Hitchen's Challange

[leroy]

You obviously don't understand subjectivity. For those torturing babies, it is a good thing, for the babies it is not. It's really as simple as that. There is no Judgment by some imaginary authority. GOOD & EVIL only exists subjectively. This is why we have societies, governments, etc.

And you don’t find anything wrong with that view?

The claim is that torturing a baby for fun is wrong regardless of anyone’s opinion (in the same way 2+2 = 4 it true and will still be true even if some people disagree.

At least intuitively it seems that some things are objectively wrong

 

[EtuMalku]

It could be true that some people are born deprived of conscience. Are you arguing that exceptions render the general rule false?

What is the general rule?

 

[EtuMalku]

And you don’t find anything wrong with that view?

The claim is that torturing a baby for fun is wrong regardless of anyone’s opinion (in the same way 2+2 = 4 it true and will still be true even if some people disagree.

At least intuitively it seems that some things are objectively wrong

1) Where have I stated I "don’t find anything wrong with that view?" ?
2) Where have I stated that "torturing a baby for fun regardless of anyone’s opinion"?

You seem to be reacting without understanding . . . Am I right to assume you are of one of the Abrahamic faith?

 

[joe1776]

What is the general rule?

That most people have an intuitive moral sense we refer to as conscience that enables them to discern right from wrong when they are unbiased on the relevant case. Thus a judgment by an unbiased group, like a jury, renders their judgments objective.

 

[EtuMalku]

That most people have an intuitive moral sense we refer to as conscience that enables them to discern right from wrong when they are unbiased on the relevant case. Thus a judgment by an unbiased group, like a jury, renders their judgments objective.

I've explained in other posts about the Platonic ideology of Morality/Ethics. We are all born with a part of us that clearly understands Right from Wrong, those that do not are obviously faulty.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I've explained in other posts about the Platonic ideology of Morality/Ethics. We are all born with a part of us that clearly understands Right from Wrong, those that do not are obviously faulty.

I believe differently about right and wrong.

 

[EtuMalku]

I believe differently about right and wrong.

Ok, and how do you believe differently?

 

[leroy]

Wrong, the leader and his son are whorshiped as Gods in North Korea. Not the least bit athiest. And since we are here, neither was Hitler's Germany. I know theists love to incorrectly say Nazis were athiest

The point is that if the emperor of North Korea is really God worshiping would be an ethical and good thing top

This would be an example that an atheist cant do and theist can…..so Hitchens challenge has been answered

 

[joe1776]

I've explained in other posts about the Platonic ideology of Morality/Ethics. We are all born with a part of us that clearly understands Right from Wrong, those that do not are obviously faulty.

If a specific moral action is either right or wrong, then how did you arrive at the conclusion that moral judgments are subjective?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Ok, and how do you believe differently?

I don't believe in any metaphysics like you do and I don't believe in Right or Wrong. I believe in what it is useful for me to believe in. And I accept you do it differently, though we apparently don't agree.

 

[EtuMalku]

If a specific moral action is either right or wrong, then how did you arrive at the conclusion that moral judgments are subjective?

Do you not understand what objective and subjective reality is?

 

[EtuMalku]

I don't believe in any metaphysics like you do and I don't believe in Right or Wrong. I believe in what it is useful for me to believe in. And I accept you do it differently, though we apparently don't agree.

Then you obviously don't understand anything I have posted. Because I am not into metaphysics, I am into science. I am a non-theistic adherent of the LHP and I have repeatedly explained Right & Wrong to be subjective.

 

[Samael_Khan]

Name an ethical statement made or action performed by a person of faith that could not have been made or performed by a nonbeliever.

Name a wicked statement made or action performed precisely because of religious faith?

Worshipping the true God, the creator of the universe (according to certain religions).


I also think that Hitchen's question is like a strawman. Religions don't claim that what a religious person can do ethically, a non religious person cannot do. It is that a religion provides a consistent framework that helps a person who deviates in a certain ethical aspect to be rectified to the ethical path. It also guides people to the right path whereas the absence of religion doesn't. This is according to certain religions.

 

[joe1776]

Do you not understand what objective and subjective reality is?

Explain it to me please.

 

[leroy]

1) Where have I stated I "don’t find anything wrong with that view?" ?
2) Where have I stated that "torturing a baby for fun regardless of anyone’s opinion"?

You seem to be reacting without understanding . . . Am I right to assume you are of one of the Abrahamic faith?

My apologies

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Then you obviously don't understand anything I have posted. Because I am not into metaphysics, I am into science. I am a non-theistic adherent of the LHP and I have repeatedly explained Right & Wrong to be subjective.

Yet, you believe you know there are people, who are faulty. That is not possible if it is subjective. Then right and wrong is in you and different from me, if that is the case. Thus i am not faulty, I am different from your subjective version of right and wrong and that is all.

 

[EtuMalku]

Yet, you believe you know there are people, who are faulty. That is not possible if it is subjective. Then right and wrong is in you and different from me, if that is the case. Thus i am not faulty, I am different from your subjective version of right and wrong and that is all.

I would read up on Plato's First Forms if I were you.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I would read up on Plato's First Forms if I were you.

Don't have to. Already done so. I am a pyrrhonian skeptic.

 

[joe1776]

... I have repeatedly explained Right & Wrong to be subjective.

If an opinion on anything can be described as right or wrong, it can't be subjective. You don't understand the meaning of the word.

 

[Sheldon]

I'm not going to call Hitchens an idiot, because he wasn't. But It's important to understand that he was being paid by the word. All these proselytizers of 'new atheism' are. So it behooves them to keep spouting off more and more of them.

I'm just sayin'.

The word is behove.

If you think Hitchens's atheism was self serving, then you clearly have either not read much of what he wrote, or not understood it.

Ever Hear of Peter Hitchens? He was Christopher's less talented, and much more bigoted brother. A self proclaimed Christian, who writes for the Daily Mail. I think you'll love him.