His Eminence, The Pope.

[Furchizedek]

How could He preach concerning his D/R while he was still alive?

I see that you are a Catholic. I had a long reply for you but decided to scrap it. Here's what another Catholic told me:

"The gospel is the whole package of Jesus' teaching, including Holy Eucharist, the founding of the Church, the divinity of Christ, devotion to the Blessed Mother, Heaven, Hell, Purgatory, and indulgences. The Kingdom of God is the Catholic Church."

If you believe all that then we really have nothing to talk about.

And you pray to Mary and other dead human beings too, right (like "St. Anthony" to help you find your misplaced things)? Even though Jesus clearly says: "But thou, WHEN thou prayest, ...pray to thy Father." (Matthew 6:6)

"Hail holy queen, mother of mercy, our life, our sweetness, and our hope. To thee do we cry, poor banished children of Eve. To thee do we lift up our mourning and weeping in this valley of tears. Turn, then, o gracious mother, thine eyes of mercy toward us, and, after this our exile, show unto us the blessed fruit of thy womb, Jesus. O clement, o loving, o sweet Virgin Mary." "Immaculate Mary, your praises we sing. You reign now in splendor with Jesus our King."

I'm afraid we can't have a real conversation until you are ready to know a whole lot more than you know now, and you'd probably have to give up your church and obey Jesus for that to happen. You can't both obey Jesus and obey your church. You can't serve two masters. You can't obey Jesus and pray to dead human beings. We're not on the same page at all. I was raised Catholic, I know it's hard to buck the church. The indoctrination is strong. But if you ever want to know what the gospel of the kingdom is that Jesus preached with the 12, and which he told his followers to preach, I can tell you that.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I'm afraid we can't have a real conversation until you are ready to know a whole lot more than you know now, and you'd probably have to give up your church and obey Jesus for that to happen. You can't both obey Jesus and obey your church. You can't serve two masters. You can't obey Jesus and pray to dead human beings. We're not on the same page at all. I was raised Catholic, I know it's hard to buck the church. The indoctrination is strong. But if you ever want to know what the gospel of the kingdom is that Jesus preached with the 12, and which he told his followers to preach, I can tell you that.

Let me remind you of Rule 8 of the forum:

"8. Preaching/Proselytizing
Creating (or linking to) content intended to convert/recruit others to your religion, spirituality, sect/denomination, or lack thereof is not permitted. Similarly, attempting to convert others away from their religion, spiritual convictions, or sect/denomination will also be considered a form of preaching. Stating opinions as a definitive matter of fact (i.e., without "I believe/feel/think" language, and/or without references) may be moderated as preaching."

So I recommend you stop that right now or I'll start reporting you.

 

[Furchizedek]

The Church is the body of Christ. It is the community gather in His name, whether the Catholic Church or a denomination, Christ is present within this community, in the hearing of the word, in the Eucharist.

You might not be in compliance with church Catholic doctrine. Another Catholic says this about other denominations and the "body of Christ":

All Christians are not the same. Only Catholics are true Christians---the rest are either heretics or schismatics. Outside the Catholic Church there is no salvation.

 

[savagewind]

The Church is the body of Christ. It is the community gather in His name, whether the Catholic Church or a denomination, Christ is present within this community, in the hearing of the word, in the Eucharist.

The Eucharist is only a Christian thing.

 

[savagewind]

The Church is the body of Christ. It is the community gather in His name, whether the Catholic Church or a denomination, Christ is present within this community, in the hearing of the word, in the Eucharist.

Christ is present with the Catholic body of believers and with the Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses and he can't let either know they are wrong about something. It sounds like to me that your doctrine equals a powerless Christ. I don't believe it!

I believe that Christ actually means wisdom and power.

Is it not why it is written that the World will hate us?

 

[pearl]

I was raised Catholic,

I was not, I was a Methodist.

"The gospel is the whole package of Jesus' teaching, including Holy Eucharist, the founding of the Church, the divinity of Christ, QUOTE]

The Gospel is the only source of the life of Jesus. Baptism and Eucharist are, for the most part, agreed by both Catholics and Protestants that the NT institutional statements or actions are the most clear. But there is little evidence that Jesus baptized during his ministry out side of Jn 3:22 where he did, but in Jn 4:2 he did not. As for the Eucharist, the three Synoptic Gospels and Paul agree that on the night before Jesus died he took bread and wine and interpreted them in terms of his own body and blood and directed his disciples to do likewise in memory of him.

And you pray to Mary and other dead human beings too, right (like "St. Anthony" to help you find your misplaced things)?

I believe in the Communion of Saints, (the Church triumphant), but I do not pray to the saints.

I'm afraid we can't have a real conversation until you are ready to know a whole lot more than you know now,

You are trying to converse about the teachings of the Church without consulting the Church! Instead you seek private opinions from various Catholics until you get the answers you want.

 

[metis]

Christ is present with the Catholic body of believers and with the Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses and he can't let either know they are wrong about something. It sounds like to me that your doctrine equals a powerless Christ. I don't believe it!

So, how do you propose he does this?

 

[savagewind]

So, how do you propose he does this?

Their Jesus doesn't seem to be able to talk and thus to set all things right. They make him powerless in regards to the truth.

 

[pearl]

The Eucharist is only a Christian thing

The Eucharist is not in isolation from the community.

 

[metis]

Their Jesus doesn't seem to be able to talk and thus to set all things right. They make him powerless in regards to the truth.

That doesn't answer my question, so please reread it and I'd appreciate an answer.

 

[metis]

The Eucharist is not in isolation from the community.

And that's an important point since the word "church" ("community") shows up 109 times in the NT.

 

[savagewind]

That doesn't answer my question, so please reread it and I'd appreciate an answer.

You said "he" and "this". I thought you meant to ask how the church makes Jesus powerless. So, what does the question mean, please?

One of the simplest things a person can do is to speak and speaking is about the only important thing that separates humans from the animals. But, I have never heard anyone confess a speaking Christ.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

You are a Catholic?

Can you tell me why, if you pray to Mary, why you pray to Mary when Jesus clearly says:

"But thou, WHEN thou prayest, ...pray to thy Father." (Matthew 6:6)

Why? Where is there room in what Jesus says to pray to dead human beings or to invoke the spirit of a dead guy named Tony to help you find your misplaced things?

"Hail holy queen, mother of mercy, our life, our sweetness, and our hope. To thee do we cry, poor banished children of Eve. To thee do we lift up our mourning and weeping in this valley of tears. Turn, then, o gracious mother, thine eyes of mercy toward us, and, after this our exile, show unto us the blessed fruit of thy womb, Jesus. O clement, o loving, o sweet Virgin Mary." "Immaculate Mary, your praises we sing. You reign now in splendor with Jesus our King."

Really, doesn't that make you just the least bit sick to your stomach? And how does it fit in with, "But thou, WHEN thou prayest, ...pray to thy Father." (Matthew 6:6) ?

If Catholics would obey Jesus they'd have to make some big changes in their program.

And Jesus says, Mary who? (Matthew 12:48) Who is my mother?

The part of the verse that you omitted says to pray in secret. Are you going to honour that? Secularism overall would have a much easier time if Christians abided by that instruction.

 

[savagewind]

Who is he and what it this? @metis

 

[metis]

You said "he" and "this". I thought you meant to ask how the church makes Jesus powerless. So, what does the question mean, please?

One of the simplest things a person can do is to speak and speaking is about the only important thing that separates humans from the animals. But, I have never heard anyone confess a speaking Christ.

Look at my post #167, and my question is who supposedly speaks for Christ because you said that you don't believe in a "powerless Christ"?

 

[savagewind]

Look at my post #167, and my question is who supposedly speaks for Christ because you said that you don't believe in a "powerless Christ"?

That is right. He speaks for himself!

 

[savagewind]

I believe Christ means he who is the leader of the people for God's will be done. Christ is exemplified in Jesus Christ. In my opinion. Can he speak? NO? Isn't not being able to speak a synonym for "powerless"?

 

[savagewind]

The Church is the body of Christ. It is the community gather in His name, whether the Catholic Church or a denomination, Christ is present within this community, in the hearing of the word, in the Eucharist.

This is what I responded to. That belief is what makes Jesus powerless. The reason? None of them agree!

 

[savagewind]

Why not tell us @metis. How will the community of many different denominations of Jesus bring peace to the Earth when they can't even be at peace with each other? In them, Jesus is POWERLESS. It isn't right! Are you saying that I agree with it? I don't.

 

[pearl]

This is what I responded to. That belief is what makes Jesus powerless. The reason? None of them agree!

There were disagreements among the infant churches as well, but there remained unity until the Reformation. Even now more is held in common than we realize. There are many collaborative works among the various theologians where some agreement is found, especially between Lutherans and Catholics. Though interpretive methods differ, there is unity on the role of Scripture.
There can be unity within diversity.