Hitting children for education/disciplinary purposes...

[Terrywoodenpic]

As a teenager I was only hit once by my stepfather, who had probably and quite justifiably lost patients with me., but had more stupidly hit me.
Unfortunately for him, I was stronger and with faster reactions. a single punch sat him down quietly, and he never mentioned or tried it again.

I can't even remember what it was about, but probably about how I was doing some farm chore.

This is the thing about violence ...What goes around comes around.

 

[SomeRandom]

I think it's entirely circumstantial. Only as a very last resort.
A toddler might need a tiny smack on the hand if they're trying to do something dangerous for example. But distraction or other methods might work better, depending on the specific situation.

I think the key is to be consistent and try not to do things for convenience. By that I mean, if you tell a toddler whining loudly that they're not going to get a chocolate bar for their behavior, but then immediately hand said chocolate bar to the kid once you get too fed up with the noise, what is that teaching the child? That throwing a tantrum will get them what they want.
I have seen this many times at my work, mostly from very embarrassed parents just wanting the kid to shut up. Sometimes it's just clearly overworked parents or parents too lazy to return an item their kid/s have sneaked into the trolley or even just the poor stereotypical "soft touch" father trying to be stern but immediately caving into the demands of their little girl. Whilst I can certainly understand and sympathize (I mean how many people want to be the "bad cop" to their little ones or be seen not doing anything to quell a temper tantrum in public?) I also think that being a little embarrassed is worth imparting discipline when needed. Cave when they're being good, distract them if you can or just dash out to the car as fast as possible. Which also happens quite a lot at my work lol!

When you have rules, stick to them, be consistent and kids will usually respond. Some kids might need a bit of extra discipline and some kids might be the type that you should never hit in your life (like for instance I would never in a million years hit an autistic child. That's just barbaric.)

I would never endorse corporal punishment in a school though. Parents, ehhh, their choice as long as it's not beatings or other types of abuse. But teachers? No. Too much risk of an overworked adult taking out their frustrations on the kids.
Having said that, however, I would not be inclined to condemn a teacher who hits a teen in self defense. Far too often kids are hitting teachers because they think they're untouchable and they kind of are with the lax laws. Public schools, man. If you ain't a tough teacher, you is ****ed. I know this because in grade 10 we kind of chased away our English teacher. Though in my defense, he clearly did not have what it took to be a teacher. No authoritative air about him.

 

[Draka]

My daughter, I just barely have to say a stern word to her and that's it. My son, however, in the past, well...things were quite different. I don't have to do this anymore as he seems to have grown out of the worst of it, but he is ADHD and even just a few years ago he would have fits. He gets easily frustrated with things and it use to lead him into flailing fits (think 2y/o temper tantrum on an epic scale by a 6 year old). Where he would hurt himself or others around him, including his little sister. Sometimes a tap to the butt would be simple enough to snap him out of it (because no amount of words would get through to him) and sometimes his fit would be "out there" enough that I had to literally restrain him with my body. Wrap myself around him and hold him tight while sitting on the floor or laying on his bed until he finally flailed himself out. In those times I wish a smack to the butt would have snapped him out of it. There were times he would flail around enough that he would hit his head and bruise himself up (and others who dared to intervene). I always was kind of afraid that someone would see his bruises and think we were beating him. I would much rather a smack to the butt or a even a light slap to the face to break him from his fits than him actually hurting himself or others. now we've gotten to the point that merely grounding and/or taking things away work as punishments and it tends not to get that far even. Just the threat of it is enough to make them both straighten up.

 

[Quetzal]

Mrs. Q and I very rarely take this course of action. When we do, it is typically to correct something that puts Little Q in danger (running into a street, parking lot, etc). In which case, it is important that he immediately understands he cannot do that. For other stuff, like not picking up toys, being a toddler, or refusing to get me a beer at halftime, a stern word usually covers it.

 

[Sultan Of Swing]

refusing to get me a beer at halftime

 

[Quetzal]

Some might argue this is more important than staying close in a parking lot. To each their own.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I find that being smarter than children allows me to shape and direct their behavior quite efficiently without having to resort to violence or intimidation of any kind. Of course, if such methods aren't employed from the start, they may not work on children who have already established numerous bad templates and patterns of behavior and interaction.

I do sympathize with parents who do have children that actually have some kind of neurological or developmental condition which makes them unable to be conditioned effectively through positive methods. However, in my experience, when I've seen parents who claim this in action, they often seem to be very inept at listening, redirecting, avoiding conflict, empathizing, and all seem to display a lack of patience with children that I can't identify with. Then again, maybe they didn't start out that way.

 

[Draka]

I find that being smarter than children allows me to shape and direct their behavior quite efficiently without having to resort to violence or intimidation of any kind. Of course, if such methods aren't employed from the start, they may not work on children who have already established numerous bad templates and patterns of behavior and interaction.

I do sympathize with parents who do have children that actually have some kind of neurological or developmental condition which makes them unable to be conditioned effectively through positive methods. However, in my experience, when I've seen parents who claim this in action, they often seem to be very inept at listening, redirecting, avoiding conflict, empathizing, and all seem to display a lack of patience with children that I can't identify with. Then again, maybe they didn't start out that way.

Tell me that again when you have seen a child erupt spontaneously over two Lego blocks not fitting together the way they want or their sister picking up and playing with a toy they had put down 10 minutes ago. Full out kicking, screaming, flailing against a wall or the floor and throwing themselves and things within reach around. As I've said, I HAD to physically restrain my son at times. Trying to hold him down while getting him to calm down and listen to reason. When you have a child who can hurt themselves or others because they can't cope with certain things in their mind sometimes physical action must be taken in order to get to the verbal at all. They get into a "zone" that they have to be brought out of first before real communication can begin. If that means having to pull my child down like a wrestler and wrap my arms and legs around him while he flails about, so be it. I don't have that problem anymore with him, so something apparently worked and has changed. I had to get physical just to get verbal. Once I got verbal enough times with him and had enough discussions about how to deal with frustration and coping then things got better, but I couldn't get that far without first dealing with his physical outbreaks.

 

[Quetzal]

I find that being smarter than children allows me to shape and direct their behavior quite efficiently without having to resort to violence or intimidation of any kind. Of course, if such methods aren't employed from the start, they may not work on children who have already established numerous bad templates and patterns of behavior and interaction.

I do sympathize with parents who do have children that actually have some kind of neurological or developmental condition which makes them unable to be conditioned effectively through positive methods. However, in my experience, when I've seen parents who claim this in action, they often seem to be very inept at listening, redirecting, avoiding conflict, empathizing, and all seem to display a lack of patience with children that I can't identify with. Then again, maybe they didn't start out that way.

Great on paper, but I find it harder in application.

 

[Draka]

Great on paper, but I find it harder in application.

It is harder. And what gets me is the automatic assumption that the parent must have screwed up somewhere along the line. I've never had issues like that on disciplining my daughter, so it isn't just me being a bad parent. My son has been diagnosed with his issues, by medical professionals. His behavior quirks seen by his teachers as well. It's not a matter of just parenting, it's that children differ in temperaments, some far more than others.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Great on paper, but I find it harder in application.

Maybe I'm lucky. It's what all the in-laws like to say, anyway.

 

[Koldo]

In an ideal world, no parent would ever have to make use of physical strength.
We don't live in an ideal world. Enough said.

 

[First Baseman]

Proverbs 13:24 New International Version (NIV)
24 Whoever spares the rod hates their children,
but the one who loves their children is careful to discipline them.

 

[Quetzal]

Proverbs 13:24 New International Version (NIV)
24 Whoever spares the rod hates their children,
but the one who loves their children is careful to discipline them.

Yeah, it will be a dark, cold day on the sun before I look to the Old Testament for parental advice.

 

[Augustus]

My parents rarely hit me when I was little, but if they did then I realised I'd overstepped the mark.

If my mum shouted at me I'd feel angry, if she hit me I'd feel sad that I'd upset her.

I think it is very effective if carried out with limited force and within strict parameters, not as something to inflict pain or as a generic punishment for being naughty.

I certainly don't see it as constituting a lack of parental ability.

 

[First Baseman]

Yeah, it will be a dark, cold day on the sun before I look to the Old Testament for parental advice.

Yeah. Like Proverbs 31, real horrible stuff:

8 Speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves,
for the rights of all who are destitute.
9 Speak up and judge fairly;
defend the rights of the poor and needy.

 

[Quetzal]

Yeah. Like Proverbs 31, real horrible stuff:

8 Speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves,
for the rights of all who are destitute.
9 Speak up and judge fairly;
defend the rights of the poor and needy.

I'm not going to get into a stupid cherry picking contest with you. I have a feeling you will beat me with experience.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I'm not going to get into a stupid cherry picking contest with you. I have a feeling you will beat me with experience.

Subtle.

 

[First Baseman]

I'm not going to get into a stupid cherry picking contest with you. I have a feeling you will beat me with experience.

Just showing you that you shouldn't condemn the entire OT over a few verses or so that you don't like. But you'll probably condemn it anyway just because you don't believe it. Oh well.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

When I first think of hitting I child, I think of hard spankings that hurt and even a belt (which I did get once). I also think of it in a way the couple of times I have heard a child terrified and pleading with their parents not to hit them, which really bothers me, as does hearing any parent telling their child "I'm gonna whoop that ***!" I'm also not too found of the idea of having to use corporal punishment to instill a sense of behavior and respect into a child. And, ultimately, it is illegal to hit an adult, so why should it ever be considered OK to hit a child, who is far less capable of defending themselves? I don't consider it ever OK to hit a child, and even children who are ill behaved who pretty much every one else says they need an "*** whooping" I can get them to behave for me not through violence but through very strict rules, discipline, and consequences that are consistently enforced.