot (luwT). And to all We gave favour above The Worlds.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
006:087
And from their fathers and their progeny and their brothers We chose them and We guided them to a Straight Road.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
006:088 [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]That is the Guidance of ALLAAH. He guides by it whom He wills from among His servants. And if they had associated partners with Him lo! Useless is that which they have worked.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
006:089[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Those were they unto whom we gave the Book (al_kitaab) and the Judgeship (al_hukm) and the Prophethood (an_nubuwwah)...

So there you see that there was a family that had this book called The Book (al-kitaab).
Let us continue on our journey to trace this book and see if we can find it.

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Confirm to continue.[/FONT]
 

kylixguru

Well-Known Member
[FONT=&quot]The sending from ALLAAH of the Book (al_kitaab) to Humanity.[/FONT]



[FONT=&quot]002:213[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Humanity was one people and ALLAAH sent Messengers giving good news and warning and with them He sent the Book (al_kitaab) in the Truth to judge between the people in matters wherein they differed.[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]At this point we might ask,"What is this Book that was sent with the messengers. Who were these messengers? When did they come to the world? To whom have they come? We read in the verse of the Qur'aan that ALLAAH sent this Book that is called The Book (al-kitaab) with these messengers so that they could resolve the differences among humanity.[/FONT]
Here it seems to be The Book (al-kitaab) of all Human Conflict Solutions.

Confirm.
Yep. I confirm.
 

InvestigateTruth

Veteran Member
This is interesting. It speaks of the proper interpretation of the Hidden Book as being something that is woven throughout all the holy books that has a very specific meaning that shall at some point become unlocked or unfolded in such a way as to expose the falseness of many people's religious views as well as convey the truth of all the former prophets to unbelievers.
The only way the knowledge of God can be unfolded is if He willingly Sends another revelation, with a new Book, which contains the interpretations of the Figurative verses as this has been the way the Quran is revealed.

I agree that the resurrection can be looked at spiritually as well as physically. This also would be consistent with the process of those who are "firmly rooted in knowledge" obtaining the proper and complete understanding of the Hidden Book.
Yes, but more interestingly, this is how Quran defines raising from the dead:

“Shall the dead whom We have quickened, and for whom We have ordained a light whereby he may walk among men, be like him, whose likeness is in the darkness, whence he will not come forth?” Quran 6:122




The above verse was revealed when a man who was an unbeliever before, became a believer, and the verse is saying He was raised from Dead.


That verse you shared earlier also alluded to the coming fourth of the proper interpretation as being a means by which unbelievers would be judged. Understanding this Hidden Book properly appears to be the basis upon which a person can hope to be resurrected unto a good and glorious end rather than being exposed for having taught and advanced false personal interpretations.

:yes:


This sounds like Daniel 12:4 when Michael would stand up and there would be a time of trouble.
This also sounds like Acts 1:7 when Jesus taught that only the Father would know when it was time for His Kingdom to come.
It seems to me that the coming Kingdom of the Father shall include the knowledge of the correct interpretation of the Hidden Book. While there may be other intermediary sources of guidance to help a person get there, ultimately it all boils down to those who really "get it". This appears to me to be connected with Michael standing up in the latter days. What role do you see Michael playing in the end times? What is his "time of trouble"?

Yes, In Baha'i view, it is the same as Daniel 12:4 :
"But you, Daniel, close up and seal the words of the scroll until the time of the end. Many will go here and there to increase knowledge."



My understanding is that Michael becomes the new Adam for the new Creation to follow and his time of trouble is when he transgresses and falls. Therefore, it seems that Michael's redemption is connected with the resurrection of everyone, which is also connected with everyone's time of Judgment. Adam lived for nearly 1,000 years so it seems suggestive to me that the period of Adam's lifetime corresponds with the Day of Judgment. It is also Adam who has the job of giving all of the "creatures" their "new name", which seems to be indicative of the process of judgment.

Yes, it could be the appearance of someone else like Michael.


If this manner of interpretation of things is correct, then I would simply be one who is firmly grounded in knowledge and in agreement with the Hidden Book. Of course, I could also just be making my own personal interpretation. People won't really know until the proper interpretation is given and then you can look at everything a person has taught and know if it was in accordance with the Hidden Book, or if they had made things up on their own. I believe there will be multiple individuals who will be firmly grounded in knowledge that find one another and collaborate together until the full vision snaps into view such that it can be coherently explained to others. All of those individuals will not take glory to themselves, but they will recognize that if it wasn't for God's grace no such knowledge could have come to them.

In Baha'i View, only Manifestations of God is considered to be firmly grounded in knowledge, as well as the chosen ones of God, such as prophets.

Perhaps that is so. Does the New Revelation include the information that will help everyone come to the fulness of the knowledge of the Hidden Book, or is it yet another waypoint in the process pointing to a yet future unfolding?
Pretty much everything that was Hidden is revealed in the Baha'i Scriptures.
ABout 200 volumes of new scriptures.

This doesn't seem like a consistent reading of that verse. I got the understanding that the Judgment Day itself would be a period of about 1,000 years. It is likely coincidental that there was 1,000 years before the Baha'i Revelation.
You have to watch out for the curve balls.
According to Islamic Traditions, Mahdi is the Promised One of Islam, who comes to teach true religion.
According to Hadithes from Muhammad, Mahdi comes at the end of the Cycle of His people, which is One Thousands Years. (References from ISlamic sources available upon request.)

(I will discuss that verse in more details later to show how it means 1000 years after Islam)

and this is what Baha'i Writings says about that verse:

"The "day whose length shall be a thousand years," foretold by the Apostle of God in His Book, had terminated."
- God passes By, p. 40

When the Bab appeared, He anounced to the People:

""I am," He exclaimed, "I am, I am the Promised One! I am the One Whose name you have for a thousand years invoked, at Whose mention you have risen, Whose advent you have longed to witness, and the hour of Whose Revelation you have prayed God to hasten. "

--God passes By, p.18
 
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al-amiyr

Active Member
Thank you. I confirm you may continue onward.
[FONT=&quot]
The first coming in written form of the Book (al_kitaab) to humanity.[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]ALLAAH sends Moses (muwsaa) (P+) and with him he sends the Book (al_kitaab) via the Torah (al_tawrah).[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]Before the Book (al-kitaab) came to the world in written form it was
mental perceptions and visions[/FONT]
.
[FONT=&quot] 0028:043[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] And We had already given Moses the Book (al_kitaab) after We had destroyed the first generations
mental perceptions and visions for humanity and Guidance and Mercy in order for them to think of and bear in mind.[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot] 017:002 [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]And We gave Moses the Book (al_kitaab) and made it a Guide to The Sons of Israel "do not take without Me any guiding representative".[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] 023:049[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] And We had already given Moses the Book (al_kitaab) in order that they might be rightly guided.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] 040:053[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] And [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] We had already given Moses the Guidance and We made the Sons of Israel to inherit the Book (al_kitaab).[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] 032:24 [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] And We appointed from among them Imaams guiding by Our Command when they steadfastly endured and were absolutely certain in Our Signs (aayaat).[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] 041:045 [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] And We had already given Moses the Book (al_kitaab) but disputes arose therein and had it not been for a word that proceeded from thy Lord [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] judgment would have been pronounced between them but they are in an uncertainty from it arousing doubt.[/FONT]

The Qur'aan does not say that disputes arose in the Torah but that disputes arose in the Book (al-kitaab). This must be very clearly understood otherwise a totally wrong perception would be invented. Muslims have misunderstood this for almost 1400 years. Very few among the Muslims knew exactly what the Qur'aan is referring to. Thus unnecessary disputes have arisen among Muslims on the one hand and Christians and Jews on the other where there are actually no disputes at all at least where this matter is concerned.
Next! See how the Jews became the custodians of the Book (al-kitaab) after the punishment of the Israelites and the house of Judah.
Confirm to continue.
 

kylixguru

Well-Known Member
The only way the knowledge of God can be unfolded is if He willingly Sends another revelation, with a new Book, which contains the interpretations of the Figurative verses as this has been the way the Quran is revealed.
I agree that man in an uninspired state will not penetrate these things all on his own.
Thus, as I understand it, God chooses various individuals who become messengers or emissaries of God's truth.
I also hold that God does so to the various cultures in their own language and understanding.
I look forward to the time when all truth from all cultures shall be gathered into one great whole.
My hope and my belief is that this Hidden Book is the manner by which we all can overcome the gross darkness we as a society are in right now, collectively speaking, where matters of religious truth are concerned.

Yes, but more interestingly, this is how Quran defines raising from the dead:

“Shall the dead whom We have quickened, and for whom We have ordained a light whereby he may walk among men, be like him, whose likeness is in the darkness, whence he will not come forth?” Quran 6:122


The above verse was revealed when a man who was an unbeliever before, became a believer, and the verse is saying He was raised from Dead.
This is the spiritual resurrection that Jesus brought and is what is spoken of happening in his time.


Yes, In Baha'i view, it is the same as Daniel 12:4 :
"But you, Daniel, close up and seal the words of the scroll until the time of the end. Many will go here and there to increase knowledge."

Yes, it could be the appearance of someone else like Michael.

In Baha'i View, only Manifestations of God is considered to be firmly grounded in knowledge, as well as the chosen ones of God, such as prophets.

Pretty much everything that was Hidden is revealed in the Baha'i Scriptures.
About 200 volumes of new scriptures.
I have read some of what was given and it all seemed correct, as far as I could tell.
But, I have yet to make a thorough investigation of it.

According to Islamic Traditions, Mahdi is the Promised One of Islam, who comes to teach true religion.
According to Hadithes from Muhammad, Mahdi comes at the end of the Cycle of His people, which is One Thousands Years. (References from ISlamic sources available upon request.)
What I wonder is if this is the same as what all of the other religions are looking for right now.
Jewish people are looking for their new King Messiah.
Christians people are looking for Jesus to return as King.
Muslims are looking for the Mahdi who shall have a global Khalif.
Mormons are looking for the return of Joseph Smith Jr. as the "One Mighty and Strong" holding the scepter to redeem Zion.

(I will discuss that verse in more details later to show how it means 1000 years after Islam)
Ok, I'll gladly hear you out fully on that.

and this is what Baha'i Writings says about that verse:

"The "day whose length shall be a thousand years," foretold by the Apostle of God in His Book, had terminated."
- God passes By, p. 40

When the Bab appeared, He anounced to the People:

""I am," He exclaimed, "I am, I am the Promised One! I am the One Whose name you have for a thousand years invoked, at Whose mention you have risen, Whose advent you have longed to witness, and the hour of Whose Revelation you have prayed God to hasten. "

--God passes By, p.18
So was the Bap claiming to be the King Messiah all Abrahamic religions are pointing to?
 

kylixguru

Well-Known Member
Next! See how the Jews became the custodians of the Book (al-kitaab) after the punishment of the Israelites and the house of Judah.

Confirm to continue.
Ok, interesting. I agree that the Qur'aan appears to be speaking of the Hidden Book, which extends in and through all of the revealed holy texts.
 

al-amiyr

Active Member
Ok, interesting. I agree that the Qur'aan appears to be speaking of the Hidden Book, which extends in and through all of the revealed holy texts.

[FONT=&quot]The Followers of the Book (‘ahl_ul_kitaab)[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The followers are all those who have been cut off from the Family Tree of Abraham as well as all the other peoples who have submitted to and believed in his religion after the Torah e.g. the Jews.[/FONT]



Here ALLAAH speaks about His revealing the Torah and what has been preserved from the book (al-kitaab)
[FONT=&quot]005:047 [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Truly We have revealed the Torah (al_tawrah) wherein is Guidance and Light. By it the Prophets who have submitted have judged those who have been Jews and Those in the Divine Rabbinical Service and the Learned Scribes on what they have preserved from the Book (al_kitaab) and they were witnesses over it.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
042:014
And they did not become divided except until after the Knowledge had come to them through desire and mutual infringement. And had it not been for a word that proceeded from thy Lord for a delayed term judgment would have been pronounced between them. And truly those who have inherited the Book (al_kitaab) thereafter are in an uncertainty from it; arousing doubt.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
003:187
And when ALLAAH took a covenant from those who have had the Book (al_kitaab) to make it known and not to hide it but they discarded it behind their backs and bought with it some miserable gain! And Vile was the bargain they made.[/FONT]


As you can see from all of the above the Qur'aan is speaking about a book which ALLAAH had sent to the world and the world was never absent from at least the knowledge of the Book (al-kitaab). It is not speaking about the Torah which the Jews have protected like no other book in human history. They have never discarded the Torah behind their backs and nor have they had doubt in it. But it is the Book (al-kitaab) that they have discarded and which they dispute among themselves. Some remnants of the Book(al-kitaab) are found in the kabbalah but not all Jews accept it as there is none to explain it any longer among them as among Christians as among Muslims. The nations are fighting vain battles.

To give you an idea for now what the Book (al-kitaab) is " They are all the meanings of the letters of the Hebrew and Arabic Alphabets which are all multi-dimensional matter-space-time configurations. For example the letter em (M) stands for the circle X/2+Y/2 = R/2 . When you read the divine books of ALLAAH then you read these letters which have meanings just like mathematicians read their mathematics formulae. I am going to take you right into it.
Next! ALLAAH sends Jesus the distinguished in this world and the next and with him He sends the Book (al-kitaab) the second time in written form to the world via the Gospel (al-injiyl).

Confirm to continue.
 
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